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Cleaning your cycle

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Jamieking86
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 09:40 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Cleaning your cycle Reply with quote

Hi guys, how often do most of you clean your bike? I noticed recently there's some rust building up on the underneath of the bike with the salt and crap coming off the winter roads. I cleaned it the other day and sprayed the muc off protection thing on to stop as much salt and dirt etc? But how often should i do this? I'm new to riding so even in the winter months, if it's dry and above 5 degrees I usually go out for a little ride until i can't feel my toes or fingers. Also how could i get rid of the rust? Seen some youtube vids where people use coca cola......really? Shocked
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acid chemically reduce rust. Anything that will rot your teeth will de-rust your bike. I use vinegar.

As to how often you should gloop it, as often as it pleases you. I just slap on some ACF-50 and then ignore it until spring (i.e. July).
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Acid chemically reduce rust. Anything that will rot your teeth will de-rust your bike. I use vinegar.


I'm convinced it doesn't.

It does remove rust but that's not how. Iron (II) oxide is very stable and formed by a complex third order reaction with at least two intermediaries. I seriously doubt a weak acid like ethanoic acid is capable of grabbing oxygen off a rust molecule. I have my doubts if even a strong one is capable of reducing iron oxide much. I believe a combination of conc nitric and HCl will do it. Even chlorine triflouride doesn't interact with iron oxide much and it'll set concrete on fire. Reducing iron oxide is a process that takes an enormous amount of energy ie a blast furnace.

So why does it work? I presonally reckon it's all about the corrosion interface. At the level of the clean iron there is a constant oxidisation process, almost like a conveyor belt of rust moving up from the metals surface. The corrosion is stuck to the metal surface but not well stuck.

Relevant fact: Ferric acetate is water soluable. So. Put rusty metal in vinegar and it will start to corrode the surface of the metal BUT it will form ferric acetate, not iron oxide at that corrosion interface. The ferric acetate forms a water soluable layer under the rust. The rust washes off, as does the ferric acetate leaving you with clean metal.

Different mechanism with coca cola. That's phosphoric acid. Iron phosphate is insoluable, very unreactive and adheres tightly to the surface of the metal. So phosphoric acid causes a layer of iron phosphate to form at the corrosion interface. This again causes the rust to loosen and fall off. The iron phosphate remains bonded to the surface of the metal as a black layer which inhibits further corrosion. It's the black anodising you sometimes see on nuts and bolts.

However, both processes need time or a dangerously strong version of the acid.

OP would be better cleaning his bike down with paraffin and a paintbrush then hosing it off then applying a corrosion inhibitor. What's rusting though? If it's nuts and bolts, as above. If it' s the frame, the paint layer is compromised and may need prepping and re-painting. If it's the exhaust, depends what it's made of and finished with (chrome, black paint?).

Try it. Put a rusty bolt in a jam jar of vinegar. It'll come out clean after a couple of days but the surface of the metal will be pitted and the rust itself will be sat in the bottom of the jar (I'm doing it mysef now with the crankcase bolts on my enfield. Then I'm going to do them in phosphoric to stop them rusting again.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Re: Cleaning your cycle Reply with quote

Jamieking86 wrote:
Also how could i get rid of the rust?


There's only one way how to get rid of the rust and that is actually getting rid of it. Sandpaper, filler, paint, clear coating. For black parts under the bike, I would be tempted to use the ''car undercarriage coating'', which leaves a rubbery surface, seals the metal inside = very durable and flexible (hard to chip/crack the coating), not nice to look at. It's mostly on cars.

To prevent rust, you want to make sure there is no standing water anywhere on the bike, which in winter contains road salt. The worst case scenario is a small crack in the paint job and water+salt getting between the paint and the painted surface.

You may also do as Roger says, keep your motorcycle greased up. To keep all the cavities rust-free use a specialized wax for that. These things are cheap, compared to rust damage.

The best answer to your question thought would be, have two motorcycles. One to bathe in salt and the other, the nice one, to ride for the pleasure of riding, when the roads are clean.

EDIT: Fun fact! - You can't actually stop nor prevent rusting. The rust crystals are present in the metal long before the manufacturers even use it to make motorcycles/cars. You may only slow down the rust, by removing/reducing the catalysts = water (salt?). Greasy things don't get wet, long before my time people with 4 stroke engine motorcycles even had venting of the crank/head right into the frame, to keep the insides of the frame lubricated = to ''prevent'' rust.

Also, every welded place is very prone to rusting.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Re: Cleaning your cycle Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
rust crystal

Wut?
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Re: Cleaning your cycle Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
RhynoCZ wrote:
rust crystal

Wut?


I ment it's already in the crystal grid (crystalline grid?) of the metal.

Either way, you can't escape rust, if oxygen ever touched it, in any form. Water only makes the proces much quicker.
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My YBR has been cleaned every week and dried before being covered. I did notice some very minor rusting to a bolt after it was used for a day in torrential rain but has been covered for 2 months and I will look at it again soon and if needs be i will inhibit it to keep it looking nice.

