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Royal Enfield Bullet 612cc project

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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 00:21 - 07 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
You're saying that the 1/4BSF studs are also 6.8mm locating dowels?

That's 17/64" you can get silver steel in that diameter on eBay.

https://r.ebay.com/O874Wf


FFS! I couldn't find 17/64" ANYWHERE and assumed there was no such thing. Not even at the steel stockholders. Rolling Eyes

I searched for 17/64 round bar on ebay but obviously that wouldn't have come up.

Cheers, that will save me a lot of time and effort! Thumbs Up
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 07 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could turn those studs for you, if'n you want.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 00:46 - 07 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I could turn those studs for you, if'n you want.


Cheers for the offer. I'll have a crack myself first, I could do with the practice but mostly because I want to do as much as possible myself. I could actually buy some OEM ones for less than the cost of the steel but the threads on them are really poor.

I'm leaving the machining of the crankcases to an expert because if I screw that up, the whole job's screwed and main bearings really needs a proper press. If I cock up a stud, it's just time and a few pennies of metal up the spout.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 00:51 - 07 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok mate.

If I were to make them it would be by turning down a 12.9 cap screw. It's my favourite material for making that sort of thing. Needs a good split die to cut a decent thread on the OD but the result is a stud of decent strength and known quality material.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 07 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye, split die was the road I was going down. Got that from the stockholders rather than ebay. I'll do the fat studs last in case it goes ping.

Got some full-on blank looks when I asked them for a 3/8" x 26tpi BCT die though (That's the thread they use to hold the gearbox onto the back of the engine). Even had a man in a brown coat come out from through the back to ask what it's for and if that's what I really meant.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:01 - 18 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I have been mostly making studs with threads which are on the piss.

I was at the Dragon rally on my 350 Enfield last weekend and was helping my mate sort out the clutch on his ex-army BSA B40 before we went. Turns out they are every bit as shonky as Enfields are. More so in some ways. We're going to cut a bit out of the middle of his clutch push-rod and fit a ceramic ball bearing in the gap to help stop it overheating and sticking (it runs through the centre of the gearbox mainshaft just like the enfield).

Anyway, I'm getting better at starting these threads. Needed a bigger chamfer grinding on the end to lead the die in and I needed to be spreading the die much more for the first run.

The engine is going to be roughly 5mm taller due to fitting a compression plate. I also want engine studs i can undo with the head in place to aid dissasembly in future. So I've ground a 1/4" square on the end which a small socket can be lowered onto backwards then undone with an allen key.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7-GmjE2KKrPgMxgCS1daPN4noZS-SiEVPCnZizem-F_6HLoRubjjTkNk1PITzyfDVSi57MBLN5IY7HHqYReA2O0TXWxl2L7h7fEyTrVP3Jrd8hS3zznpPyQNXw7cFtBLQgTqo5IrPQ=w1176-h882-no

Standard one on top.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/crt67ce8m6ClZvNlkZwfvTEVp6OP5lF5rAskP2I4vrtFtovNnzxgpkuNUmh0zWMnmMtUcZiS2fsdYD8Cu-FXxZdZDUrC8oKbVlSvFUqbsMNO2fGxillSYh9YhMmwv2FY-LIjlzz6vg=w1176-h882-no

Checking socket for fit, I've just been eyeballing the square and doing it a little at a time.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/L_y40VOtSoABp6BUXvYctDOxiWvPej-xTsXuIDzk5m2NZwCULZreVziV3uFoTWhat7gHjpi_7nC1KVkjrvm38H6qIPdv67UPaMKZUWvseBHgcR4T0kcs4BQc7G9avI1p1Q7PdbYEag=w662-h882-no

Took the time to clean up the threads in the head nuts too.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CNjV1NONTDizCzRaP61mVktC65R45A0mMeaGRwnIrwqlgIRBUNelvW0HJ-Razz0R7JZM2EV2IaX9e6dI8bAxI99wzzV5GHJmeCnVWSFTPlKgJwgnE0URssJT8GETwHoAfZVQ6v0p1Q=w1176-h882-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 18 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend gave me a top tip for my grip on the die which has made starting these threads and keeping them square a lot easier.

With the steel mounted vertically in the vice. Both thumbs on top of the die, both index fingers under the die with the middle joint of each touching the piece, handles of the die stock gripped in the remaining three fingers of each hand. Keep the hands and forearms held ridgidly in position, elbows tucked in against the ribs and turn the die stock using rotation of the upper body rather than by moving the hands/arms. Little nibbles to start with before moving onto 1/2 forwards 1/4 back once it's going.

Anyway. Head studs done which involve the most thread cutting. 8 rocker studs, 8 rocker cover studs and 4 gearbox studs to go.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3r-LutHwEa70ZN3UNWJNuacrrtkvNsOEKJS8KKWGZcR_UmtRWhfCf27HlXUYVgoaj23T7P9JjIvGjk0E0Z9pSRGK5KGgWWtoaV0jIXVtIK-yHVBwf1NGT129tZn7qJPX0HOPCZxu1w=w1176-h882-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 18 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I'll do the fat studs last in case it goes ping.


