Cbt allowed bikes???

[Rogerborg]

[Dave70]

Depending on your age, you may be better off financially, passing your tests and purchasing a bigger capacity bike. That might sound crazy but, as mentioned previously, 125's come at a premium.
____________________
There ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk.

2012: R125 killed by white van. 2016 R125 killed by 30,000 miles of redline. Current: 2016 Kawasaki ER6f.

[kgm]

[M.C]

[Teflon-Mike]

Oh-Kay.. There are 65million people in the UK, and over half of them hold a driving licence.

There are approximately 35 million vehicles, of all types taxed for road use in the UK. Aprox 85% of them private cars... so there's actually a few more cars in the country than people with licences to drive them!

Only 3.5% of road-taxed-vehicles are motorbikes.. that's just over a million motorcycles, of ALL types and displacements.

Curiously, there are actually more people in the UK with a full motorcycle licence, let alone those with provisional entitlement who might ride a 125 on CBT, which is like, well, EVERY BODY! than there are bikes for them to ride!

Sales figures will tell you that about half of all motorcycles sold in the UK, are 'big-bikes' over 125cc... so there's only about half a million learner-legals you might buy or ride. And you want a motorbike...... yeah... same sales figures will tell you that about 2/3 of the learner-legals sold each year are scooters and mopeds.... This means that there are only something like, 150,000 learner-legal motor-bikes in the country...

125's live hard lives! And they are generally owned by know-nothing 'learners' who know about as much about looking after them as they do riding them, and built down to a cost dis-proportionally still higher than their meager performance, performance... they are NOT the most durable machines in existence... ANY of them, let alone debating better QC'd Jap-Brand bikes vs the majority of Learner-Legals built down to an even lower quality level for the Asian markets in China!

The anticipated service life of a 125 is 'around' 7 years or 30K miles.. and many, particularly the lower quality generic chink made offerings, struggle to make even that, an awful lot are 'scrap' at thier first MOT at 3 years...

Little heads-up; many of the generic Chinese offerings are blagged through UK registration procedures on a few loop holes. Many are NOT sold as road going motorcycles, they are sold 'technically' as a box of spare-parts. They are even delivered as such, with instructions to put together, and then 'self registered' by the buyer for road use, on paperwork that declares them to be the same 'type' as already 'type-approved' to avoid SVA testing, and 'brand new', by the importer. It is a dodge to avoid new vehicle tax as well as retain the 3-year MOT exemption of a new vehicle.

The common 'con' though here is, the buyer doesn't always know this... they wheel aparently brand new 'road' bike out of a dealers, and believe they have bought a road-vehicle.. when in fact what they bought was a box of spares... and paid the dealer's mechanic to follow the assembly instructions to turn those bits into a motorbike, and then been given a bunch of paperwork, and told where to sign, for the dealer to post to DVLA in the buyer's behalf, to 'register' as a self-built vehicle!

And dealers have become a lot cuter at hiding that con, where they still employ it; BUT anything that sells for under £1500 'new' is likely still being blagged through the regs.

A lot of these self-registered, dealer assembled 'kit' bikes might struggle to pass a UK MOT the day they are given a number-plate... seriously, I have been brought bikes with delivery miles only on them, that have loose head-race bearings, handle-bars that foul the tank or snag cables, have loose wheel bearings, or missing chain guards, even in one case a missing ruddy split link ON the chain, among other obvious MOT failing faults!

"Take it back the dealer" advice is also not often all that useful in such cases; they argue that the bike was 'accepted' by the buyer... when it was just a kit of bits... what they have done to it since.. in 100 miles is down to them! And the 'warranty' only covers parts... not assembly.... so they may not get much joy having stuff fixed there; the warranty effectively may not be worth the paper its printed on, A-N-D you are reliant on thier good-will for anything... some MAY be helpful... but dont bank on it!

You have been warned!

Back on topic. In total, about 150,ooo 125 motorbikes in this country you might ride. Each has approximately a 7 year service life, and will on average be offered for sale about once every two years. So, 75,ooo 125's might make it into the market place each year.... barely half of them are likely to be advertised; they will instead be traded around works canteens and college car-parks. So you may find possibly 30,ooo bikes, every-where and anywhere from in dealer's showrooms, in the auto-trader, MCN small ads, and all the way down to post-cards in the news-agents, the length and breadth of the country.

