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Possible diagnosis help please

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TheGazWaz
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Possible diagnosis help please Reply with quote

Good afternoon all,

Just bought me an immaculate 03 plate GSXR1000 with 14k on the clock. I've had the bike just under a week and bought it from a dealer so I have 3 months warranty on it.

I have an issue with the bike of which I've informed the dealer and they're bending over backwards thus far to help so i'm dropping it off this saturday with them and they can have it for the week as the weather is pants at the moment so i won't be riding anyway.

I'd like to get some ideas before I take it in so I'm ready for whatever shpeel they give me.

The issue is under load there's a rattle/tapping sound. It's quite loud when the engine is cold but can still be heard when warmed up but much much quieter.

If I pull in the clutch it goes away. If I rev the engine out of gear it's not there. Only under load does it happen. You can only really hear it in first and second because wind and engine noise cover it after that.

The bike runs really smooth and has zero other issues. I'm putting top notch fuel in it. Oil level is spot on. Everything is standard on the bike.

Any ideas guys n galls.

Cheers

Gary
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Went like this.. 43 years old(2013) decided to do CBT to get a 125 for new job. Bought 2011 YBR, loved it for three months then hated it because it was too god damn slow. Did DAS 4 months later then bought RF600 Loved it, sold it bought Bandit 1200(K3). EFFIN lOVED IT. Wanted something a bit more sporty so got Triumph Sprint ST 955i (53). Not sporty enough so now on my GSXR 1000 K3 and absolutely love it. 1 year down the line, nearly died way too many times on this bike. Sold it. Had a 6 month break. Missed biking so now, Aug 2019 have a 1999 ZX9r. What a beauty she is too.
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
under load there's a rattle/tapping sound.


Top end? Rattling? Tappets? Just a thought!
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pulling the clutch in makes the noise go away?
Start looking at the clutch!
Clutch basket est clonk?
Clutch bearings est clonk?
What condition are the plates and clutch springs in?

I can’t see how pulling in the clutch lever would make tappet noise go away?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Possible diagnosis help please Reply with quote

TheGazWaz wrote:
Oil level is spot on.

With the bike on the side stand, or with it level?
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TheGazWaz
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Possible diagnosis help please Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
TheGazWaz wrote:
Oil level is spot on.

With the bike on the side stand, or with it level?


Bike level. Got the missus to sit on it. I'm hoping it's just valve adjustment or something along those line.
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Went like this.. 43 years old(2013) decided to do CBT to get a 125 for new job. Bought 2011 YBR, loved it for three months then hated it because it was too god damn slow. Did DAS 4 months later then bought RF600 Loved it, sold it bought Bandit 1200(K3). EFFIN lOVED IT. Wanted something a bit more sporty so got Triumph Sprint ST 955i (53). Not sporty enough so now on my GSXR 1000 K3 and absolutely love it. 1 year down the line, nearly died way too many times on this bike. Sold it. Had a 6 month break. Missed biking so now, Aug 2019 have a 1999 ZX9r. What a beauty she is too.
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raesewell
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending in whether it's a rattle or a tap. If it's a rattle, it could be the cam chain or tensioner. If it's a tap it may well be valve/tappet adjustment needed. Just my tuppence worth.
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TheGazWaz
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Raesemaell,

I'd say it's probably more a high pitched tap/ticking. Hard to explain really.
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Went like this.. 43 years old(2013) decided to do CBT to get a 125 for new job. Bought 2011 YBR, loved it for three months then hated it because it was too god damn slow. Did DAS 4 months later then bought RF600 Loved it, sold it bought Bandit 1200(K3). EFFIN lOVED IT. Wanted something a bit more sporty so got Triumph Sprint ST 955i (53). Not sporty enough so now on my GSXR 1000 K3 and absolutely love it. 1 year down the line, nearly died way too many times on this bike. Sold it. Had a 6 month break. Missed biking so now, Aug 2019 have a 1999 ZX9r. What a beauty she is too.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGazWaz wrote:
Cheers Raesemaell,

I'd say it's probably more a high pitched tap/ticking. Hard to explain really.


Ticking could be a small leak at the exhaust header.
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Got the missus to sit on it.
Wink

Big end - nice problem to have (apparently!).
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TheGazWaz
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris45 wrote:
Quote:
Got the missus to sit on it.
Wink

Big end - nice problem to have (apparently!).