Uh huh.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/D35PDK-kFy2f1AFGwVeKPXn8B6AtoUgfNzeAmQZyv3WOOB79VnFHhtYAMpc12iaUCglqpLdoiC5Vp6d4gnr8vBzwJV9FJOFwck-MQS50BBl0l83as7zRB8P6yEi2ofNsd4aKzGKmmA=w1176-h882-no

Ping it is. However, got the first cut on them all even with it split (it kind of held together in the die stock). New die required but shouldn't be abusing it so badly from this point on.

Had the rockers out to check the new studs were going to fit in the rocker block tunnels and to see which are the wide holes. Two of the diagonally opposite studs are 1/4" and two of them are 17/64". The 17/64" studs wont fit in the 1/4" holes.

Anyway. I've got a set of balanced alloy rockers made by Samrat (an Indian company who do upgraded parts for Enfields). Picture of the original iron one and the samrat one next to it. Significant reduction in reciprocating mass = more revs.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fuswaz8WDqAV0HjbNinkneERiPRm0TtB0P7IhsZ4N2-ghdwvLMZydcCZR-NOepU61P8N2nqZnQ-Dc94pydf0k0QqibhyJnDokH2ZLu0m3kFIloPRc8IWc8P2Xp23arBDuvcwWu9VMw=w1176-h882-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yz0GFpP2c7CDKtIT-036JYC6zGZxZxEtev_vLMf76XB7Qbcwoo8dzOLpoNk9nVdKrX3Ynip87GXEn5Z941i2dsaeOCb52Tdg0EC1ymEx7QPsAgMaZiD_kXwzyzQ24dHF_ET0oqJzRQ=w1176-h882-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 20 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change of plan regarding the gearbox. I was going to spring for a new 5-speed box which come in at £780.

I check ebay every couple of days for second hand parts and just got in first on a 4-speed box at £190 delivered.

Now the problem with the 4-speed boxes, other than extreme clunkiness, is there is a massive hole in the gearing between 3rd and 4th so you're pretty much revving out in 3rd before you can shift to 4th and still be able to pull.

There is a close ratio gearset available for the 4-speed boxes which moves the fitst three gears closer to 4th and removes that hole at the expense of a slightly taller first gear. Can be a problem with a 350 but I ought to have the power and torque in the new motor to deal with this.

Standard: 1st = 2.78:1, 2nd = 1.84:1, 3rd = 1.36:1, 4th = 1:1
Close ratio: 1st = 2.50:1, 2nd = 1.66:1, 3rd = 1.23:1, 4th = 1.:1

I'd initially looked at doing this but a second hand 4-speed box usually gores for £250 then you need to throw another £250 at it for decent bearings and the close ratio gears. Then you're 3/4 of the way to a 5-speed box anyway.

The best bit? This one already has the close ratio gears fitted AND a sealed bearing conversion. This means the bearings inside it are European not Indian and are therefore round and I can now fill the gearbox with gear oil instead of 00 grade grease (which has to be one of the most unpleasant substances found in and around a motorcycle).

So only one major componant left to buy which will be an electronic ignition system.

If I later decide I want to upgrade to a 5-speed box, it isn't difficult to change it out with the engine still in the frame, or it wont be with the removable studs I'm making. Half a days work to do and I wont lose anything on this 4-speed box if I sell it on.

Both boxes have a 1:1 ratio for top gear so swapping a 4 for a 5-speed box wont require any alteration to the primary or final drive gearing either.

I actually quite like the quirkiness of the 4-speed boxes. They are delightfully "agricultural" yet very direct once they're actually in gear (rather than half in or in one of the many false neutrals). Also a neutral finder lever is always a talking point.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 20 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
The best bit? This one already has the close ratio gears fitted AND a sealed bearing conversion.


Now there's lovely Smile Thumbs Up
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Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 20 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit of chassis work for a change. Feels more like bike building.

Front end first. I made several errors here in terms of order of operations but I'm working without a manual here.

I'd got a bottom yoke from India but the bearing seat from the UK because I'm cheap, not stupid. The inordinately large tube spanner you use to fit the gearbox sprocket makes a respectable slide hammer for this task.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/f-ykqKK4I8X4uEFOnpb7lUTkLID45ac9qmmynFkJebqeGcH14f8JpvEz8XAa1As4fueLEHGSRKWk56vhB3Flp7l8120yQgNMLVPychtIc2CWvsLG4prPkZUvvkl1ExGgU9h1p_IwdQ=w1176-h882-no


Combined with a bit of heat.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VRYP6cyfkWcYR8UGUgkzayad-Vt5w_0oz2lOJohyeySAdJQOLnqq3X8j_yqzgO5RonwrgHbKJcXDlQDIrI5XZIe34jw2kNqdO4k7wvL6ajxzUgxZEwVHpDdnqFXq-kreFbURK2OKfQ=w1176-h882-no

And we're on.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MRabNZKRz1SqISgpKpA4pfC8vaMAjYUoy2VoRIkL8uC_DJ9-hk9d7hCEwaq5YirpM-_Cg3QmDbzQ0wEccVp1THvY18SQRNdt3ze_rbVuSfDER0_HGUP0qFVi2d9ujCupmVbeQRxvqg=w1176-h882-no

