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Any 'Tyre' / 'TyreToTravel' satnav gurus in here?

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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Any 'Tyre' / 'TyreToTravel' satnav gurus in here? Reply with quote

Couldn't decide whether to stick this here on in 'Geek Zone', but hey...

After a lot of aggro trying to transfer satnav routes (whether downloaded from somewhere or prepared by myself) to my Garmin, I settled on Tyre software (or 'TyreToTravel' as now seems to be known, presumably to make its name a bit more searchable online) and GPX files. Now, Tyre provides 3 import options for GPX files, whereby you have to select one of "Waypoints" "Route points" or "Route tracks", and I know that I can't select 'Route tracks' or I'll end up with about a million datapoints appearing on the satnav, with the whole screen obscured by bloody little flags.

https://i.imgur.com/dBWbYSK.jpg

However, invariably I find some of these import options greyed out, and that there's no way to import as waypoints or route points. However, if I open one of these GPX files in a text editor, I can see there are hundreds of entries like:

<trkpt lat="53.25284" lon="-2.15687"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt>

... and I have found that if I just manually delete all these trackpoints, the file then works fine in Tyre and on my Garmin (and the filesize helpfully comes down from about 200Kb to about 2Kb).

Can anyone explain a bit about this to me? This manual editing malarkey is a faff and I don't understand why I keep having to do it. And why do these GPX files include all these (apparently pointless, to me) trackpoints? And what is the difference between "Way points" and "Route points"? Do I need to be aware of this? If I understood this stuff better it might improve my routing experience!
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

your sat-nav is garmine.. ok.. not get life time updates with that ?

route points are recorded by the sat-nav as you move along every time you direction changes by a degree...

way points are what you make on the route planner to make the sat-nav follow a certain direction..

route tracks are a record of where you have been .. usin a number of route points strung together...

ps.. i dont use tyre because it needs a live internet connection..
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Last edited by Copycat73 on 21:35 - 14 Jan 2018; edited 2 times in total
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember going through this malarkey a few years back with my TomTom, it’s a right pain for a luddite like me. I now use a app on my phone call Scenic, it’s so much easier to use, you can literally copy and import GPX routes in a few seconds.

This might help you...

https://www.globeriders.com/article_pages/article08_RTW/article08_rtw.shtml
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raesewell
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you recording the routes on the device and then transferring them to Tyre?
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 12:27 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies all - really helpful

Copycat73 wrote:
your sat-nav is garmin.. ok.. not get life time updates with that ?
Yes I do; but are lifetime updates relevant?

JAMSXR wrote:
Thank you - favourited - looks a very good article which I'll go back and digest later!

raesewell wrote:
Are you recording the routes on the device and then transferring them to Tyre?
No, never; but that doesn't discount the possibility that some of my downloaded files have been prepared that way
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Thanks for the replies all - really helpful

Copycat73 wrote:
your sat-nav is garmin.. ok.. not get life time updates with that ?
Yes I do; but are lifetime updates relevant?


The life time updates will put basecamp on your computer along with all maps... this software is specifically designed for your garmine and it works .... it will allow you to see where you have been ... make way points enabling manufacture of routes .. all direct to the plugged in sat nav.. piss aboutwit tyre if you must .. when you get sick come back and install basecamp... Thumbs Up Dance!
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
The life time updates will put basecamp on your computer along with all maps.

Basecamp! Shocked Believe me, I have struggled with that bloody thing for days on end, and although I don't doubt it would be the best program to use I just find it far too complicated and unwieldy, and have pretty much given up with it. But what I sometimes do use it for is to upload routes I've created in Tyre (which is based on Google Maps) to check they work properly in Garmin's maps; because there are often route discrepancies meaning that I've found myself directed onto a dual carriageway when I was expecting a lovely country road. Adding in another waypoint or two in Tyre gets my route back on track.

But I'm intrigued by your statement above - are you saying that I should be able to have the full version of the Garmin maps on my computer to use in Basecamp? Because that's another reason I hate Basecamp, as unless I go and find my satnav and plug it in to the computer (and wait while it connects and loads up its map), all I see on Basecamp is the default, low-detail (ie useless) version of its map. I experimented (and failed!) with installing a virtual drive on my computer and copying my Garmin map on to that.

How do you do it then?!
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
life time updates

How do you do it then?!


when instalin click options ..
it will allow you to install on computer or
sat-nav or both.... will be installed on hard drive

unfortunatly i have had to use tyre... mates both have early tom tom things ...one of them are buyin garmin...
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
when instalin click options ..
it will allow you to install on computer or sat-nav or both.... will be installed on hard drive

Thanks for this. I've just been playing with this for a bit and the true horror of Basecamp has come back to me now. What happened was, when I originally tried installing it about 18 months ago, I did use this method but wanted to put the maps on a NAS device, to avoid clogging up my laptop which only has a small SDD. Therefore I told it to put the maps into a subfolder on "P:\", which it happily accepted, and spent ages downloading maps before finally coming back with an non-specific installation error. After some considerable effort I discovered Basecamp will not let you bung its maps on a networked drive (that was the reason for experimenting with a virtual drive, that I mentioned upthread).

