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Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!!

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

So, due to David Attenborough bringing up the problem of plastic pollution on Blue Planet 2 (maybe Wink ), the government have jumped happily in with a 25p tax on a cup of coffee in a throwaway mug. The supermarket bag tax times 5 Shocked .

When in doubt, tax the plebs

On the news it seems we only have a couple of recycle plants in the country capable of recycling these cups but they are hardly getting any as it's cheaper for councils to throw them in landfill than send them to these plants.

When you see the shit China, India and co chuck out does it even matter what we do.

I don't drink coffee and can't remember the last time I set foot in a Costas, Neros or the like so I haven't really got an axe to grind in this case except I think its an absolute liberty by the government.

So, good idea? unwarranted price increase?

I'm worried that everything they want to control, they just try to price out people. Fags, booze, plastic bags, plastic cups, vehicles in cities, even more for older vehicles in cities etc.

Where is it going to end. A sex tax? A going out to the pub tax. A being a honky tax in our diverse society (tm Diane A) Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
When you see the shit China, India and co chuck out does it even matter what we do.

Globally? No. Locally? Sure.

If it comes with a diktat that Costabucks must let you provide your own lead free ethically thrown fair trade sustainable earthenware pottery mug, I'm fine with it.

If it's just another unavoidable charge then it'll have no effect at all, other than to funnel more money from sad addicts to corrvpt scvm.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dealing with a non-problem to convince themselves they're tackling the actual problem with is general overuse of plastics in packaging.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The need to walk around drinking hot coffee out of a toddler-friendly sippee cup has always baffled me. Why do people do it?

AFAIC coffee means a break, a sit down, with a nice china or preferably porcelain cup. A pottery mug will do if I'm slumming it.

I won't drink coffee out of a paper cup, I detest them. Not for environmental reasons (and I did see the dead baby whale being carried round by its mother having been murdered by a paper beaker) but because it's quite simply, uncivilised.
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Last edited by Tracey Suntan-King on 21:36 - 10 Jan 2018; edited 1 time in total
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get tea every day in a chuck away cup.

An extra 25p would be an extra 25% for me. That's quite a bit. Probably not enough to put me off mind.

BP2 did make me feel a bit guilty about plastic, maybe a few more series will do the trick. Let's hope Attenborough doesn't kick the (reusable) bucket before the desired level of plastic use is reached Laughing
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Chuffin Nora
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
uncivilized

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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

If it comes with a diktat that Costabucks must let you provide your own lead free ethically thrown fair trade sustainable earthenware pottery mug, I'm fine with it.

If it's just another unavoidable charge then it'll have no effect at all, other than to funnel more money from sad addicts to corrvpt scvm.


As i understand it, you don't get charged the +25p if you provide your own mug.

A few places already knock something off if you take a reusable mug in.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
I get tea every day in a chuck away cup.

An extra 25p would be an extra 25% for me. That's quite a bit. Probably not enough to put me off mind.

BP2 did make me feel a bit guilty about plastic, maybe a few more series will do the trick. Let's hope Attenborough doesn't kick the (reusable) bucket before the desired level of plastic use is reached Laughing


I have to agree with TSK in that tea in a paper mug is just horrible. I just can't drink it in anything other than a china cup or mug. It even tastes shit in one of those travel mugs.
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arry
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

I have to agree with TSK in that tea in a paper mug is just horrible. I just can't drink it in anything other than a china cup or mug. It even tastes shit in one of those travel mugs.


It's alright if it's brewed in something proper and transferred to paper cup, although still not ideal. Brewed in a paper cup is nonsense - but then is brewed in a non warmed mug with the milk in it first; philistines!
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I don't drink coffee

It's how they control you Shhh!
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Chuffin Nora
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PostPosted: 00:31 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

Last edited by Tracey Suntan-King on 20:36 - 10 Jan 2018; edited 1 time in total wrote:
uncivilised

Better latte than never! Thumbs Up

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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 00:42 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

Chuffin Nora wrote:
Last edited by Tracey Suntan-King on 20:36 - 10 Jan 2018; edited 1 time in total wrote:
uncivilised

Better latte than never! Thumbs Up

Razz


I've always bean careful with my spellings.

You can stop stirring now Very Happy
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 00:58 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

When you see the shit China, India and co chuck out does it even matter what we do.


Laughing Erm China and India deal with our rubbish, literally. Well no it's your rubbish as I'm back over here now Wink

There are all the usual public recycle schemes and all that malarkey in China. As well as this they used to take tons of litter from the UK and make it into stuff, but they've recently decided they don't need to stoop so low for their earnings any more. British recycling companies are now scuppered and are having to look for new poor people to fob their extravagant amounts of waste off to. That brings us onto India.

India will probably take a lot of it instead. India (and Bangladesh) already does a lot of our (the world's) recycling as well - oil tankers and cruise ships

And here's this:

https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/2012/06/blogs/graphic-detail/20120609_wom915.png

I see an interesting correlation between 'global economic standing', 'severity of consumerism' and 'amount of waste produced per person'.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 01:21 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Polarbear wrote:

When you see the shit China, India and co chuck out does it even matter what we do.