The bearing seats from the frame came out in one piece and look pristine, just the dust cover to replace. I've got a metal one to replace the cracked plastic one

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JtraQsXkwnbG3tgYFQ7YW0G1NYAVxJR-vLdfqbdB_3WB3MfQn5QCyO5pxMbTppbINnYHyvzcd_wnwUMog3MhO_cPwd8l0ZWy2d_nRSYg0xDEK6QyoFQdSLHFEQ5pidJO29Tv2NOZmg=w1176-h882-no

Cunning use of bicycle workshop stand.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/v1d2SThz-rVJdmwT3jI-hQYSRTynbu8Z6XtJyqgR1k8RNpzD3b8GN4T96w1k8X24LadvCVRIUI1ByWFEDO0qhdyqLpWtPG1tEI2ZJPtRWDKx4WS6nK2x1T3xCWTYEIrTC9DF-f8fCA=w1176-h882-no

Order of operations error #1. I should have fitted the TOP bearing seat (without the dust cover) first, then I wouldn't have had to use a big socket supporting the bottom bearing seat to prevent damage to the dust cover while driving the top bearing seat in.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6xUpQ5Q54w8C2gG5vp1KoaFGGb9Us-Oz3ZUqU0Ze7SoBwCRaqxbTa23LW6gcohI8bT0F4u8m-s-AJUJSMx9lBCpf9JUYrvbsv_0IgoynYG9G2AE4bZnN6jt35jI_N6HVBwuzsPFQrg=w1176-h882-no

I'm going with moly grease for this because it's high load, low movement. 38 ball bearings. 19 each side. Worth knowing before you start. Also worth putting a cloth down underneath the bike so if (when) you drop one it doesn't bounce/roll away.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UnlShGzDl1Ja8EhOoai6IysKGUWbAnbviU6qBWPfiAclp4xIFR-uuZb9VNu4tg2XDUoYHZUnbY57iM8Uyxi53fYoMnsjmfUl7A_jbtZNN02-vFqltxtXwvBttGyhwjg08kFmMKGSow=w1176-h882-no

Stuck in place.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cgb7Gn3RrbePNVyRb37jD75N8c-JSFbCqPmmYCRY3wgOxbITHfsE_dmHvD8EqqkxWuxBnc-LHTak34MithUQIseA1bjD3yBdxIOUwTBQAziMvt2q4g_imFgyp_GovWPK6rhAoFYcMQ=w1176-h882-no

Problem. Not entirely unexpected. There are many slight variations in frame and cycle parts. The steering stop on this frame a slightly different design to the one the yoke is designed for and the yoke is fouling the frame before it hits the stop.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yQXpgm1kNHU8jb0ZxUOOfcGt3AeMPgq6UH3qK4QZ3x1rzvrG0GU1ElLGUdAytep-fC-wCO4Uj0-xz09liP86gv5VvwZgLlMZjaKMSlSlkfnZUBaLK6TfXUYYCGOookNHpf2bhM7MJA=w1176-h882-no

There is an easy but slightly horrifying fix for this. It involves a hacksaw. Even hitchcocks sell a similar one claiming tactfully "will need the lockstops modifying to fit other bullets."

Anyway. Fixed. Just need to remember to paint the ends. There was no way of finding this issue until the bearing seats were fitted (thereby showing the height it sits at) and I wasn't about to fit the bottom bearing seat before having the yoke powdercoated.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jbFvjpQqKctLtnFsoHh3z7BwytmQQtQVQQu7h7hA-AL1CflpUjBHYtpbF6g1Tjd7qraOs1XUMbHWiopFBlO8mXE7t7fAdgfjLmVMoFUZa_xerlyPUNFmKa92Mfi-0E-gPOKAklnsTg=w1176-h882-no

Going to need to turn this over so hairy string is useful.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_cLon-B6di7o06ozy1RWqDdGNI25cITCgcC-L33FocyD6f3CGaZI55JE9b2KOSg2d5bv76VqoAwQ8LHDyZyh188QnVK1ZKMFAlecklvDyH3eEB3JsW8xpx0HwdmAqWcjXZryp7ltZg=w1176-h882-no

I actually cocked up here too. There was still powdercoating on the bit of the stem just below the top threads which needed removing because it is a tight fit through the top bearing race on the casquette. A bit of scraping and sanding later and the casquette taps on over the top yoke. The top nut is a simple sleeve nut which tightens the whole casting down onto the bearings.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vFP7VIHXjV0KMUZ-cZs8nBBeywf08xhOn6eT59FsiuRhBF2KR2N7spqwdn6qVFMC5JwDbOanMYbthC3RUhm5fAV-m8eExrC6j422iE-TvmDB_GUISSiG9ZJGtLRgcN2UdtZJcClyJg=w1176-h882-no

