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mistermentali... |
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mistermentali... Two Stroke Sniffer
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:48 - 19 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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The spark plug is not fouled because you are running a very lean mixture.
Try applying the choke while riding. You'll feel a very distinctive improvement.
This can not be solved by tuning the carburetor. The mixture screw is for fine tuning only. What you need is to get the ''splashproof cover'' again or change the jet to compensate the higher airflow (give it more fuel).
*EDIT: You can also tape over the filter, covering the same amount the ''splashproof cover'' would. Not perfect, but should do the trick, for a while at least.
**EDIT: Do you still have the original airbox?
https://www.tuningmatters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/spark-plug-lean-rich-optimal-640x360.jpg ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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mistermentali... |
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mistermentali... Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 30 Apr 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 22:51 - 19 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have the whole airbox assembly but I did put some tape over the top end of the filter and it seems to idle better so as soon as I get paid I shall buy the same filter I had before with the cover on. That will mean riding with tape on filter for about a week and a half but your advice about the cause seems spot on.
The cover had holes in the top so I cant be sure just how much air it restricted so I taped just about the top third of the filter. I can't say how it will run until I go work tomorrow but the idle definitely improved so when I get to work I can re adjust the mixture screw if needed.
It may be a temporary fix until new filter arrives but your advice really helped, and you've shown me the cause and how to fix it (new filter or jet) which I shall be doing so thank you again
Dave |
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- Super Spammer
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Bikeless |
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Bikeless World Chat Champion
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:32 - 19 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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You should also know, that running the engine with (very) lean mixture leads to overheating. I would advise you to not ride it. If you decide to ride it regardles of that, bear in mind you shouldn't really push it, so at least avoid constant high speed riding.
To get the best performance, you're going to have to either put it back to the factory specs or pay a specialist for the tune up. You may experiment with various jets and filters yourself, but the question is do you want to?
By the way, your spark plug is already worn by the lean mixture, it won't turn white again. So after you get the ''proper'' filter, don't take the colour of your current spark plug as a indicator of anything, unless you go too far and make it run too rich. In which case the plug will turn black, as seen in the picture above.
mistermentality wrote: | The cover had holes in the top so I cant be sure just how much air it restricted so I taped just about the top third of the filter. I can't say how it will run until I go work tomorrow but the idle definitely improved so when I get to work I can re adjust the mixture screw if needed. |
It's not just about the size of the filter, it's mostly about the material. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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temeluchus |
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temeluchus World Chat Champion
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mistermentali... |
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mistermentali... Two Stroke Sniffer
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Posted: 00:41 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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Hopefully it wont be running lean now, I have a new plug I can put in tomorrow and check to be sure and can buy more plugs when I get my wages and get the filter.
I didnt originally put the filter on for any particular reason other than the airbox was damaged and on the bikes forums, which have shut down now, people said uaing a filter and bigger jet gave it a little more poke which I wanted as before that it only did about 45 to 50 top speed.
Doing that gave me a few mph more and then using a lithium ion battery and changing the sprocket to have a different number of teeth got me cruising at 50 but able to pop up to and hold 56 to 60 if I need to (the manufacturer sells the alternate sprockets for people who want either more speed or better fuel economy, they sell two different sets).
I should clarify the bikes had an air filter for about three years, it isnt a recent change so it already has a larger jet. At the time people on the bikes then forum recommended a 95 jet and that worked great so I just stuck with that.
I will possibly go up to another larger jet once I have the new filter, I thought tan was a good spark plug colour as the ngk website says "In general, a light tan/gray color tells you that the spark plug is operating at optimum temperature and that the engine is in good condition" so I've always run the bike so the plug is an off white to light tan colour but will have to keep it as white as possible, the picture on their site does show a white plug even though the writing says light tan so I seem to have been running a little lean.
In regards to the reply about water in the carb bowl, I had an issue with that a couple of times with previous filters which caused me to get one with a cover so I do check that if I have a problem but its a very good point so thank you, and thanks to all the replies.
I shall run with new plug and see if its running rich or lean, if its still lean I may have to get bus in for a week but will get new filter and if I find it running lean still then a larger jet.
Thanks again,
Dave |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 08:41 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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mistermentality wrote: | on the bikes forums, which have shut down now, people said uaing a filter and bigger jet gave it a little more poke which I wanted as before that it only did about 45 to 50 top speed. |
Well, they said a lot of things there.
Increasing the airflow and up-jetting to 100 and de-catting the exhausts and lengthening the gearing might have got me another few mph out of mine. Or I might have imagined it.
mistermentality wrote: | then using a lithium ion battery |
Aaaaand that's magical thinking. It's a common enough procedure with these bikes.
The best running I got out of it (after de-catting) was with a 95 jet and using the stock airbox but with the foam filter removed and a cone filter placed over the intake nozzle inside the box.
With a cone filter placed directly on the carb, it was a sod to start and liked to die at idle. But on the other hand, you got that... er, meaty induction... uh, roar.
Oh, one thing to check is that you've got a good seal between the filter and carb - it should be good and tight before you do up the Jubilee clip. I'd wrap some tape round the carb intake if it's not.
Or given the price of cone filters, why not try and get a match for the previous one? I'm curious, how did you "break" it? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 11:29 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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I know this isn't a popular answer, but keeping it stock and in a well working order is the way to go here. You were not wrong by thinking the final drive gear ratio would change things up a bit, but you certainly shouldn't put a cone filter there just like that and definitely shouldn't waste money on a fance battery.