China is great shit

https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/2012/06/blogs/graphic-detail/20120609_wom915.png

I see an interesting correlation between 'global economic standing', 'severity of consumerism' and 'amount of waste produced per person'.


That's per person and just solid waste. Totally misleading because out of chinas population of 1. whatever billion a huge number are peasants who live in the middle of shitistan and the only packaging they see is the skin their animals come in. Which conveniently reduces the average per head to a 'look how good we are' number.

At the industrial end the Chinese are the worlds biggest polluters nowadays.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 01:33 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Lets lighten the discussions... Latte levy!!! Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

That's per person and just solid waste. Totally misleading because out of chinas population of 1. whatever billion a huge number are peasants who live in the middle of shitistan and the only packaging they see is the skin their animals come in. Which conveniently reduces the average per head to a 'look how good we are' number.



Alright, have a play on this instead: https://www.atlas.d-waste.com/

I never meant China/India were necessarily better, just that you're quite off the mark if you think saintly western nations can claim to produce the least waste while simultaneously being the most intensive consumers on the planet.

Quote:
At the industrial end the Chinese are the worlds biggest polluters nowadays.


Well waste and pollution are two different things.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 02:04 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point was that compared with the shit that is thrown out by China and India, which in total quantity is far far more than our little country produces, is a tax on coffee cups a valid and useful application to reduce pollution/rubbish.

Stinkers answered it best with ....

Dealing with a non-problem to convince themselves they're tackling the actual problem
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 02:57 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
My point was that compared with the shit that is thrown out by China and India, which in total quantity is far far more than our little country produces, is a tax on coffee cups a valid and useful application to reduce pollution/rubbish.



Well a nation of 64 million people isn't exactly insignificant.

Funny thing now is that EU legislation can and did work towards remedying such things at the continental level, so there'd be no need for the 'small fish, big sea' argument. Now that we're soon to leave all that, our government needs to maintain the impetus and come up with its own ideas for everything.

More on topic - To be honest I don't see the big deal with putting a tax on these coffee cup things. Throwaway culture is at chronic levels, it's probably good to get people thinking more about how things can be used and/or reused before being needlessly chucked in the bin.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
is a tax on coffee cups a valid and useful application to reduce pollution/rubbish.

If done correctly, then yes. Yes, it is.

The plastic bag tax (inflicted on us Scotch first, Act of Union, freeeeedom, etc) has actually worked, because:

1) Consumers have to make a conscious choice to pay it.
2) Habitually carrying a bag with you isn't a huge deal.


Lord Percy wrote:
good to get people thinking more about how things can be used and/or reused before being needlessly chucked in the bin.

Sure, if...

If it's just slapped on the price by default and you actually have to pipe up and say "Not so hasty, my fine ladyfellow, I have brought my own receptacle for your fine bean juicings," like some CAMRA tosser with a pewter tankard, probably not.

Retailers must be required to ask if you want it, and it must be listed as a separate charge. Doubtless some 20-person quango will take 6 months and millions of lunchdollah to come up with that recommendation, but parliament.gov can have the correct answer now for the low, low price of free.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since 2014 the UK has been brushing the plastic waste mountain under the carpet by exporting millions of tonnes of plastic waste to China. The real reason plastic waste is now an issue is that China is now not accepting plastic waste.

What's pissing me off is, as a consumer there's very little you can do about it, it's near on impossible to avoid plastic packaging, even on the most mundane of products.

Rolling Eyes Of course extra tax for the end user is going to solve the problem, NOT, FFS! Rolling Eyes Fair enough if there was an alternative, but there isn't!

I don't understand, in the current media coverage, how the big drinks manufacturers have escaped criticism. They took a purely economic decision to move from glass to plastic bottles, yet there's not a peep about that!
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
Since 2014 the UK has been brushing the plastic waste mountain under the carpet by exporting millions of tonnes of plastic waste to China.


Or up in flames if numerous recycle centre fires are anything to go by.

Now we have this retarded bag tax they can stop putting fucking holes in the crap carrier bags so we can actually use them for other tasks properly.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
Now we have this retarded bag tax

We've had it for years. It's worked. Unlike so many ecotithes (fuel duty being the worst) it's actually effective.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 14:17 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have replaced my huge collection of used carrier bags with an equally large bag of used once 10p bags for life. Laughing These use
more plastic than the cheap ones do and I still end up buying several each time I shop. Make them a pound each
and you may see some changes in behaviour. An extra 50p on bags when you've just spent 120 quid on groceries is fuckall
tbh. But if those 5 bags cost an additional fiver... Thinking
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, the carrier bag tax is fine, the consumer has a choice, pay for a bag every time you shop or buy a bag that'll last a bit longer.
Putting aside what the 5p per bag levy is actually used for, at least there is an alternative.
However the is very little or no choice when it comes to how the products you buy are, originally packaged!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our Asda leave piles of these 'for life' all over the store. People pick them up and use them and I doubt of anyone actually buys them.

I go with my trolley and zapper and pickup however many I need if I forget mine from home. Wifie calls me a thief. Ronnie Biggs would be impressed Cool
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