There is a hole in the back of the casquette. There is an allen head in here with a threaded collar on the end. When you tighten it, the collar is pulled tightly against the outside of the sleeve nut preventing it from undoing. Not your usual locknut and washer affair but a none the less effective piece of 1950's design.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uSSdrjMlWGMcsoR1RzqU0o8YXnrmsjwbPlhzCZh9Y5vGLefQvsQcEFEvYNrOVa8U_Tgy6VTd59hNb0IO8fct72zlOZMdmJMZ5Cl6j1Poao_VEE3fp_BZo-vX3hhhxr1SOktEHzWV_w=w1176-h882-no

Final step was to wrap the whole lot in and old t-shirt and tie it on to stop me damaging my paintwork. This is why I got the paint done early doors, the painted casquette is one of the first chassis parts to go on if I want the bike on its wheels.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 20 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also fitted the swingarm. Piss easy job, It sits on metalastic bushes, not bearings so it literally bolts into the frame so the inner bush is held ridgidly, the swingarm movement is all by deforming of the bush. I shit you not. So important not to fully torque the bolt down until the shocks are fitted. I may adjust this further at a later point so they are locked down in a neutral position with rider sag in place (sounds fancy. Actually means sit on the bike than loosen and tighten the nut).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YpwT_wUYNOgPE6SmvhtpsPwqNrWLQtASkFeINLDOlARdg5-seGFfQw_SZJ9Lymwpnn1xQ5NqTAYMVvkgs3brMpZLg3bHJRJQaBPfIESCoWBVwmRQF-JiIEBwsoWAtP6rwAF8y2cNFQ=w1176-h882-no

I don't use a torque wrench much on a bullet, it's asking to strip threads but here it seemed appropriate. If these are going to strip, it's a problem.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rDqApu8hoLf_8iWmiEk1NFQI73gpn26yUkradZTd83Kfb22wzHrqeI2NqHw2-BLmEmbxebJRz4hmGV8KK7yP3KVSuFLx8AW2KrbNzpOeXuF76z43fWKITKVC3vWLl_Aog2a-gGYlUw=w1176-h882-no

My policy of buying some extras when I get oddball fasteners paying off. Good quality zinc plated M10, nylok shoulder nuts for the shocks.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VzylSXUiVSF2u0ctqr3-esWoW3ZSFh08-RLs7Skvi96QTNwG_10Uy3IRq5XUqAM_z0YqpA1mji0o62Xce5R1XtWwjD5vJN9DyHC6SfSeqHYAb2qO3aDTmUj4xqvViksU9ff8RNU8VA=w1176-h882-no

Likewise grade 8,8 bolts with an appropriate plain section for the top mounts. I've left them deliberately over-long. I may use this as an attachment point for a luggage rack or mudguard stay later.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3gWUkNdyucZxNWU88W9wsMT_79Qb385Um3RqlH6o7OZWx8vM7Mvlv5Et_qie2L2YYJP0G6uM9u6KubFHUp86Go-XDyaGZ2CIih2C8l6ADwpkP_9EUvXzTDMOGDB6adJslqItwVIT8A=w1176-h882-no

I'm not sure about the shocks. They are branded "forsa". Not sure if they are any good or not but they'll do to park the bike on for now.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 20 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stripped the forks i got off ebay a while back. I had low expectations here because a whole load of water came out of them when they were turned upside down but I was prepared to replace internals, maybe even stanchions. I could see the lowers were good and the stanchions looked ok.

The stanchions on these are usually in good nick anyway because they have shrouded forks as standard (still undecided if I'll go shrouds or gaiters on this one).

Anyway, first thing, bottom nut off. Not confidence inspiring. This should be a bastard, it should also have a copper washer under it. It was finger tight and no washer. Someone has been in here before.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ACIqadm9P5zwgOYd7NCBiafGgEJknMVRYNIv1Klm2_6GNT52hYAhIY1vzMTw7eYtMyh4xcz1Ju-z7VcbTOwcSOJTbrPHxfa9KTWmlzdW2gVxL5c-Df39ICv9fSZDEyHdr2-QvO2sAw=w662-h882-no

Having done this job before, I know the lip of the fork lower is quite fragile. As such, I invested in a special tool in the form of ta tight fitting steel collar to protect it last time I did the fork seals on my 350. Now paid for itself twice.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/14oYYlYpCMqi9voVPnoxrKRc4RIr-wOBTQjjLHqm9AX8tAbeTZP9mE6QvlT2HI3UbTznTwhZTzo2wzXXE6VrsRCYQSYxOTOwfnkkU8AtOc9kV6fkViYux_fOotkn9B4PJ_9gwdChOQ=w662-h882-no

How abu that then? Yes, Enfield Bullets have cartridge damped forks. Don't let this fool you into thinking they are like modern forks because the travel is extremely short and clunky. However, they have proper valves and discs and everything.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ebipdAJRTUCrZnxOxcBpmJnzs8KgHC8E6oXeO_JII5Fwb0ZqFoTCWuymmGZFuQehTEmMwtxm_KLwPESomVRjNoDKJNuCFboZbDlcwcBk3BJdvi0CCT9esNZRpglyxDr6qVEE8MR58w=w1176-h882-no