At any one time? Well, more sell in the summer months, especially around college start time in September, and in the spring when the sun starts shining, maybe April/May time. But, on average? You will only ever have, maybe 2ooo 125's 'for-sale' in any month, and of them, probably barely 1ooo you will actually find advertised... of THEM... how many will be in expensive paid-for adds in the likes of Auto-Trader or MCN will be few, and you wont find many more in 'free' adds like Gumtree.. which is notorious for stolen bikes and scammers...

But Bottom line... 1000 bikes! Nation wide, you MAY find adverts for... and of them? likelihood that any you DO find are well out of walking distance, or even an easy bus-ride.. and even if you DO luck in and find one you might get to, reasonably easily... there's 30+ MILLION folk in the country who ALL have the licence that would let them ride it; of them, around 100,000 who would want to.. and half of them will have the money to buy it... and they ALL want a bargain... and get disappointed by the general 'state' of offerings when they find them.

Its simple supply and demand.. There are simply about 50 times the number of buyers than bikes for them to buy.... so you WILL pay a premium for a 125, and you WILL have to open your horizons about how much you will have to pay, and how far you may have to travel to find one, and lower your expections on just how 'wonderful' a bike you might get for your money.

It's not like cars, where the market is 'saturated' and there are more available than there are folk who might drive them, and they cant as easily be stuck in a shed or under the stairs when the tax runs out, and old clunkers might be given away to save the Money-With-Menaces demand from DVLA.... A-N-D the streets are litterly littered with examples offered for sale.

You want a bike... you got to do a bit more leg-work, which means getting OFF the internet; looking in newsagents windows at them post-card ads, talking to folk in works canteens or car-parks, using the grape vine to find those bikes NOT generally advertised.

You HAVE to widen the search to a bit further than your local high-street, and be prepared to travel to look at offerings... AND be prepared to travel fast to get to them before other folk with cash in hand do.

A-N-D you have to be prepared for a LOT of frustration, finding old heaps with optimistic price tags, when you get there.. AND be prepared to pay one of those optimistic buy-prices for a bike that's probably NOT your ideal..

CBR's, YZF's, etc... yeah! They are pemium priced japanese brand learner-motorcycles. What's a YZF-R125 these days? A Tad under Five grand in the show-room? There have been plenty of times when YZF's and CBR's have sat on the dealers floor with a price tag higher than something like a CB500 or SV650... and offered on atractive finance terms folk have actually paid it! And interest!

But, the premium Japanese brands account for barely 1/2 of new 125 bike sales, most of them scooters, and most of what's left, the more mundane models like CBF's and YBR's they flog in volume to the CBT schools and commuters, not the inspirational models like the YZF!

Of the very limited offerings on the 2nd hand bike market to start with? There's going to be even less of these sort of bikes to choose from! Even less you might strike a bargain on... A-N-D... this type of bike, selling on looks of assumed 'speed' tend to sell to buyers more concerned with looking cool and going quick than looking after them! They tend to be even more thrashed-trashed-and-crashed than the typical 125 Learner-Legal.

They were NOT a bargain in the show-room. Second hand, the depreciation doesn't make them an awful lot cheaper, and with typical 'wear and tear', even less of a good deal, even at prices higher than that of a 'cheap' chink, brand new, you could just be buying hassle!

Take the hit, and sign on the line, for a new, premium 125 on the knock? End of the day, you aren't buying a bike, you are paying for the privilege of looking after it!

Type will command the highest loading on insurance, so you will likely be paying exhorbitantly for the privilidge of the things upkeep before you begin, and at the end of the day, risk is it WILL be nicked and/or you WILL crash it, and it will be that much more expensive to fix or replace.

It will be far from a 'cheap' motorbike, and with new-bike depreciation chucked into the mix, a very expensive way to pretend to look cool and pretend to go fast...

Really... nothing looks cool with an L-Plate, and few are fooled a 125 is anything more by one! IF they even LOOK, let alone care!

SMIDSY "Sorry-Mate-I Didnt-See-You" is the typical motorcycle accident... if them that are supposed to be looking where they are going and paying attension to other traffic just DONT.. then who else will?

Most REALLY wont give two hoots for how fantastic you think you look. Most, IF they bother to look at all, will merely think "Idiot!" They could even explain it! "WHY would any sane person choose to be out in the wet and the cold and the miserable, dodging myopic bus drivers, when they could be ON that bus, warm and dry and not suffering helmet hair?!?" They will NOT share your fantasies about speed and cool believe me! EVEN if they have the first bit of enthusiasm and know-how for bikes.... "Oh, L-Plate... wanker-wannabee" they will NOT be impressed.