I really hope it's not big end. They should still fix it under warranty but I'd be concerned they'd try and cover it up with thicker oil or something.

Big end and 14k. Can't be surely. Even if the bike has been raced all it's life it shouldn't go at these mileages I wouldn't have thought.
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Went like this.. 43 years old(2013) decided to do CBT to get a 125 for new job. Bought 2011 YBR, loved it for three months then hated it because it was too god damn slow. Did DAS 4 months later then bought RF600 Loved it, sold it bought Bandit 1200(K3). EFFIN lOVED IT. Wanted something a bit more sporty so got Triumph Sprint ST 955i (53). Not sporty enough so now on my GSXR 1000 K3 and absolutely love it. 1 year down the line, nearly died way too many times on this bike. Sold it. Had a 6 month break. Missed biking so now, Aug 2019 have a 1999 ZX9r. What a beauty she is too.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Possible diagnosis help please Reply with quote

TheGazWaz wrote:
Only under load does it happen.


Only when under load or only when moving, they are different things?
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fast wooly
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If its only doing it under load then it sounds like its "pinking" which is either a weak mixture or over advanced ignition.The weak mixture could be an air-leak and the ignition could be incorrectly set ignition pickup,I'd start looking for air leaks first!Is the bike standard? or does it have a race can fitted?if it does then this could cause the weak mixture problem.

Wooly
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I really hope it's not big end.


Dinnae worry pal, everyone else got the gist of it Smile

Top end rattle or noisey cam chain, technically the bike "runs" and is road worthy. Simply means you have to be very diplomatic with the supplier and say you're not happy, will they check it over. If it's that bad they had an obligation to say as much in the advert. Did they? If not you've good cause to say "do something about it". Otherwise let them look at it, see if they can improve/resolve the problem. And don't let them fob you off with the old story - "it's a cold engine and they all do that" shit.

Chris.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the speed of the tapping increase with rev sped or road speed?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A rattle which goes away when the clutch is pulled in indicates a problem with the clutch. Could be a little loose around the backplate from popping wheelies.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
A rattle which goes away when the clutch is pulled in indicates a problem with the clutch. Could be a little loose around the backplate from popping wheelies.


My starter for 10 would be a badly notched basket and friction plates. I bet it'll come back with a new clutch cover gasket on and be quieter but not totally quiet. Indicating the plates have been replaced but the basket has not.

Suziki clutches always used to be famous for rattling because of a shot thrust bearing on the pressure plate where most just have a bush, it was of no real importance and could be safely ignored.

I was also wondering if it could be chain noise. Either final drive or do GSXRs have a primary chain?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

No they are gear primary. Even the oil boilers were.
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TheGazWaz
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all.

End can is standard. I thought about pinking so I've gone for some Hi Ron optimax fuel stuff and it didn't make a difference.

I must admit I struggled to here the sound with the back wheel off the ground but it was in the garage so the engine noise was louder I think.

Like I say the bike looks mint and I know they're good at cleaning things up in these places but it's clearly not seen bad weather. I'm pretty sure who ever owned it before me rode it hard because the tires that were on it were VERY well used. When I picked it up they'd put a new set of Qualifiers on it for me Smile.

The clutch would make sense as well I suppose but when you pull the clutch in there is no longer a load on the engine so that would possibly indicate pinking.

Apart from this rattle the engine sounds beautiful. I can't believe the Growl you get from the Ram air on these bikes. I had a Triumph Sprint 955i before this. It was a good bike but completely different league really.
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Went like this.. 43 years old(2013) decided to do CBT to get a 125 for new job. Bought 2011 YBR, loved it for three months then hated it because it was too god damn slow. Did DAS 4 months later then bought RF600 Loved it, sold it bought Bandit 1200(K3). EFFIN lOVED IT. Wanted something a bit more sporty so got Triumph Sprint ST 955i (53). Not sporty enough so now on my GSXR 1000 K3 and absolutely love it. 1 year down the line, nearly died way too many times on this bike. Sold it. Had a 6 month break. Missed biking so now, Aug 2019 have a 1999 ZX9r. What a beauty she is too.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1250 has the same "issue" it's just the cam chain tensioner on mine.
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fatjames
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another +1 for cam chain or CCT. Had a similar thing with the cbr, but it was difficult to diagnose due to going away when the clutch was pulled in.
Mine had a manual CCT and about 1/4 turn sorted it.