Here's the main use for that steel collar. Prying out the old oil seals with a big scrwdriver. There are two proper seals with a spacer between them and no dust seal or bushings. Perversely, they do actually work and rarely leak.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VJ8OL5cZ2wCifjdj-lj8FLqDFXzespm-RzOv8TB6FNIh3sjPwDYLdl0q6Dci-EQNKRLyOOMJn8B57epWARoxMKawiA_k7QfBS8hNJGDUOTL30MjXD0x0bqk6saaMuX3rzFI0eBqmFg=w1176-h882-no

Yeah. Probably not supposed to look like that but it seems mostly superficial yak.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sOiG6OYtW-ttUmWQg93t_00Zjz8kJ-2tFmK5W9YFt3iJIjVNVKNFqWOfaFZB8iXnp6gzxlA3IGGyZZtB53xR9wvNDoOEytGXP3M9zOlTW6-ZbfQf8EOGpJLxZhMBMCVA26EaxGJfxw=w1176-h882-no

This collar was also finger tight and is also usually a bastard so these have been all the way apart.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DNKz8iZEr6KUD47YYGwmV1_hhrw7zlami_GadGTIz2bsboIyLweJXvobLzJB5k680IkUEEojtrhzrN1KHwybApvTycmz-LYeLlletkakKEuAHVeIeNG6evPV-vCA0If-smdBw0iluQ=w1176-h882-no

Not clear how they got water in them though. Thinking maybe they were struggling to get the seals out, brimming them with water, reassembling and bashing the top with a mallet is an old trick to get seals out that hardly ever works.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JhzTGi0CmR1PYVSwRptSxjNMmjCHpwZxf0xvQJjxPdYoDZoEpXwXbHIT_IswavtqNLwzaFe2mvEst_dDXVDOdaqEeRNLDKDEEg9OfQK65N7-Vkt8av2IneRzLw9-PI4Imm97teRQIQ=w1176-h882-no

Forks apart. The damper assembly strips down further. Later models have a spring over the damper stud between the two valves, putting more pressure on the valve washers to increase the damping effect. I've checked the part numbers and all the other parts are the same, just need the two springs at a quid each.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yEBLW6Qcqv9Wy-uA_nY4BIGKhiWqB9kwSb5B5CAmxAV-7gcl3_nbAoQR9bo44d_N-O6HAUbgmq9S6YkB9yibcTFKWumEi0P3C_L1yy94zQro6Tr4OM1RJxdDXFiBBV-9qniVpUL2iA=w662-h882-no

I'm pretty sure these are salvageable so I'll try the old vinegar trick, worked well on the engine bolts. I managed to dismantle the damper stud and valve assembly without too much trouble. If not, the whole assembly can be had from India for £25 delivered, just takes a couple of weeks to arrive.

Also need to do the insides of the forks stanchions but I'll need more vinegar and a big bottle brush.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VhNbISXa8J35vjk0s9N3m0mgpotYHZDmIZrCYKFBqxC6gz3oKB1XYHTe__muvYto70gh7Yx_rg8ba6GUGid2ZHeU6r5_WuTrZ_TcfpdH0vJNZvw4RMOsFDPkcCAngOQRK1yqUX3HyA=w1176-h882-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 21 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had an interesting insight into someone elses head tonight. When I bought this bike, some of the things done to it were more than a little unorthadox. I have referred to the previous owner as a fuckwit before but this is perhaps a tad harsh, they obviously had some understanding of motorcycle mechanics... No, wait. He left bits of broken piston ring in the crankcases, he's a fuckwit.

Anyway, butterfly effect. You're building a custom bike (bobber,barn find, cafe racer hipster nonsense) and have decided to use an obscure front end off a late 1950's sidecar outfit with massive leading axles and a very oddball twin, single leading hub (as in two, half width, single leading, one each side). The butterfly flaps its wings.

Because of this, the speedo drive, which the Indians intelligently relocated from the back to the front wheel to avoid having an 8ft long speedo drive cable running the entire length of the bike (standard on most classic Brit. bikes), no longer fits. A light breeze is deflected

Aha. I could put it on the back wheel, just like they used to be, thinks he. I know, I'll obtain a 60 year old speedo drive gearbox and fit it to a 2003 Indian hub. The breeze strengthens and passes out over the sea.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/S3QSavTxSEkH-WVBpsHucpWI66jqm_XTzIJU-X2BKG5cvC0Xoqb4-lOmaY_2vvUsAZYfvPw7L6fYEN00Xk0-MBHJA8gumeWYT6LuMTe5YonHT0Qm2nh2njXobktSa66ZrK5-L7cVWw=w662-h882-no

Ah, but this doesn't fit. Perhaps I could replace one of the front wheel spacers with a speedo drive from a modern Indian bike? The wind drops momentarily as the sun comes out.

