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Why do Insurers hate me...I urgently need advice

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Big8lack
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Joined: 25 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Why do Insurers hate me...I urgently need advice Reply with quote

Here's a bit about me just for some context:
So I'm 6ft6, 36" inseam. I turned 21 in December 2017, I've been riding since February 2016. I have owned/currently still own a 2009 Honda XL Varadero 125(the only respectable 125 that fits me). I passed my progressive licence (a2) in December 2017. I live in the middle of London and my property doesn't have a locked garage so I literally leave my bike on the road (but it's ALWAYS locked up like Fort Knox). I've recently discovered the only style of bike I'll ever want is a naked bike. I've sat on the Mt-07 & XSR700 (way too small), I started looking at the HD Street Rod (weird footpeg positioning), I've sat on the z800e (I dwarf the bike and my legs don't fit the tank comfortably) However, I've sat on the new 2018 Z900(a2 compliant) and it feels perfect.

Now here's my real problem. Although the bike is literally brand new and costs about £8,400.00 I am more than comfortable to finance it. The issue is though, most insurers don't even return quotes for me (prob based on my age, the number '900' and the fact that I've been riding for just over 2 years). I've had no accidents, no claims, as perfect as you could want you're record to be. But the insurers that do return quotes for me come back with crazy numbers for TPF&T like £5,000-£8,000. It's not a bike any human is brave enough to go for TPO and even then the quote still sits around £5,000. I've got trackers, alarms, ground anchors, more chains than Kunta Kinte (not racist, I too am black) and the bike is datatagged.

What I'm looking for is either tips/suggestions on how to get the insurance down and what do I need to do or what alternative bikes to look at.

The reason why I'm looking at 900's/800's etc is because once I've suffered the restriction period I want to keep the same bike and not have to go bike shopping again. I rider literally all year round and it involves commuting & Social things so I cover around 5-6,000/year. I was also thinking of riding to Italy this year but we'll see...I DETESTE the idea of 'moving up' to a 300-500 as the thought of getting bored and shelling out again pains me. Based on my frame to, there isn't many smaller CC bikes that comfortably fit me besides adventure/supermotos (which I'm no longer interested in)

The Dorsoduro 750/Hypermotard 1100 & 796 are out of the question because WTF does a 12L tank even mean in the real world. The CB500F started to kill my lower back on my MOD 2, the CB650F just looks bland, and the Street Triple 660 version is as costly as the Z900.
The XJ6...mehh... I have a certain distrust for smaller manufacturers like 'Benelli' and Hyosung. The Duke 690 is too small and so is the SV650. ABS is a preference not a necessity and I'm not the biggest fan of rider aids ('help'...not the disease).

Any help will be much appreciated!!!!!! Thumbs Up Very Happy
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

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doggone
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping it in the middle of London might have something to do with it.
Everyone knows your bike will be stolen every couple of weeks.

Seriously they are only coming up with the quote based on risk, it's not that they don't like you.
All you can do is shop around for best quote and build up no claims - or move, or buy a less expensive and desirable bike.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

1/ You are under 30
2/ You live in London
3/ You only have on-street parking
4/ Your riding career / length of licence validity & NCB history is NOT that long.
5/ You are getting quotes on the 'larger' displacement bikes
6/ More, larger displacement bikes that TO insure, you have to declare mods to, ie 'A2 restriction'
7/ You are declaring brand-new list price values that instantly ramp premiums
8/ I suspect, you are declaring daily commuting & consequentially high anticipated annual mileage
9/ I suspect you are declaring bike sole, first or man meas of every day transport.
10/ your young dumb and a fool is easily parted from thier money...

OK, I have padded the list a little to make up the 10..... BUT.

First up forget new bikes. If you cant afford to pay cash on the nose, you probably cant afford it, and it will bite you in the bum on almost inevitable insurance clam, where after paying big money on the credit for the bike, and more installments on the insurance, you will likely be left in a big hole, when ins-co pays out 2nd hand value of the bike, that doesn't cover the cost of the outstanding credit on ether the bike, or the unpaid portion of the insurance policy.. specially after likely punitive policy excesses.