YBR? Anyone looks at that... "Sensible! Cheap reliable wheels that! And just as fast!" Again, IF they have any interest and savvy about bikes... they will understand, and not offered any pretence, see the 'reason' behind it.... Still few who WILL actually look, and even fewer who will know what they are looking at... but still... that more 'sensible' bike will look better to them who do, and care.

And it its all good from there; it will be cheaper to buy, in the show room, and even more so second hand. Better chance its been a bit better looked after, too, and it will be cheaper to insure, cheaper to fix and maintain, and go just as slow... still probably wont be much of a bargain... B-U-T... can still beat bus-fares if you have a LITTLE bit of savvy and dont thrash, trash and crash the thing.

But it IS all about getting your expectations in line with reality... paying your money and taking your chances.

If you are old enough to get an A2 licence or full ride-what-you-like 'A' then, dodging the learner-legal mire altogether; paying up front to do a course and get a full licence and then a big bike has a LOT to offer.

Because far fewer folk have licences to ride them, and so many more who do, dont just want 'cheap wheels' to get to work, but a toy for the week-end, there's plenty more big-bikes on offer; as they are more often owned by not so know-nothing riders, and far more often 'pampered' play-things cosseted in garages most of their life, only used on high-days-and-holidays, you stand far better chance of finding a bike that's in much better general condition for your money, and often a lot LESS money, both to buy AND insure, than you will looking at Learner-Legal 125's.

The insurance on my 750, is about 2/3 the price each year than it is on my 125... with a full licence, JUST because its not a 125 and in the highest crash and theft claim band.

Take the loading on younger, newer riders, AND the loading on unqualified provisional licence holders, and IF you are old enough to get a licence for a bigger bike, that alone, can off-set the price of a DAS course to get the licence to ride one, very quickly. Picking cheaper big bike, then can add even more to that.

A-N-D, it doesn't matter how 'fast' a YZF-R125 may look... it ISN'T! And never will be!

The fastest of the fast 125's, were the Cagiova Mito and Aprillia RS125 two strokes; in truly unrestricted form, where they 'just' about scraped 30bhp and a few might have managed to crack a genuine 100mph. Both hold Production bike 125 speed records of just about 101mph from different accrediting bodies, to claim to be the makers of the ton-up-tiddler, but they were specially prepared limited production models. Most over the counter examples could rarely crack the ton... got close... as long as they didn't blow up... BUT... that's the fastest of the fast... 125's... that REALLY just aren't all that fast. That sort of speed is about as quick as a thirty odd year old Honda CB250 four-stroke single, 'commuter' bike! And you dont have to hunt very far in the buyers guides to find that almost anything over 250, even the most humble of offerings is as or an awful lot faster than even those quick-tiddlers....

YZF-R125, four-stroke? Yeah. It claims the full quota of Learner-Legal A1 complient 15bhp as other 'premium' 125's. Unlike the old two-strokes, that is also ALL it was ever designed to make, and even the best tuners, chucking loads of time, money and experience at the job, and even breaching 125 licence regs boring the buggers out close to 200cc, can't get more than 20bhp from them, if that! AND they dont have the reputation for reliability they should for the show-room price, even when standard!

Any-which way round you try and cut it, 125's are NOT quick, and never will be. Even the fastest of the fast, non leaner legal two-strokes.. when they don't need yet another top end rebuild!

You get far more oomph for your dosh, and far fewer hasles with a bigger bike, and all you need for that is a licence to ride it.... if you are old enough.

If not? Well, being young sucks. But enjoy it whilst you can! Being old dont have much to commend it either! And 'cheap' biking is but small compensation for aching joints and the onset of alseimers... which MAY in many ways be a bit of a blessing! But still.

So, if you are stuck by age, to 125's... real in the ambition and aspiration and expectations a LOT.

Think long and hard about what you want a bike for, and whether its as toy or transport. If toy? Well toys cost. If you can afford it, what the heck... folk spend gawd knows how much each year to chase a plastic ball about a field, or dangle a bit of string in a puddle trying to outwit a fish and call it 'sport'....