No, that would be too simple. But there is clearly no place to fit this thing on the rear wheel and it would need notches to engage with the speedo gearbox. I know. I'll remove the bearing dust seal and file some notched into the alloy of the hub. Coreolis force picks up the breeze and amplifies it, swirling hot air into the upper atmosphere.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N01wLs6NcVYQo-pa-3Mkt1ZndsYuXnW18sRgpPNE4vmWoHTDeVcL_YibGmVHLqm48cwpl1auOMZO-kz91jmUah4x1ZxHmRd3gxz5G7cR4U2vyBzK3ZpUX-HpmQkuWjpfZFJkSC-87w=w1176-h882-no

Ahh. But now the spacer that butts against the bearing centre is too short, it doesn't go all the way through the speedo drive. I'll need to use a longer spacer here. A vortex begins to form as cold air descends to replace the hot air

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nSMpIki4ClwGBkoe3TJ5a84WMq-_xDjaGi2Rmu_J6IhqP57poi2MY85ao7PPD16BcvQ-0qsVtRPDhPu14YD8WsZkVc4nYBmRaenSKruFThcmBIDRORlpgmDAjcqf9KfziNgd8qmnAA=w1176-h882-no

But wait. That makes the entire hub assembly too long to fit between the forks of the swingarm. The vortex accelerates.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sl2VNiEUq_yTfimz_s3Oud8T9NHKSepXnYacskIDcYZXP-GiDtOTmpwALdHOA1ErP_D7Jhx7Ok1E3RlJYjBGbbr-T3CEU-spzpb54jfI-v8WzK32fd-d2sDoQTpb-q61jWa1dW2-pg=w1176-h882-no

Ahh fuckit. I'll just file away the other spacer so it slots into the fork ends. Oh, and while I'm at it I'll just randomly hacksaw the end off the locating stud/pivot pin of the brake drum so the nut doesn't fit on it properly. Now I can fit my 8ft long speedo cable. Tornado.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8gNIRFrn4OcUf795rzpzetmEsXQwpvrC9Ox616VuGYxrKnH2gKHFfDSUebRsmpzvpoQXWZZvK4nk6nAqZ_E3C8gXIjRX33KOVcjyLZjtJNbXXGPc9EqB78zUVtieZKQxoYP0pEivNA=w1176-h882-no

So, a long road for a short cut really. It's not actually all that bad but I'll need to replace the bearing seals and all the spacers and the brake pivot pin (no Idea why he cut the end off this). It must have been an utter BASTARD to assemble because he'd have had to get that small spacer in place between the speedo drive and the hub with the outside spacer already in place and without the benefit of the dust seal to locate it in. I hope it nipped his fingers!

On the plus side, the brake drum and shoes are brand new, never been used.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aVoYNoBewz-QzpasNZ3DfB5ATdJ8n2w1T5XSvOYrV83A8LMR3U_3o_EDxYaEoGcYBwvXOQDovcZFyinpEgPRYpB6rDIJmjTsU92gKPG89Bm2pOETbGUxvSniHF9nezyk0Folz24XBQ=w1176-h882-no

The design is quite neat really. The brake drum. cush drive vanes and rear sprocket are all one piece. This connects to the brake plate and bolts to the left hand chainstay by a stub axle. You could fit the chain at this point, tension it and leave it in place.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZLWhk3ITY-c-EviVhkyXQMPvvnMERU725Hr5cZWmY2KJgi0di_Z1ivE96QMAzd_5mmoITBtNZ3AHx4QhApHr4BJhUgiHc92D5093f7kPgy1LT17Q14SnWGp94-d0gFYU7gLQGMNW_A=w1176-h882-no

You can see the chopped off locating stud with its nut at the bottom left of the brake plate.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lLMGpaFivqukZKyjYURz2jX2gEv8SuqoC33OUAuprwbRIMABZUj7aOc7ftaCRfkgMrIryttuST8ctCpTKKBeM4AQPTOQc0D-Ogl2p7E2Cyq3GSbT5Vmg0d90MLGyuhVO1GMd8mOn6A=w1176-h882-no

To fit the wheel, you just slot it onto the cush drive fins, insert the spacer and push the spindle through. Wheel removal is the reverse. Literally undo one nut slide the axle out and the wheel's off without disturbing either the chain tension or the brake. (Yes, I know the axle goes through from the right side, I just wanted to check it went through all the bearings)

Oh, I also cleaned up the fork lowers in hot, soapy water and started the inside of the stanchions soaking in vinegar too. The damper rods assemblies are already starting to look pretty clean. I only paid £98 for these forks so I'm prepared to put some work into them to get them working. Considering re-springing them at assembly.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JsZNFvd6JwUh3W3zcNnphI8cldv3ldv7V2MksiErr7t2Wjgm-91YVNte3T8cDmGHlfysDAmjOrqbpxJGoGDTrkl8myRg15CqCOKHAA1x4m0Yq9DAHHOG759x-mejOeku-OeFDbU7Tw=w1176-h882-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fhJBu1bQKGdQRiJawaO8rEN4_UYzZhKs7UyGO3jbdaF4naNL3gHpPZelpnnKrTMf2pc-mZ-OVsReO9GSYpiTEwbQoIzmvY7HhAcX4x_CD-KbHt2GaEG0GvRI6Gq_IdlcfW9qy39X0Q=w1176-h882-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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virus
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 21 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting rear axle setup, you say the axle goes in from the right? Maybe its worth looking into the armstrong MT350 style 2 part rear axle and maybe seeing if you could get one made to suit this?