Older, less valuable bikes are cheaper to insure, end of.

You cant do anything about your age, or how long you have held a licence, except get old... which being old I must say is certainly an option, but other than offering low insurance rates doesn't have much else to merit it....

You could consider moving out of London... and that's an option that is worth considering.... I live in the midlands on a main-line railway station, and can get to Eusto every day if wanted in less time, than my Auntie can get across the river from Peckham! And pobably more cheaply than paying the congestion zone charge and parking! And a 3-bed house with garage here, probably costs less than leasing an 8x10 lock-up down there! I will leave that suggeston hanging, I doubt you can countenance it.. few landaners can, it seems! But still.

6'6" and 34" side leg... that's not too gynormouse... I'm 6'2" & 34" inseam.... do you have the waste measurement to match? Incidentally I always struggle to get trousers that reach my socks, or a waste band I have to gather in half a foot with a belt!! But still....

I ride little bikes.... I have a photo some where from when I pcked up my VF-Though a couple of decades ago, that had a conveniently tall 34" seat height and a god reach to the bars, and was about the first thing that 'felt' like I fitted... photo'though still shows that I look rather like a gorilla on a childs push-bike! All I can say is learn to live with it... all bikes, like off the peg trousers are built around 'standard' sizes based on normal size and proportion people ...

What it looks like matters little, to any-one but you, and that's only if you ride around checking yourself out in shop windows! Most of the time we are luck if other road users who should be looking out for us even see us and dont run us over and then say SMIDSY! No one else matters much, and if they even bother to look, most of the time,how 'cool' or 'stylish' you think you look, wont even cross their mid... they will think you look daft... why ride a motorbke, and get cold and wet and risk the smidsy, when 'sensible' folk drive a car, or take the tube, or the bus, or whatever!

So pick bike by whether it fits half comfortably, and whether you can afford to run it, cash on the nose.... sod what you think it looks like, or what you think you look on it..

And as wth very-oh-dearo 125, the size of bike is rarely related to the size of fire hole in the engine.... some bikes wth big eges are more cramped than mopeds, or vica versa....

Naturally a2 complient bikes now are a little more common, and don't limit you to just 250/300 commutery things. Do some research see what you could have wthout restriction, and there will likely be a lot, and it will likely be cheaper and easier to insure.

Power Restrictions are often considered a mod, and at best, just wont put the insurance premium up; they will rarely put it down. But there is a balancing act to finding what is cheaper and easier to insure between naturally a2 complient bikes, and A2 restricted.... yo will just have to do the home-work on the topic... but f you go for a restricted to A2 bike, the less elevated its spec to start with, the more likely you are to get better price on it.

As to not wanting to have to trade up... yeah.... in an ideal world mate... the likelihood as hinted at by astronomical insurance s that in all likelihood IS that long before the HP is paid off that bike is gong to either be crashed or nicked or both.... you really shouldn't be too bothered about the 'long term' investment here... and another reason to dodge a credit plan.

Its first big-bike, hassle and cost of of chopping and changing if you want something different IS in the balance likely pretty small cost and or hassle you are likely to face.

Another plus point for a older cash bought bike... after 3years the depreciation drops considerably, you will loose a heck of a lot less money on it, as well as save on the lower value influencing ins-prems.

Its also a HECK of a lot less 'risk' to have sat outside o on-street parking.

Here, I would 'guess' an old beater of a dispatch hack like a CB500 or simlar, would make a heck of a lot of sense on the numbers. Cash buy would likely be less than one years depreciation, let aloe interest charges o a rand new pose-machine.. you could run it for a year and afford to throw it away and still be quids in on comparison. Even more so on risk of being nicked, cost of a claim putting up your ext premium, plus value of bike after policy excess's making it likely cheaper just to accept the risk ad possible loss than try cover it... meanwhile gaining NCB and A2 licence history, that will help lower premiums on next bike.

