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anthony_r6
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Bike licence restriction removal Reply with quote

I got pulled over by the police yesterday for speeding on the motorway. I'm gonna have 3 points and a fine, which is fair enough.

When he was pulling up my details his computer determined that I was still on a restricted licence - and my R6 was a full-powered bike that I shouldn't be riding it (I saw the restriction show up myself). He was cool and I was able to convince him that I'm legally allowed to ride it, but for a split second I thought I was going to have my bike confiscated.

I passed my test in 2011- under the old rules, so my restriction was up after 2 year. I didn't send it off as I was worried about some form of entitlement being lost, or two years of my full licence being wiped, increasing my insurance costs for being a 'new' rider and ultimately didn't think I had to do so, legally.

I'm now thinking of getting this updated (once my points are added), but from a legal perspective, where do we stand? Do we have to send our licence to be updated once the restriction is up?
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are supposed to update your licence as you can be prosecuted for 'not in accordance with your licence', regardless if you were allowed to or not. As far as your licence and the DVLA are concerned you are still restricted until you update the licence to remove the restriction.

I imagine you wont be though, as long as the police dont put it through.
If they do, you're at the mercy of a judge and how he/she sees fit.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your plastic photocard is just a piece of ID. I'd be more concerned that Computer Said No.

When you passed, did DSA Derek shred your photocard, yes or no?

If yes, did you receive a new photocard with category 'A' on it with a '<=25kW' endorsement?

If no, did you send off your pass certificate with a D1 form to DVLA?

If yes, did you get a new photocard?

In no, you're probably stuffed.

However, if you're in possession of a photocard license with that '<=25kW' on it, you should be OK, eventually. Pre 2013, entitlement automagically updated.

Get on here and see what DVLA think your license situation is:

https://www.viewdrivingrecord.service.gov.uk/driving-record/licence-number

I notice that they don't show entitlement history, so I have no idea where Dibble would be getting that from.

Have a shout at them if it's wrong, but I would be very reluctant to send them the original of your pass certificate, as its the only way you can show that you passed your test. I'd probably prefer to hang on to it in case I needed it in court than risk them losing it, or saying "Too late" - and then losing it.
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kawakid
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I passed on a 125 on the old scheme and retained my license for 10 years, then a new one was sent with my start day for A, exactly 2 years after I passed my test.

Never had an issue, but I only showed in to the plod once and that was bikesafe and then I would fully expect a bike cop to know the law.

You don't need to send your license back, just wait.

The issue you might have are now the new rules and people getting confused.

Checkout what you can or can't drive with

https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

kawakid wrote:
I would fully expect a bike cop to know the law.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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anthony_r6
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you passed, did DSA Derek shred your photocard, yes or no?
Yes

If yes, did you receive a new photocard with category 'A' on it with a '<=25kW' endorsement?
Yes

Get on here and see what DVLA think your license situation is:
Picture below

I notice that they don't show entitlement history, so I have no idea where Dibble would be getting that from.
On his computer, it brought up my licence details, it basically said I was still on my restricted licence. I figured this was because I didn't send off my licence after 2 years to get the restriction removed.

Have a shout at them if it's wrong, but I would be very reluctant to send them the original of your pass certificate, as its the only way you can show that you passed your test. I'd probably prefer to hang on to it in case I needed it in court than risk them losing it, or saying "Too late" - and then losing it.
I have both my licence and my certificates from when I passed

https://i68.tinypic.com/illpc4.jpg
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I understood it, the restriction only counts for two years, after which it's ignored - there was no additional test or anything required to loose the restriction, simply remove the restrictor from the bike and crack on. (I passed Nov 2012 on a 125)

The licence information posted above in the thread seems to say:

You can ride a bike bigger than 35kw or with a power to weight ratio above 0.2kw per kg

OR

a motorbike with power not exceeding 35kw...

so as far as I understand, you can ride a full power bike, or if you choose, you can ride a restricted bike.

Just like I can drive a Ferrari F40 on my driving licence, or a punto



could it be that dibble has seen the <25kw on the record and is now more familiar with the A2 licence where you do another test to get the full A?
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P.
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine says;

You can drive a motorcycle of a power exceeding 35kW or with a power to weight ratio exceeding 0.2kW per kg, or A motorcycle of a power not exceeding 35kW with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2kW per kg and derived from a vehicle of more than double its power. A motor tricycle with a power exceeding 15kW

I have a full licence.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 04 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnPhonEh wrote:
On his computer, it brought up my licence details, it basically said I was still on my restricted licence.

I'd bet on him being confused by the mention of "35kW".

Your licence details look OK, except for one thing. If you passed in 2011 I'd expect you to have full A from 2013, like all of us who had 2 years of entitlement stolen.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:37 - 04 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
AnPhonEh wrote:
On his computer, it brought up my licence details, it basically said I was still on my restricted licence.

I'd bet on him being confused by the mention of "35kW".

Your licence details look OK, except for one thing. If you passed in 2011 I'd expect you to have full A from 2013, like all of us who had 2 years of entitlement stolen.


This, when I changed my photo they robbed me of two years worth of entitlement. Gits.
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Irn-Bru
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 04 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I passed in 2009 and the examiner bloke sent off my licence, came back with the 25Kw restriction on. Fast forward to now, renewed my licence recently, came back with a pass date of 2011 which I was expecting as that would be when my restriction ended officially, never mind. Makes it confusing for insurance, I still just put down 2009 as my pass date, got the bits of paper to prove it I suppose.