They have a stub axle that goes in from the left and hold the hub assembly with a external thread in a female end, then a main axle that goes in from the right and screws into this stub axle, that way you can take just the right side axle out and remove the wheel.


Cheers
John
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own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 21 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

virus wrote:
Interesting rear axle setup, you say the axle goes in from the right? Maybe its worth looking into the armstrong MT350 style 2 part rear axle and maybe seeing if you could get one made to suit this?

They have a stub axle that goes in from the left and hold the hub assembly with a external thread in a female end, then a main axle that goes in from the right and screws into this stub axle, that way you can take just the right side axle out and remove the wheel.


That's pretty much what happens anyway. The left sub axle is fixed in place and hollow and the wheel spindle goes all the way through. I suppose there's no real good reason why I couldn't fit the spindle left to right too but right to left keeps all the nuts (and therefore spanners) on one side of the bike.

I think this way is better because the main axle compresses all three bearings and passes through both sides of the swingarm rather than just pulling the wheel against the stub axle. It's kind of idiot proof (unless you are a very determined idiot with his eye on the prize).
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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virus
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 21 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
It's kind of idiot proof (unless you are a very determined idiot with his eye on the prize).


Whistle Whistle Shifty Laughing
____________________
own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 24 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now seems like as good a time as any to do some maths. I need to get my gearing sorted.

So there's primary drive and final drive, any gearbox you can fit has a 1:1 ratio for top gear anyway.

Standard bike has a 25t engine sprocket, a 56t clutch sprocket then a 17t gearbox sprocket and a 38t rear sprocket.

The clutch sprocket only comes in that size. The rear sprockets are a ballache to change about because they are built into the drum.

So as standard. 1 engine revolution gives 0.4464 revolutions of the clutch and 0.1997 revolutions of the rear wheel in top gear.

Tyres are 100/90/19" which is 19" + 180mm = 662.6mm wheel diameter. So circumferance = 2081mm.

Peak power at 4500rpm. So 898.7 rotations of the rear wheel/minute. That makes a flat-out 112km/h @4500rpm (69.5mph). Which seems about correct.

Tuned engine makes peak power at 5500rpm so if everything was standard it should be pulling. umm... 137km/h @ 5500rpm. (85mph).

Well that's boring shit. Let's try to gear it for 100mph in top. I can change gearbox sprocket or engine sprocket. The latter means buying a new primary drive chain. So gearbox sprocket then.

Adding 2 teeth will make Umm. Uhh. 153km/h (95mph).

So adding 3 teeth (so 20t gearbox sprocket) gives.. harrumph... Thinking 161.3km/h @5500rpm (100.22).

Or the hell with it, a 21t would make it 169.4km/h @5,500rpm (105mph).

Damn I suck at maths.

So fitting a 21t front sprocket and leaving everything else standard should give a theoretical terminal speed of 105mph. Which is not a rediculous top speed for a 40bhp motorcycle, it should pull it. That equates to 76mph in top at 4,000rpm. The power kicks in at 3,500rpm which would be 66mph, below that would be cruising.

Maybe that's too much? There again, it's easier to make a chain shorter than longer and sprockets aren't very expensive.

Thinking about it. It would be casually chugging along at 60mph in top, hooking 3rd and cracking the throttle shoudl yield full-bore-roar almost instantly.

Yeah, I think I'll try 21t.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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nowhere.elysium
The Pork Lord



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 24 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

This bike is going to make for the weirdest sleeper.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 23:51 - 24 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aluminium soldering.

I got two full size alloy mudguards with this bike.

Due to an obsession with convoluted flatbar bracketry, the previous owner had drilled 23 holes in the rear mudguard alone when fitting it.

I decided to have a go at filling the holes with a view to drilling many fewer. I'm also trying to get a feel for the solder because I'll have that breather hole in the crankcase to block up at some point.

So I've been using durafix aluminium solder rods and a normal blowlamp. It is only JUST possible to get the piece hot enough with a normal blowlamp to make the solder flow. So you prep the piece with a stainless steel brush (not sure exactly why but any aluminium solder I've used involves scratching the metal surface with a piece of stainless, wont work without it). Once you have the aluminium hot enough to melt and flow the solder onto the surface of the metal, you can use it to form a kind of "bubble" in the hole.

So we start with a hole.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/owhgGijXfQdKqt95dnuHQ1pd6MSE_3vct-bLQCzCeZEKNq5DNE4lTXodgxkPGkZ9FshR4ab9zXN6-bSgobVvaO87BEby8k90MnrGg19yyf4uB8hFkBOd9tRKkmdOc7W5bPGoeLR2qA=w1180-h885-no

FIll it with solder.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Qr9k_wUiEwyhDh8RtSXPfcfXyhdCRBS8TsCmhCBgsnXtFKwheJ-7rs-Ng0fHFF3nu1TESXt1uKpDGTej38EHLfwxUFpGgszmJ2CnTnWKJMo8YpkmBeeM8bPm03FDxgiOkFAi8Hg-VA=w1180-h885-no