Also.. might be worth checking things that might have vibrated themselves lose and be tapping when the bike is vibrating. Farings etc.

Last of all, you might be able to narrow it down by listening to the motor using a metal rod. ie, place a socket extension on the engine case and the other end on your ear and see where on the motor it's louder.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 17 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my R1 there was a rattle that was cured by balancing the carbs.They were quite a long way out for a bike that only had 2500 miles on the bores.

But on the injected GSXRs it mean checking the balance of the throttle bodies.Easily done with the correct equipment but only after the engine has been serviced Thumbs Up
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TheGazWaz
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 17 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smashing.

I'll drop it off at the dealer this Saturday. Probably won't pick it up till the following Saturday but I'll report back and see what they do with it.

I forgot to mention when i got the bike there was half a pint of oil more than there should have been in the bike. The oil isn't new but I drained it down just below the maximum line where it's stayed put.

I just hope this hasn't caused too much compression and bent some metal Sad
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Went like this.. 43 years old(2013) decided to do CBT to get a 125 for new job. Bought 2011 YBR, loved it for three months then hated it because it was too god damn slow. Did DAS 4 months later then bought RF600 Loved it, sold it bought Bandit 1200(K3). EFFIN lOVED IT. Wanted something a bit more sporty so got Triumph Sprint ST 955i (53). Not sporty enough so now on my GSXR 1000 K3 and absolutely love it. 1 year down the line, nearly died way too many times on this bike. Sold it. Had a 6 month break. Missed biking so now, Aug 2019 have a 1999 ZX9r. What a beauty she is too.
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TheGazWaz
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 24 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... Thought as much.

Just had a call from the dealer and surprise surprise they can't find anything wrong with it. They said they've had two mechanics on the bike and they can't find anything wrong with it.

He also said they took a K4 out to compare they both sounded the same.

Not sure where to go from here but I plan to record the noise and the bike to an independent that I trust to get a diagnosis.

A small part of me is thinking, is it normal. Who knows.

I'll keep you updated,

Cheers

Gaz
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Went like this.. 43 years old(2013) decided to do CBT to get a 125 for new job. Bought 2011 YBR, loved it for three months then hated it because it was too god damn slow. Did DAS 4 months later then bought RF600 Loved it, sold it bought Bandit 1200(K3). EFFIN lOVED IT. Wanted something a bit more sporty so got Triumph Sprint ST 955i (53). Not sporty enough so now on my GSXR 1000 K3 and absolutely love it. 1 year down the line, nearly died way too many times on this bike. Sold it. Had a 6 month break. Missed biking so now, Aug 2019 have a 1999 ZX9r. What a beauty she is too.
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 24 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just hope this hasn't caused too much compression and bent some metal


Nope. A lot of us have the engine/gearbox oil topped up just above the Max line. I prefer it. As for the original problem and the dealer's opinion - could've said told you so... they aint gonna fess up to anything. Best to get some mates, or ask around for a professional independant opinion. A lot of bikes are rattly on startup - mine sounds like a bag of spanners until it's properly warmed up, after which it sounds exactly as it ought to for a 36 thou mile machine.

One other thing to try - start the engine from cold, and put your hand on the fins/cylinders to feel for any metallic tapping/knocking. You have to be quick but this method does help to establish if there is a knock coming from inside the engine. Also, try to locate the area by listening to it, when the engine is properly warmed up. If there is a noticable noise/rattle from the cam chain area all bets are on.
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TheGazWaz
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 24 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Chris,

The rattle is only there when the engine is under load I.E. Moving along in gear a opening the throttle. When I start it up it sounds perfect and will carry on doing so until I put it gear and give it some beans. That's when the rattle occurs.

As soon as I ease off on the throttle the rattle goes away completely.
____________________
Went like this.. 43 years old(2013) decided to do CBT to get a 125 for new job. Bought 2011 YBR, loved it for three months then hated it because it was too god damn slow. Did DAS 4 months later then bought RF600 Loved it, sold it bought Bandit 1200(K3). EFFIN lOVED IT. Wanted something a bit more sporty so got Triumph Sprint ST 955i (53). Not sporty enough so now on my GSXR 1000 K3 and absolutely love it. 1 year down the line, nearly died way too many times on this bike. Sold it. Had a 6 month break. Missed biking so now, Aug 2019 have a 1999 ZX9r. What a beauty she is too.
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