Anyway the fun part is that having done this and given you the finger, Garmin Express doesn't let you change the filepath you specified for installation of the files; so my folder on P:\ appears to be hardwired in. I've just uninstalled Garmin Express and Basecamp, manually deleted all the Garmin data folders, and even searched the registry, but I can't find out how or where it's been saved - and if I reinstall Garmin Express from scratch, the non-editable (and now non-existent!) folder on P:\ appears as the destination.

So, as of now, I can't actually use BaseCamp at all any more... I can't remember how I solved this last time! Confused
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raesewell
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go here and take a look
www.myrouteapp.com
You need to register but it's free. A lot of the most useful features require a membership but you will get the feel for it.
Also there is ITN converter which is free and easy to use
https://benichou-software.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=4&lang=en

Let me know how you get on.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

raesewell wrote:
Go here and take a look
www.myrouteapp.com

Yes I looked at that one too a while ago - it's basically the updated version of Tyre, isn't it? Not sure whether the advantages it claims are worthwhile for my usage - and having finally got Tyre working pretty well for me I'm reluctant to change!

TBH the only real issue with Tyre (other than the relatively minor upthread glitches) seems to be the fact that it's based on Google Maps, whereas Garmin isn't, which means there are sometimes differences in how Tyre picks routes, as I mentioned earlier. Guessing that myrouteapp must also use Google Maps too, though?

raesewell wrote:

Thanks, nice - will have some of that!
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raesewell
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MyRouteApp if far far better than Tyre.
With the Gold version you can use the Tomtom or Garmin algorithms to compare routes. There is an Android and IOS version as well as the online version. So whilst it is maintained by the same company as Tyre it is NOT Tyre. I like Tyre and use it all the time but I am slowly erring towards MyRouteApp as my go to route planner.

You should take a look at ITN too it's an easy to use planner and can save into many more formats than Tyre.
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raesewell
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 19 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you get the problem sorted.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 19 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Copycat73 wrote:
The life time updates will put basecamp on your computer along with all maps.

Basecamp! Shocked Believe me, I have struggled with that bloody thing for days on end, and although I don't doubt it would be the best program to use I just find it far too complicated and unwieldy, and have pretty much given up with it. But what I sometimes do use it for is to upload routes I've created in Tyre (which is based on Google Maps) to check they work properly in Garmin's maps; because there are often route discrepancies meaning that I've found myself directed onto a dual carriageway when I was expecting a lovely country road. Adding in another waypoint or two in Tyre gets my route back on track.

But I'm intrigued by your statement above - are you saying that I should be able to have the full version of the Garmin maps on my computer to use in Basecamp? Because that's another reason I hate Basecamp, as unless I go and find my satnav and plug it in to the computer (and wait while it connects and loads up its map), all I see on Basecamp is the default, low-detail (ie useless) version of its map. I experimented (and failed!) with installing a virtual drive on my computer and copying my Garmin map on to that.

How do you do it then?!


Basecamp is shite.

Since Garmin stopped offering Mapquest their mapping apps have fallen off the edge of the planet.

Previously you could copy a map image and cover it with map coordinates for places with no GPS maps and rough it on that. For smaller areas it was fine.

I have several Garmin satnavs the first one was the Quest two (for motorcycles) Garmin Basecamp will not connect to it. Wankers at Garmin do not do joined up thinking.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 19 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Basecamp is shite.


I use it .. and it works as it should ..
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 19 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
but I can't find out how or where it's been saved - and if I reinstall Garmin Express from scratch, the non-editable (and now non-existent!) folder on P:\ appears as the destination....

So, as of now, I can't actually use BaseCamp at all any more... I can't remember how I solved this last time! Confused


overwrite ... copy past this into the directory destination C:\ProgramData\Garmin\Maps
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 19 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

raesewell wrote:
Did you get the problem sorted

You mean with Tyre? That wasn't so much a problem, more a need/want to understand the GPX file construction I think, which I'll now do when I have a mo.

The Basecamp issue is something else (actually a new problem really, after just trying and failing to reinstall it on my local hard drive! Rolling Eyes It does still seem to be worth having, simply to be able to check that Google Maps is routing the same as Garmin.

Copycat73 wrote:
Freddyfruitbat wrote:
but I can't find out how or where it's been saved - and if I reinstall Garmin Express from scratch, the non-editable (and now non-existent!) folder on P:\ appears as the destination.... So, as of now, I can't actually use BaseCamp at all any more... I can't remember how I solved this last time! Confused

overwrite ... copy past this into the directory destination C:\ProgramData\Garmin\Maps

But that's the thing - I can't - it's not editable, see (and believe me I've actually tried!)

https://i.imgur.com/5kG2IBA.jpg?1

That P:\ drive address appears to be hard coded in to my computer; don't understand it.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 08:48 - 20 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to try again when a new map update is out .... had some thin similar happen ....
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 20 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not install basecamp on your pc to test, rather than complicating things with P drive
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 20 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugeye_bob wrote:
Why not install basecamp on your pc to test, rather than complicating things with P drive

Suggest you re read the thread.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 00:31 - 20 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

raesewell wrote:
MyRouteApp if far far better than Tyre.
With the Gold version you can use the Tomtom or Garmin algorithms to compare routes. There is an Android and IOS version as well as the online version. So whilst it is maintained by the same company as Tyre it is NOT Tyre. I like Tyre and use it all the time but I am slowly erring towards MyRouteApp as my go to route planner.


