Technique advice please?

[chrisdubya]

Hi y'all

Following on from this thread https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=320895 last weekend I entered a Hare & Hounds event which happened to be the first round of the Scottish Championship. Because my friends were doing it and I bowed to peer pressure. Probably not the best idea after having only ridden the bike for an hour, and having never ridden anything like it before ever.

Anyway, I muddled on through and I didnt finish last!! (4th last actually).

I learned loads which was good, so it wasnt a total waste of time. This mainly included learning how to pick the bike up after dropping it - I was a master of this by the end.

Anyway, the thing I consistently struggled with was muddy ruts. The track in places went through areas which were muddy holes and got churned up and in some places the ruts were tyre tracks from 4x4's. Could I bollocks figure this out - dropped the bike virtually every single time.

So my question is - how is best to tackle this? Stand up or sit down? Fast or slow? Feet up or down? Flat out lean back and shut my eyes?

Great experience though, would do again

Cheers,
Chris

[doggone]

What's actually happening, is the front tyre sliding down into ruts?
Looking at picture in the other thread the tyres are only mildly off-road style.
It made huge difference to my CRF when I changed original to something more knobbly and the front was most improved.

Having said that on most lanes you are best trying to ride between the 4x4 ruts but there will always be times you end up trapped in one for a short way.

[chrisdubya]

Yeah front end goes in, back end goes in, I flop. Was bloody difficult and everyone else was flying through but I just had no control! One of my friends did say that they're road legal enduro tyres and that they might not be the best, but to me they had nobbly bits on so should have been ok... (total novice).

So perhaps a more mud-based tyre? Any suggestions in that case?

Thanks

[doggone]

There are as many opinions as owners, mine has Michelin T63 I think.
Have a look on some tyres sites and see what there is in your size.

A usual it's a balance of performance versus lifespan and cost - and how serious off road you are going. For dryish conditions what you have might be good enough most of the time.
No point going too extreme then wearing them out in 3 months mainly on the road.

[stevo as b4]

Probably really basic stuff here,

But keep the bike driving along with the throttle open a bit. And let it go where it wants to go, so this means keeping your arms relaxed and a light grip on the bars, and not fight against its natural course, even if it wants to drop into ruts, let it.

Though different from trials, where you get to walk the course first and feel out with your boots where the ruts are deepest, where there's front wheel swallowing holes, or hidden tree roots to get in the way. You should still be able to look at the course before the start, and if there's other events first, watch some bikes go through these sections, to see where they struggle or what lines work best etc.

I'd be standing up over any slow stuff, it gives you more time to look where your going and also if you hit a big sudden rut or hole, your knees will take the shock, instead of sitting on the seat and then a sudden jolt causing you to get thrown up off the seat, before you know what's happening.

[thx1138]

HOW TO RIDE IN WET TERRAIN & MUD: Cross Training Enduro Skills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SlHGlyzF7w

[chrisdubya]

Only just got round to watching that video but it looks a brilliant help thank you!

I've been out a few more times and each time I'm starting to learn something new. The H&H was definitely walking before I could run but I now feel I could confidently tackle it!

Its taken a while from riding on track where 100% grip is what I'm used to, to making the transition into mud but I'm really starting to love it!

[c_dug]

My first ever foray into off road riding was a three day thing in Spanish rural mountains on KTMs, with three blokes who had ridden off road before, plus the guy who ran the company.

I know the "out of my depth" feeling well!

By the last day I had it nailed though, I was one of the quickest in some bits, and the only person to tackle the biggest hill of the week

Anyway, being rural Spain it was very dry, so muddy ruts aren't something I tackled much, but basically being successful at anything at all was down to trusting the bike and letting it go where it wants. Big ups. Big downs. Big rocks. Big rivers. Trust the bike. Add throttle. Sorted.

I could plough over a road composed of boulders the size of melons in that way, I'm sure a muddy rut would work the same
____________________
I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[c_dug]

Oh also, my weight had to be so so so much further forward for most riding than I had figured. Literally nuts on the headstock. Seriously impressive grip on loose surfaces like that though.
____________________
I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[chrisdubya]

Yes - what you say makes sense as well!

I've learned that momentum is key and instead of trying to pick my way through things (like climbing banks when leaving rivers for example) giving it a handful of throttle really helps!! Again, its a learning curve.

Also done a bit of stubble field riding, which turned very, very slippery, and again like you say weight forward is key. I actually thought I had my weight forward as was really struggling with grip and wondered why, but I glanced down and saw a good 9" between my legs (I wish ) and the tank! Virtually sitting on the tank helped loads

[stevo as b4]

There's lots of tips, techniques and advice for off road riding in varying types of terrain. Even how you set the bike up, and using different tyre pressures for different types of surfaces and obstacles etc.

Confidence and trust in the bike, and not being afraid to use the throttle in what seems like tricky or scary conditions are a good first step.

For the low speed picking your way through steep tree-lined tracks etc, then practicing your low speed balance is a big big help. Being able to stop and look at the best line, or adjust the position of the bike without putting your feet down really helps too.

Then practice unloading the front wheel and the rear, so that you can pop the front wheel up at will, to clear a large obstacle like a rock step or boulder is helpful too. The same goes for transferring weight over the front and being able to get the weight off the rear wheel, so that it can lift up over the same obstacle, without slamming hard into it and causing you to stop.

Practice trying to find grip on muddy hills, so that when you can't use momentum as your friend, you know how best to keep traction while driving it up the slope under power.

Different bikes need different techniques to get the best chance of grip on slippery surfaces. And the ancient statement of 'look where you want to go, not in front of the front wheel' really helps off road too.

[chrisdubya]

Another helpful one thank you like you say I have also recently been learning to pop the front with a whiff of clutch to get me over logs and little sharp dips.

I've also realised that my bike is massively over-geared, so I'm going to change that which will also help matters.
There's a wood near me which I have permission for, which has technical bits, hill climbs, a river, a jump, decents, generally a good place to hone my skills.

It's safe to say I'm absolutely loving it. Love the learning, the riding, the sliding, the falling off in mud, the easiness of jumping on and going to play. So much so I'm selling my R1!

[thx1138]

my main problem is under or over popping the front wheel, often end up on my arse

[thx1138]

someone I know failing to get grip on a hill (hills are steeper than they look on video)

and then I smugly rode past

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TG3mKQrOQg


edit: just closed my youtube account, they moved the goalposts too much and annoyed me. Vid in link in sig, if anyone cares

[chrisdubya]

Looked like he was getting there in the end!

So frustrating when the camera takes away just how steep stuff is