Although at the same time, some people are just adventurous. My 67 y.o. neighbor put a quickshifter, power commander and even a turbo on his Ninja 250. All that to get about 60hp (from 29.91hp). But, he does all that because he's an bored engineer in pension. He put a lot of effort, studying and money into his project. He doesn't feck about just to gain extra 5mph, he does that to have some fun. If he wanted to just go faster, he'd buy a faster machine, that doesn't require short service intervals and a lot of fecking around to make it run well.
I say try to put it back to stock (ebay for parts) or pay a specialist to tune it up for you. OR even better, sell it as is and buy something a bit quicker. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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mistermentali... |
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mistermentali... Two Stroke Sniffer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 13:53 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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mistermentality wrote: | How do you de cat the bike, does that involve the exhausts |
https://bikeinabox.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/catalytic-cutting-catastrophe.html
I wouldn't recommend it.
I left the "EGR" in place, given that I reckon it's a SAI. Comes now the holy wars.
All of my fiddling with it was done for a laugh, but honestly, the more I put it back to stock, the better it ran. The only thing I'd unequivocally recommend is a larger front sprocket, not because it gets any more top end, but it makes for a less frenetic ride. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:30 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: | ... but honestly, the more I put it back to stock, the better it ran. |
Are you trying to say that manufacturers, who did the R&D and have all the engineers and facilities, to produce and tune up the engine, know better than the actual owners of those machines? ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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Posted: 14:42 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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RhynoCZ wrote: | Rogerborg wrote: | ... but honestly, the more I put it back to stock, the better it ran. |
Are you trying to say that manufacturers, who did the R&D and have all the engineers and facilities, to produce and tune up the engine, know better than the actual owners of those machines? |
Are you trying to say that manufacturers are not bound by strict emission and noise laws and regulations, which restrict what they can do with an engine?
If it was as simple as you make out, there'd be no market for remapping engines. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:49 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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mpd72 wrote: | Are you trying to say that manufacturers are not bound by strict emission and noise laws and regulations, which restrict what they can do with an engine?
If it was as simple as you make out, there'd be no market for remapping engines. |
Well of course you may modify the engine to run better. But doing so isn't just about sticking in a pod filter, open exhaust system etc. That is why I told OP to either put it back to factory specs or pay a specialist, that knows what to do, to gain the extra power OP is looking for. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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- Super Spammer
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:10 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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mpd72 wrote: | RhynoCZ wrote: |
I .............a specialist, that knows what to do, |
You seem to be an expert on a lot of things in Workshop lately.
Like BMW's running 28psi high pressure cooling systems. |
Did I say that? I don't recall saying that, and if I did why would I use psi?
Be that as it may, I don't have any pictures, so by the rules of the Internet I was a liar.
All that has been done to fix the issue was replacing that allegedly inflated radiator (+ new blades for the visco fan) and there were no such alleged issues anymore. Is it possible the radiator cap failed? Maybe. Does the cap have 2.0BAR release pressure? Sure it should. Did the owner put there a new cap afterwards? I have got no idea, can't remember. Could it be only cheap non OEM radiators are affected? Most likely, as one would assume that at 2.0BAR (not saying the cooling system pressure is 2.0BAR, but only the value of when the cap releases the pressure) the first thing to crack would be the plastic bits of the cooling system.
I have been googling a bit, and as I seem to be not capable of using the right English terminology, all I could find is some people on the Czech BMW forum, where they also solved this issue by just replacing the radiator. Some even suggest to fit the 1.2BAR release pressure cap as a precaution.
EDIT: Using the word ''bulged'' I get some results in English.
For instance: https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/79269-radiator-what-to-look-for/
You, Roger, may give this post ''off topic'' rating, now. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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Posted: 16:41 - 20 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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RhynoCZ wrote: |
Did I say that? I don't recall saying that, and if I did why would I use psi?
Be that as it may, I don't have any pictures, so by the rules of the Internet I was a liar.
All that has been done to fix the issue was replacing that allegedly inflated radiator (+ new blades for the visco fan) and there were no such alleged issues anymore. Is it possible the radiator cap failed? Maybe. Does the cap have 2.0BAR release pressure? Sure it should. Did the owner put there a new cap afterwards? I have got no idea, can't remember. Could it be only cheap non OEM radiators are affected? Most likely, as one would assume that at 2.0BAR (not saying the cooling system pressure is 2.0BAR, but only the value of when the cap releases the pressure) the first thing to crack would be the plastic bits of the cooling system.
I have been googling a bit, and as I seem to be not capable of using the right English terminology, all I could find is some people on the Czech BMW forum, where they also solved this issue by just replacing the radiator. Some even suggest to fit the 1.2BAR release pressure cap as a precaution.
EDIT: Using the word ''bulged'' I get some results in English.
For instance: https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/79269-radiator-what-to-look-for/
You, Roger, may give this post ''off topic'' rating, now. |
The point is that it's not normal for BMW's to run very high pressure cooling systems as you said. If it can distort the bottom (not outwards towards the fan as you said) of the radiator, then no matter how cheap the aftermarket rad, this is still not normal.
The car has a fault which is pressuring the cooling system, often caused by the electronic thermostats failing. These are designed to raise engine temperature at cruising speeds and used mainly on larger engines, to increase economy.
I replaced mine as the electrical heater element in it had failed. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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mistermentali... |
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mistermentali... Two Stroke Sniffer
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mistermentali... Two Stroke Sniffer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 8 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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