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Are helmet cams legal in the UK? (side mount)

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wr6133
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's legal to stick it on your lid. If the mood takes you you can also glue on a 12" black rubber cock.

When you crash the camera mount snaps off as they are made from fairly flimsy plastic.

Proper 3M pads remain in place at 170 MPH (tested this). Cheap shit fake 3M pads from fleabay send your camera flying away at about 120 MPH (I lost an SJ4000 this way, well I lost it but I think the Audi behind me may have gained it).
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trucks are made from tape these days. Thumbs Up
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Trucks are made from tape these days. Thumbs Up


YFPOS.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You fucking piece of shit karma whore.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it seems that they are not illegal.

However, just to poke the hornets' nest, how safe are they? Sure, they will let your grieving family know if you were right or wrong to go under the truck, but might they actually contribute to injuries?

Helmets are designed to work as they are - this includes how they slide down the road and how they absorb impacts. A sticky-out protrusion could well offer a leverage point to induce a rotation of the helmet beyond what your neck can withstand. Or the camera and/or mount might offer an impact site for something to snag on, along with extra materials to facilitate punching through the shell.

Proper over-thinkers will also cite the extra fatigue they might cause due to extra weight, noise and aerodynamic drag. Of course all this will be countered by real world experience of "dint never do nuffin to me", but this may be what's known as 'getting away with it' rather than genuine no-harm.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lid/bike cams are very popular these days, I'm sure the nanny state would ban them immediately if they were
adding to or worsening injuries, they've been popular for long enough now to have had an impact on the stats.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

weasley wrote:
Smight they actually contribute to injuries?

Sure, they might. But the range of impact energies where a lid makes a difference to your chance or survival or non-potato is so narrow that it's not a big consideration for me.

Remember when Schumacher got potatoed and there was a flurry of "it was definitely the GoPro because he was wearing a camera maybe"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/michael-schumacher/10640839/Michael-Schumacher-skiing-crash-did-helmet-camera-cause-head-injuries.html

If anyone can find the result of the investigation, that would be super.

https://www.ensa.sports.gouv.fr/index.php/recherche?searchword=schumacher&searchphrase=all

What we can say for sure happened is that GoPro's sales slumped: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gopro-stocks/journalist-links-gopro-camera-to-schumachers-injuries-shares-fall-idUSKCN0I226D20141013

And they were not happy about it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2014/10/15/gopro-may-pursue-legal-action-against-journalist-for-false-schumacher-crash-accusations/#7c64d9882635

And Frenchie Le Journo recanted, passing off his statements of fact as opinions and Rainpal®-truths: https://mpora.com/skiing/schumachers-son-didnt-blame-gopro-injuries-tweets-french-journalist

But you didn't see that in the headlines.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schumacher was potatoed four years ago now and apparently the care bills have passed £20 million. Shocked

For approximately £110,000 - £130,000 you could be the new owner of the Ferrari team bus motorhome...

"This Iveco Domino Orlandi-bodied motor coach was custom built for Scuderia Ferrari's Formula 1 operations in 2001 and remained in service with them until the end of the 2005 season. This was a period during which Ferrari dominated Formula 1, its lead driver Michael Schumacher securing the last four of his seven World Championships (2001-2004). "

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24882/lot/423/
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

bikes are inherently dangerous (or we wouldnt get the thrill no?)

we wear helmets as it is the law and also the added bonus of if we have a low-ish speed crash we won't get potatoed.

in the grand scheme of things a camera on the lid is going to make ~0.1% (worse) difference in a crash.
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arry
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
bikes are inherently dangerous (or we wouldnt get the thrill no?)

we wear helmets as it is the law and also the added bonus of if we have a low-ish speed crash we won't get potatoed.

in the grand scheme of things a camera on the lid is going to make ~0.1% (worse) difference in a crash.


That sounds very scientific. Science it for me, please.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

think about it - if anything the camera is just a more expensive bit of crumple zone - and thats assuming its ultra fixed on
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's sort of right I suppose.

It's very unlikely to cause actual "extra" damage.. but in a specific crash at a specific angle. (I believe) There would be instances where wearing a GoPro would add more damage to an otherwise survivable impact.

No scientific data to back this up - it's just my opinion. 👍

I use a side mounted SENA - smaller and lighter than a GoPro and it looks like it would crumple if it had an impact. - plus no danger of it impacting on the skull where it is mounted.
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
and thats assuming its ultra fixed on


You should be the new presenter of Mythbusters with all the sciency talk
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
think about it - if anything the camera is just a more expensive bit of crumple zone - and thats assuming its ultra fixed on


That depends on the camera. My older GoPro in its protective waterproof case / mount is a solid bit of kit. Think about how many YouTube vids that exist where a GoPro has had an impact and gone bouncing down the road at 70mph and still been recording.
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arry
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpsmith79 wrote:

You should be the new presenter of Mythbusters with all the sciency talk


Ash is Science Aarons and I claim my 5 ponds.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair my brother is called Aaron Very HappyVery Happy :facepalm:
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TheDaveStream
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
It's legal to stick it on your lid. If the mood takes you you can also glue on a 12" black rubber cock.