As to your colour..... so what? I have been doing this biking thing an awful long time, and the old Two-Tone 'Tic-Toc' was for half a decade my 'local'.... (When it wasn't closed down!) and have watched local jolly-boys get their licences on a scooter, and the in mid life, swap their faded parka for a leather and the Vespa for a Honda, and bring their NF leaflets to the bike meets instead!!!!!

Who knows how 'racist' any-one is... I'm a red-head.. you wouldn't believe the ginga prejudiced we get! Lol!

Seriously, take it off the table mate; I have shared houses with West Indians, Chinese, Greeks, Indans, etc etc etc...... and I have been astounded how many 'racsts' there have been within such ethnic groups, honestly.... the up-front white NF flag wearing skin-head, HAS in my experience, often and ironically been the most racially tolerant, sat down with a Rum & Coke, watching a band... for all the anti-social icons... and at least you can tell who the heck they are!

Fact you deem it worth the mention, actually shows more your own racist attitudes, than any-one elses, in my opinion, but still... just park it, it shouldn't be an issue, don't make it one!

Wot? you all me a Ginga! Who you calling Ginga you racist! You'll be saying I like Harleys next! Lol. Its a non issue, it really is.... or should be!

Back to bikes... just set your sites a bit lower and cut cloth to suit your purse, and and dont sweat the small, stuff.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

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struan80
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad I live in the middle of no where as sheep don't steal bikes so insurance is relatively inexpensive thankfully.

Unfortunately you're young and with no garage you're going to be paying out big time on insurance. If I was you I'd get an older bike. Best of luck to you.

Tef that is a well written novel Smile
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the middle of London is the no.1 premium loader in this case. Try fictionally living in the Yorkshire dales or rural Wales for your next quote.

I think anyone with a brain really needs a shitter of a bike in London town, as you'll never keep it safe or guard adequately against theft. Add in all the traffic incidents, people out to make personal injury claims that you mowed them down, and all the rich enough to not give a shit twats, who keep having their Panigale R's stolen from the street like it's just a can of coke, before buying another one.

Get a nice bike and get out of London, or stay and ride a cheap shitter you can afford to lose is probably the only two options you have.
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vp1977uk
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better off renting a garage for £50pm on the outskirts to store your bike to bring the insurance down. Maybe find some like minded people to split the costs of renting a garage.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Why do Insurers hate me...I urgently need advice Reply with quote

A brand new Z900 would be gone in 60 seconds in London. Literally. That's how long any chain lasts against an angle grinder, and mummy's little angels in London are all packing those now.

Sorry, chap, it's all part and parcel of living in a big city.

You can try fiddling with the quotes. One thing to try is not listing any security at all. Crazy? I had a lowest quote go up by 1/3rd when adding security to it. Insuramaths uses irrational numbers. Low mileages, high mileages, different occupations, higher excess, no excess, add commuting even if you don't need it, add business use, try every combination as long as it's plausible.

The spoiler is that you'll want to change after 2 years, so all you need is a 595cc+ 40-70kW 180kg+ bike that you can 'restrict' for A2, 'derestrict' in the test centre car park and use to pass your A tests, then buy anything you like (and can insure).

You'll need post 2007 for ULEZ mugging, but the hackier the better, and I'd suggest considering a naked adventure.

Could you stomach a Versys or V-Strom 650?
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 25 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you trust your security

suck it up and buy an older second hand machine, and get 3rd party only insurance
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 02:29 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried asking the dealer? Say you'd love to buy their brand new bike but can't afford to insure it. Sometimes manufacturers will offer insurance deals.

Can't hurt to ask.

Also, you run comprehensive quotes? I'm an old bastard and comp is usually cheaper than TPF&T these days.

Anyway. You're to big for that bike too. Go sit on a tiger or a GSX1300.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Go sit on a tiger or a GSX1300.