The file down the excess, sand then polish. (I'll give the whole thing a going over with finer wet and dry then wire wool once I've got all the holes faired off).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZiDXt-mYHyT_X8SuFyZq9NxFi0wVnBJP6VLgWvlX5pC4tvZ_8FlB5fjlxIjezED5iL8xuADzbE3GL-L7R0klCdUD08a51v-O-T1gJYzZBgUzrBPlljETOuZqsowAIc5MVL85wtVd-w=w1180-h885-no

As you can see, there are quite a few to sort out.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dDrLbbmIRDGc10z55kSFMYeAEDX8AXS4wV6mpQ_Xb-Ax3P4rlghFVIdnwBKFlV_6ghQAPv-vfMPRuC3rMhEdEdpG9wVZfjdfXDxLAkwGJZHz_c5jwMkMt6p37e9c7RRFFHfmzIrnrw=w664-h885-no

The solder forms almost a bubble in the holes. You swirl the solder stick round in small circles from the edge towards the centre until the hole is full. This is what they look like from the inside.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rD2T51g90EgUTR5uGiReWd8GBz9yZ8AxHMuCA2LlEafm3T_ZGzdug0qHqRXaqRUziFczgVQbOpjo7fIeuhTULwT3xrJ-2G6iIvd4FttyqXsj6jnzSrz-AyrHoVpQozrKbmzOsj_YlA=w1180-h885-no

Took two solder sticks to repair 20 holes. Should have taken 1.5 if I'd been neater/more expert/less impatient.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 09:06 - 25 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably best off with a blow torch, I'm still definitely a learner when it comes to brazing and similar, but any time I've used proper heat from oxy-acetylene on aluminium I've ended up melting the work piece before the ally flows nicely. Could just be that I'm not very good mind Laughing

I've had far better results with MAPP gas, and best of all MAPP gas blow torch combined with lots of general heat from a big natural gas torch on our flame hearth.

Nice repair anyway Thumbs Up
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 25 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good heat source is the important Key to success
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been thinking about the clutch.

The standard clutch is a bit odd in that the 6 springs press down onto the middle of the plate stack. (Not my photos)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d8lCQfQfxOaIBnn6BMD4vklQPGC-Gkwl0bWEOB2cVHeeG3tla5CuKpqoPyrBE3XxOsZVW2S8kU_MdmZ1RatshJIwdYptlGGGabQYTV2or9zno8jjJWlf1a3Y7tQHOQKpfPgp7qwQfA=w550-h350-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/klFQnJH1jWy3D57MlWxD9x2pvXOamQit7KWaaFfmGWsPkkgKkXJ79F_ZmXR9RsOIeEkUaKKkcA3A5CiZd7v8czu4BTAcMwhOoNsFUd512rSLWE_hx_2LNWI_hkW2gfGSlQ_7v3CCKQ=w550-h412-no

They are quite prone to slipping at the best of times. One idea that has been mooted is to move the springs out so they are pressing directly over the friction plates. There is a fairly expensive kit for doing this but I reckon I could quite easily modify a spare top plate by drilling a circle of holes round the edge and bolting a short bit of bar to act as a spring guide through them. This modified top plate could then be bolted down on top of the clutch assembly in place of the standard small spring plate.

Here's a standard top plate:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DdVKmbZacSBKxaKlIPgZNyJMN_jmTFo6oH0vVHt6_braiaYWLn0BoYKEYPtN10QBLVos1gTo_ZSkmBJgbKnXm31I8wOA0ezPvu-dLoBZ8g02kqbisC1dZBbp0bqubmrjuc5N4XGQ6w=w249-h150-no

So Binning part 16 and replacing it with an extra part 14 with the springs mounted round the edge.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GLR0e4j6axykkVE8wXYM45nyOKWbGvlplRdt9hXFlaY0MqUTLgX8sj-ldSqrI4xZmnxgIrvZy0zizcOGTNYRT-KJ2YK3YPqbL7_gB4McINlJpAGUkmb1njitj8kYuYEO01FOemR1fw=w658-h264-no

There is another option. I got an odd looking clutch centre with the 4-speed gearbox I just bought on ebay which turns out to be off a really gucci Bob Newby racing clutch and apparently the centre is the expensive bit. I've emailed to see how much the rest would cost because "expensive" is all relative. Potentially even belt driven primary with dry clutch on the cards?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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nowhere.elysium
The Pork Lord



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PostPosted: 15:54 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based upon your clutch musings, I have to ask: when does this cross the line between 'upgraded' and 'experimental'?
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

nowhere.elysium wrote:
Based upon your clutch musings, I have to ask: when does this cross the line between 'upgraded' and 'experimental'?


Well. It's based on an actual product:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yKKIw1qJOeV42kFaRoOZXwk1-OLsBoRURWX01syTIeI7EQrpd6f23Grv_5nmSmpIfe2ZxTS79Eauinlyn1lIPsZ-yOl4vgYLRY0e6-y_CEEErJ1cNVRFsU39kbFi_Yg0NoQxC8L5AA=w600-h257-no

Just that would cost me £120 while a spare top plate would cost me £16.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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