When you crash the camera mount snaps off as they are made from fairly flimsy plastic.

Proper 3M pads remain in place at 170 MPH (tested this). Cheap shit fake 3M pads from fleabay send your camera flying away at about 120 MPH (I lost an SJ4000 this way, well I lost it but I think the Audi behind me may have gained it).


The camera I got was from Amazon (CamKong c180) the pads clearly say 3m though had not occured they may be fake.
Though to be honest if my little 125 scooter is doing 120mph+ I will have bigger issues than "is my camera still attached, or do i need to ask the nice guy behind me for it back?"
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iooi
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDaveStream wrote:

The CEO told me that it was illegal to walk the pavement like that unless the bike was broken down.


Kill switch on or pull plug cap off.......

Laughing
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDaveStream wrote:
Commuter_Tim wrote:

It's a lot like Sparta, except with more cats and penises.

Wait there`s cats?! awesome.


The cat's and penises are usually a package deal....

I'm sure Ste will be along soon enough to "explain" it.
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TheDaveStream
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
TheDaveStream wrote:

The CEO told me that it was illegal to walk the pavement like that unless the bike was broken down.


Kill switch on or pull plug cap off.......

Laughing

Tbh from searching the ceo was wrong, it is legal to push your bike so long as it is off and you are not sat on it.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDaveStream wrote:
it is legal to push your bike so long as it is off and you are not sat on it.

Selby vs DPP implies as much, but isn't explicit: https://swarb.co.uk/selby-justin-v-director-of-public-prosecutions-qbd-1994/

R vs MacDonagh has some bad news though. "The essence of driving is the use of the driver’s controls in order to direct the movement, however that movement is produced" (this also gives the lie to the CEO's jibba jibba about it being OK if you're "broken down"): https://swarb.co.uk/regina-v-macdonagh-ca-1974/

If you're going to do it, then you might consider taking your helmet off since that highlights the Protective Helmets regulations definition of "being propelled by a person on foot." Although that doesn't necessarily mean that you're not also "driving" it: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1807/regulation/4/made
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TheDaveStream
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
TheDaveStream wrote:
it is legal to push your bike so long as it is off and you are not sat on it.

Selby vs DPP implies as much, but isn't explicit: https://swarb.co.uk/selby-justin-v-director-of-public-prosecutions-qbd-1994/

R vs MacDonagh has some bad news though. "The essence of driving is the use of the driver’s controls in order to direct the movement, however that movement is produced" (this also gives the lie to the CEO's jibba jibba about it being OK if you're "broken down"): https://swarb.co.uk/regina-v-macdonagh-ca-1974/

If you're going to do it, then you might consider taking your helmet off since that highlights the Protective Helmets regulations definition of "being propelled by a person on foot." Although that doesn't necessarily mean that you're not also "driving" it: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1807/regulation/4/made


https://www.whitedalton.co.uk/motorbike-blog/2017/03/can-ride-pavement/

this is one of the ones I came cross in my reserch

"Can you push your bike on the pavement? Yes, but you need to be pushing it, not straddling and paddling it. If you straddle and paddle, the law has determined (In the way that only judges can) that you have ‘control’ of the machine and are therefore ‘riding’ it – but if you are to one side of it and pushing It you are not in control. So if you have to move an uninsured or otherwise non-street legal bike, push it but do not straddle It."

In this case I was holding the handlebar with on the left and the back rail. I did have my helmet on but that was more due to a lack of anywhere to put it beyond the conviently shaped storage post between my shoulders. Its a tricky thing as I did what I did not to expedite my journey but because I was lost, stressed and not in a fit state to try and find a road way then and there.

Its a damn minefield
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Schumacher was potatoed four years ago now and apparently the care bills have passed £20 million.


£20 million? Surely you only need to water him every now and then.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a lot of time for Andrew Dalton, but I don't believe that he's citing any case where it's actually been held that standing to the side and pushing is not riding (or driving). I infer that he's inferring that from Selby.

I say that, but I'd be fairly confident that pushing should be OK. I've done it a few times recently to get past a road closure, opposite a cop shop. Fists were shaken by a jobworth in a hi-vis, fvcks were not given.

Also, this morning someone who was not me shortcutted via a hundred yards of pedestrian zone for the lulz of it. Everyone know a chap who knows a fellow who was fined three shillings for it in 1969, but it's really not that high risk an activity in these days of camera-driven reactive policing.
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SDFarsight
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 31 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDaveStream wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Now there's just the question of if you want to strap a device containing a lithium battery to your head.
weird strange rules about walking with your bike


As long as the engine is off and you don't do anything stupid (pulling your Hayabusa down aisle 4 of Sainsbury's), walking with your bike is 100% legal.
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