GSX1300 is too powerful for an A2. Tiger 1050 and Bandit 1200 as well.

Hmm, the 2011 onwards Tiger 800 appears to just squeak under the limit. F800GS as well, but then you're a GS tosser.

I'd ask if he's considered a TDM, but I think they were killed off by Euro3.

OP needs:

2007 on.
40kW to 70kW and restrictable or 'restrictable' to 35kW.
595cc+
180kg+ (the new minimum weight for an A test bike by the time he does his A tests).
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colink98
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have thought that if your giving them buggers 5k they would love you like a bother and invite you round for xmas dinner.

its us old riders of boring ass bikes that hate.
my £130 yearly contribution isn't going to buy them a nice holiday is it.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to echo everyone else, it's London and you don't have secure parking. You are fucked. I'm quite surprised that they even bother to quote you at all.

No easy answer except a shitty old hack, which isn't what you want, or move.
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ringsound
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Go sit on a tiger or a GSX1300.

GSX1300 is too powerful for an A2. Tiger 1050 and Bandit 1200 as well.

Hmm, the 2011 onwards Tiger 800 appears to just squeak under the limit. F800GS as well, but then you're a GS tosser.

I'd ask if he's considered a TDM, but I think they were killed off by Euro3.

OP needs:

2007 on.
40kW to 70kW and restrictable or 'restrictable' to 35kW.
595cc+
180kg+ (the new minimum weight for an A test bike by the time he does his A tests).

https://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/1000_1x_/public/images/2017/04/ducati-multistrada-1100-studioa.jpg?itok=SNTVYDAd&fc=50,50 Laughing Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ringsound wrote:


No danger of that being stolen.

You would have to put up with the constant cries of 'Arrrgh, my eyes. Plass me some bleach' every time you ride it though.
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ringsound
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
ringsound wrote:


No danger of that being stolen.

You would have to put up with the constant cries of 'Arrrgh, my eyes. Plass me some bleach' every time you ride it though.

seriously i dont know what bike is safe to park in london anymore
I lost a VFR800 vtec with HISS, abus big chain on "ground anchor" some years ago
even a Chinese made 125 will be stolen pretty quick in London now, sadly Sad Sad

it is ugly no double, but the handling is very nice too
this is a bike i always have conflict with, I ride it many time, and i absolutely love riding it, but everytime i look at it, just...er....... Laughing Laughing

OP try getting a used bike you like, a brand new bike with high market value will always end up higher premium. You are young and inexperience rider + living in london. I couldn't figure out anyway to lower the premium other than finding a cheaper bike
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ringsound wrote:

even a Chinese made 125 will be stolen pretty quick in London now, sadly Sad Sad



Sadly, my brother still has his divvy and he lives in Deptford. This may have something to do with the fact he works as a bouncer, though.
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ringsound
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
ringsound wrote:

even a Chinese made 125 will be stolen pretty quick in London now, sadly Sad Sad



Sadly, my brother still has his divvy and he lives in Deptford. This may have something to do with the fact he works as a bouncer, though.

my friend lock a LML on street and went for holidy
when he came back, the LML was still there, part of it, we lived in hounslow when it happen, but he is no bouncer or bodyguard any source, more a IT-guy
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andys675
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm used 650 versys?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much actual money do you have for a bike? You'll probably have to go TPO, I've gone F&T a couple of times but that included lying about having a garage Embarassed, so decide how much you can afford to lose.

MCE are the only one who seem interested in insuring Londonites, someone on here who parked on street in central London said they were the only insurer who would insure him, they're the only ones still giving me competitive quotes.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 26 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread needs more mpd72.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 27 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

AldridgePrior wrote:
Asks advice then doesn't reply.


Might now though. Rolling Eyes


didn't like the answers he got saying its because its London

he is off telling him mum we are nasty people who said no Laughing Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 27 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

No fair LARPing mpd72. Tut Tut

It's a sad state of affairs and all that, but I'm baffled by how you could live in London and even consider leaving a brand new bike out on the street.
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