I wouldn't needlessly send off your licence, who knows what they'll do, I was slightly worried they'd mess mine up or I'd end up being able to drive a lorry magically Liar
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 04 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irn-Bru wrote:
I passed in 2009 and the examiner bloke sent off my licence, came back with the 25Kw restriction on. Fast forward to now, renewed my licence recently, came back with a pass date of 2011 which I was expecting as that would be when my restriction ended officially, never mind. Makes it confusing for insurance, I still just put down 2009 as my pass date, got the bits of paper to prove it I suppose.


I was putting down my original pass date, however my last insurer challenged it and I couldn't find my certificate. They also mailed back to the affect of well you told us you had an unrestricted license, which you do, but it started from this date not your actual pass date.

They just make it up as they go along. Pity they were the cheapest last year really.
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tom_e
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 04 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
I passed in 2009 and the examiner bloke sent off my licence, came back with the 25Kw restriction on. Fast forward to now, renewed my licence recently, came back with a pass date of 2011 which I was expecting as that would be when my restriction ended officially, never mind. Makes it confusing for insurance, I still just put down 2009 as my pass date, got the bits of paper to prove it I suppose.


I was putting down my original pass date, however my last insurer challenged it and I couldn't find my certificate. They also mailed back to the affect of well you told us you had an unrestricted license, which you do, but it started from this date not your actual pass date.

They just make it up as they go along. Pity they were the cheapest last year really.


Makes sense I suppose, just like I couldn't claim to have had a full licence from the date I got my provisional.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 11:36 - 04 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine still states my original pass date, even though they should have taken 2 years.

Seems like some get lucky, some don't. Sad
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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 04 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine has 2 years off my licence, but I always put my test pass as my original date for insurance etc. I've got my original pass certificate I'm sure, as well as an original photocard as I "lost" it.
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eifion
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Mine says;

You can drive a motorcycle of a power exceeding 35kW or with a power to weight ratio exceeding 0.2kW per kg, or A motorcycle of a power not exceeding 35kW with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2kW per kg and derived from a vehicle of more than double its power. A motor tricycle with a power exceeding 15kW

I have a full licence.


Anyone else think that's a really odd way of wording it? Why doesn't it just say "you can ride any motorcycle"
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Popped into the place I did my tests through today on the way to work to ask,

they're under the understanding that once restriction ended you had a full licence and suggested if the police were pushing it then a quick call to someone like white dalton for the free 2 mins as they'll either tell you there's no case to answer or that you need their help to mitigate the penalty
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eifion
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

eifion wrote:

Anyone else think that's a really odd way of wording it? Why doesn't it just say "you can ride any motorcycle"


In fact, I've just checked mine, and it does say almost that.

Mine says "You can drive any size motorbike, with or without a sidecar"

Wonder why it's different?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
I passed in 2009 and the examiner bloke sent off my licence, came back with the 25Kw restriction on. Fast forward to now, renewed my licence recently, came back with a pass date of 2011 which I was expecting as that would be when my restriction ended officially, never mind. Makes it confusing for insurance, I still just put down 2009 as my pass date, got the bits of paper to prove it I suppose.


I was putting down my original pass date, however my last insurer challenged it and I couldn't find my certificate. They also mailed back to the affect of well you told us you had an unrestricted license, which you do, but it started from this date not your actual pass date.

They just make it up as they go along. Pity they were the cheapest last year really.

I think the law is on their side unfortunately, eBike iirc took someone to court and won.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got bored reading the free 'more bikes' newspaper I acquired this morning, it's got a Q&A section supplied by White Dalton with an e-mail for questions (some may find their way into the column) so I've asked the question.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I think the law is on their side unfortunately, eBike iirc took someone to court and won.

To the ombudsman. Who made a bizarre decision since the bike in question was a CD200 Benley-Benley-Benley which would have been ridable from the day the chap passed his (pre 2013) test.

To be grudgingly fair, eBike were one of the very very few insurers who used to list A1, A2 (by which they meant A <= 25kW though) and A as distinct license types. And when I changed from 1 year of "A2" to 0 years of "A" mid-term my premium didn't go up at all (they also used to have no admin charge for online policy changes).

That was then and this is now though, and since most brokers only list "provisional" and "full", I'd cheerfully tell them and the ombudsman to get bent and I'll see them in district court in front of a grown up.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2012/january/jan3012-thousands-unwittingly-uninsured-/
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank fuck I passed my tests before they brought in all this bollocks (and the hazard awareness/theory bollocks)
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kawakid
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My insurance company asks for the date passed.

Hopefully with Brexit and all, we might be able to sort out our motorcycle laws to something more sensible. (No more 50KMh rollox).

Tbh, I actually thought the 33bhp route was a fair one, I got a cg125, learned and passed on that and then a restricted ER5.

The restriction stopped me from going more than around 90 and on my normal blast over the hills, I had to really work at the gear changes. Now it's too easy!
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

kawakid wrote:
My insurance company asks for the date passed.

Hopefully with Brexit and all, we might be able to sort out our motorcycle laws to something more sensible. (No more 50KMh rollox).

Tbh, I actually thought the 33bhp route was a fair one, I got a cg125, learned and passed on that and then a restricted ER5.

The restriction stopped me from going more than around 90 and on my normal blast over the hills, I had to really work at the gear changes. Now it's too easy!


The proposed changes being discussed sound as though they would allow:

pass at 17 on a 125cc,
Day or two's training at 19 to upgrade licence to A2
Day or two's training two years later to upgrade to full A

so, doing away with the repeated tests, possibly making upgrading on a weekend or around shift work / college or whatever, easier
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