Washed with normal car wash and wax and dried after.
Currently using Turtlewax Gold which turns your sponge and fingernails black.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Re: Cleaning your cycle Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:

Either way, you can't escape rust, if oxygen ever touched it, in any form. Water only makes the proces much quicker.


Fuck me, you'll be going on about chemtrails and how the earth is flat next.

Iron is Iron. Rust is Iron plus oxygen. You have to add oxygen to iron for rust to spread/start. If you put a piece of iron with a speck of rust on it in a vacuum it will not rust any more.

The only reason why iron rusts when in contact with water is because water is H2O, hydrogen PLUS oxygen.

Jesus, mother of god, it's like talking to an american....
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Re: Cleaning your cycle Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

The only reason why iron rusts when in contact with water is because water is H2O, hydrogen PLUS oxygen.


Nope. It's WAY more complicated than that. I did corrosion of steel for my sixth year studies chemistry project and wished I hadn't long before I was halfway through.

But in general, yes, iron will not rust without the presence of water because it's essentially an electrochemical reaction and requires a proton donor to drive it forwards. That's why salt water is even more corrosive.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why is mars red when it famously has no water?
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Pete:"One thing you can count on - if Pol's involved it's bound to go full Jeremy Kyle" Rogerborg:"I took Mrs Borg out for some naughty back alley action on my tiddler."
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So why is mars red when it famously has no water?


That's just flux.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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SDFarsight
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I clean it and put on some ACF-50 but not quite as much as I really should do. It's easy to preach about giving your bike a full clean & service every week when you have a batcave or a nice warm garage, but I've got to dodge traffic on the roadside.
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Dave....
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wash it when its dirty.
Some folk are manky bastards so the dirt tolerance level is a major factor on how often.
Me personally I like my bike/cars/cycles clean as it gives you chance to look over for any problems etc.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So why is mars red when it famously has no water?


Red, you say? Thinking
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Stallion.
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stephen_o wrote:
My YBR has been cleaned every week and dried before being covered. I did notice some very minor rusting to a bolt after it was used for a day in torrential rain but has been covered for 2 months and I will look at it again soon and if needs be i will inhibit it to keep it looking nice.

Obviously you don't do 300 odd miles over five days plus about 50 odd at weekend.
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogeyman wrote:
Obviously you don't do 300 odd miles over five days plus about 50 odd at weekend.


I thought you rode more than me, clearly not. Laughing
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Stallion.
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Bogeyman wrote:
Obviously you don't do 300 odd miles over five days plus about 50 odd at weekend.


I thought you rode more than me, clearly not. Laughing

Let's not go down that road we both know I will slap the freckles off your face.
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun fact, you slap... only girls slap Wub Laughing

But no, seriously... I thought you were a 100+ miles a day rider minimum.
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Stallion.
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Fun fact, you slap... only girls slap Wub Laughing

But no, seriously... I thought you were a 100+ miles a day rider minimum.

Depends where I'm working.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ride a rat - All you do is clean excessive road shit off when it's stopping things from working.

Ride it, not polish it.
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogeyman wrote:

Obviously you don't do 300 odd miles over five days plus about 50 odd at weekend.[/quote]

No I don't now and I wouldn't want to ever again. During the winter the Leaf is able to handle everything and then the YBR will be used for day trips and events which are out of range of the car so having had a rat bike and all the unreliability I had with that I bought something nice and want to do the best I can to keep it that way. It's not just about keeping it clean and rust free - its about paying attention to it so that I hopefully don't come a cropper with rusting radiators etc and if I maintain good habits with this, and regain confidence in reliabilty of bikes and my own manual handling around the yard is ok then maybe I might step back up to a 2 or 4 but I would rather have what I have now and in the condition it is in than what I had before.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogeyman wrote:

Obviously you don't do 300 odd miles over five days plus about 50 odd at weekend.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HdsnJ3V1P3g/VE7Dog6Ud8I/AAAAAAAAfxw/xOMtj1K0V24/s1600/says%2Bhere%2Bthat...%2Bnobody%2Bgives%2Ba%2Bfuck.jpg
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GT200Fan79
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogeyman wrote:

Depends where I'm working.


Must be a shit fucking job if you can’t afford a car.
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Stallion.
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
Bogeyman wrote:

Depends where I'm working.


Must be a shit fucking job if you can’t afford a car.

It would cost me 6 quid a day to park a car in the exact same spot I park my Fazer for FREE.

It would take near an hour to do the same journey it takes me half an hour on my Fazer.

If I had a car I wouldn't use it to get to work.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 02 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree.

Fight for road position, fight for a parking spot, pay more for fuel, double the journey time...

You must be really fucking stupid to drive a car to work.

#JustGeneralisinglikeYouDid
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