So having had success with Tyre, I've had another look at MyRouteApp (if I'm honest, mainly because they've recently announced they are canning their lifetime one-off purchase scheme for GOLD in favour of an annual subscription, so I thought now would be the time to check it out!). I can see it's got lots of clear advantages over Tyre, and having played around with creating routes on my PC with it, I'd really like to get it working on my satnav (a Garmin 340LM). But struggling big time.

With Tyre, I just export my routes as "GPX" and job's a good'un. The file works fine - it contains waypoints, but no trackpoints. But MyRouteApp gives me two GPX options - "old" (v1.0), which uses routepoints and trackpoints, and "new" (v1.1) which uses shaping points and trackpoints. As far as i can tell I'm supposed to use v1.1 with my own Garmin.

However, neither work properly. v1.1 files have me travelling in the wrong direction, with Sally Satnav barking random instructions at me; completely useless. I don't understand why I need the trackpoints in the file - with Tyre, I am just directed from one waypoint to the next; if I overshoot or miss a turn, the Garmin recalculates the route appropriately and sends me back to the missed waypoint, which is fine. As far as I can tell, when using trackpoints (and I have my 'off-route recalculation' switched off for that, as instructed) I should end up following a breadcrumb trail, if it worked. Though I don't know what happens if I miss a turn with that - I'm lost for evermore, I expect?

Would be great to hear if anyone's got any insight into this?
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raesewell
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 20 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are best to use the old gpx 1.0 files the newer file contain geo data that is not needed.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 20 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyre is a sorry excuse for a software package of about the standard I'd expect from a 2nd year software engineering coursework. It's slow, the interface blocks on poorly threaded backend code and the ideosyncracies of the UI are infuriating. But it does just about work.

It looks like when you're recording routes you're getting regular trackpoints marking your time and location along the route with very fine granularity. This is great if you want to know how fast you were going, and you can trace this without needing a map.

GPX is thereabouts XML so filtering it programatically is fairly easy. Try https://gist.github.com/dal/4416699 on for size.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40835329/how-to-ignore-an-xml-element-in-the-xquery-output is not a standalone solution.

I guess the question is whether you have enough cold pizza to feed a pet code monkey.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 22 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I have an EASY solution. Download sublime text (sublimetext.com), it's a nagware programmer's text editor but isn't as scary and holy war as emacs or vim.

Open the .gpx in sublime text. You'll notice it paints the text pretty colours that mean things. Click "Find" on the menubar, choose "replace", you'll get a new toolbar at the bottom. Click on the button that says ".*" (tooltip is "regular expression") the type "<trkpt.+ trkpt>" into the find box and leave replace blank and hit 'replace all'

File -> save if you got the desired result. Ctrl+z if you didn't. Any problems PM me.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 24 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

talkToTheHat wrote:
I have an EASY solution. Download sublime text

Thanks a lot for this - I reckon this might really help. First off though; it's actually MyRoute-app that I'm playing with now - I'm trying to move on from Tyre.

Now, I ran a test GPX file from MyRoute-App through Sublime Text, but I just get "Unable to find <trkpt.+ trkpt>" However if I search for just "<trkpt." I get numerous hits, no problem - is that text string definitely correct?

(I don't know if it's related or not, but whereas Tyre GPX files appear in Sublime Text in pretty colours and nicely formatted, with MrRouteApp files, apart from the first line, the entire file appears in a solid, unformatted block of text in default white, as follows:

Quote:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<gpx version="1.1" creator="MyRouteApp" xsi:schemaLocation="https://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 https://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd https://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/WaypointExtension/v1 https://www8.garmin.com/xmlschemas/WaypointExtensionv1.xsd
[...]
</name><trkseg><trkpt lon="-2.139540" lat="53.256600"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.139510" lat="53.256640"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.138240" lat="53.257810"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.138170" lat="53.257880"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137970" lat="53.258050"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137570" lat="53.258390"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137550" lat="53.258430"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137530" lat="53.258460"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137530" lat="53.258510"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137500" lat="53.258590"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137500" lat="53.258610"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137460" lat="53.258810"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137340" lat="53.259690"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137370" lat="53.259770"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137380" lat="53.259800"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137390" lat="53.259830"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137390" lat="53.259840"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137380" lat="53.259890"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137380" lat="53.259890"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137390" lat="53.259900"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137420" lat="53.259900"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137580" lat="53.259860"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137650" lat="53.259850"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137750" lat="53.259840"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137820" lat="53.259830"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt><trkpt lon="-2.137940" lat="53.259840"><ele>0.000000</ele></trkpt>
[...]

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