Riding a motorbike, on the publis road, is NOT really a 'sport'! Dodging SMISY's and weeja indicating busses may be a challenge, but its one in which points mean penalties not prizes! You want 'sport' take it to the track! You'll get more fun and more sadle hours of unadulterated fun for your money than you will likely find, 'playing at it' on the public road... where all you are likely to get for it is gravel rash and a big bill!

Of your liesure time and disposeable income, IS a motorbike REALLY the moist 'fun' yuou could have for your money, compared to say going to alton Towers, or to a night-club?

To get to and from? ANY motorvehicle has a hard time to justify its price against bus fares. Little bikes, might just about beat them... but only if you are careful. One off and a ripped water-proof can completely chuck the careful accounting to the wind... and you will NOT get 'free' fun on the back of it, expecting a bike to be both toy AND transport... in the compromise you will only get more expensive transport, and maybe, if you are lucky, a 'little' fun on the side, that STILL wont be 'free', will still be adding costs, that wont provide as much fun as you might get for that money elsewhere.... like down pub!

BUT, advice is the generic, best bang for your buck learner bike, is a Yamaha YBR125, bought second hand, for around £1500 or so, at about 3-4 years old with a fresh MOT on it. Its not a lot of bang for your buck, and it still seems a lot of buck for very little bang, but it IS about the optimum, against which all else should be measured.

YZF's and CBR's etc, may all offer more 'looks' for your money, but will beg a lot more money for them, and wont deliver much if any more go for it. Cheaper generic Chinky bikes, in the show-room, may be as cheap, and a warranty may make them appealing, but they will tend to cost you as much for less oomph and more hassles, along the way, when the resale price and more maintenance is factored into the all-in equation. Start looking at stuff in the sub £1000 used-bike price range, and you are into barrel scraping territory, and you are going to be buying previous owners problems; you MAY get lucky but more likely you wont, and at that price, on a bike likely over 3 years even for a chink, or a better lasting Jap-brand bike, that at that price is likely tending towards the tag end of anticipated 7 year 30K mile service life, if not already beyond it, what you don't pay upfront in purchase price you almost certainly will end up paying on repairs.

All depressing stuff, I am afraid... but welcome to the real world ofv biking! Make what you will of it. There's no such thing as a free-lunch, as they say. Makes your choices, pays your money, ans takes your chances...And the best of luck with it!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Mephysto]

Yea thx guys,il ponder it over the weekend, and thx Teflon for the novel, very informative and useful, my cbt bike was a ybr, it was a decent bike tbh, but struggled to get over 50, this may because the school restricted it?, I’m not after a super fast bike or a bike to look cool I just want something to ride which will sit at 60 easy without screaming for a doctor, and with some decent tyres on, I live close to the lakes so want something to go riding on in summer and work and back,and practise for the a1-2, therorys booked and just want to practise the a1 stuff as I’m not accustomed to the controls yet,I’d be happy sitting in a car park for couple hours few times a week practising, and then going into the lakes for a bit of a nice cruise admiring the scenery, impressing anyone is of no relevance to me,just enjoying the ride and views,

[Dave70]

You should be able to get to 60 MPH on a YBR, maybe not up hills though. If you only intend to keep a 125 for a short time, I'd certainly recommend considering one or the Honda CBR. The YZF R125 is not great to practice your U turns on due to its turning circle

Also, a decent YBR will hold its value better and with any luck you stand a good chance of getting back what you paid for it when you come to sell it on.

Bottom line is, if you want a 125 mainly to practice for your test on, get a YBR.

If you want to keep hold of it for a while and have a little more fun the YZF will be more suitable but, likely more costly. More so if you drop it and there's a good chance that you will. In fact, I'd almost guarantee it, 99.9% of us do when learning.

There's a good reason most riding schools use YBRs or CBRs and I doubt you'll find any school that uses YZFs to teach their students on.
____________________
There ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk.

2012: R125 killed by white van. 2016 R125 killed by 30,000 miles of redline. Current: 2016 Kawasaki ER6f.

[Pjay]

[kgm]

Most 125s will do what you've stated. My CG does no problem. Around town and on twsty country roads I'm usually travelling a bit faster than most of the cars. Getting overtakes in is the difficulty. Maintaining 60 isn't hardhard I rarely get overtaken on such roads. Struggles a bit to get to 70 though without a slight downhill.

It only becomes more difficult when a steep hill or particularly strong headwind is encountered. Dual carriageways can be trickier but again I often find that even on a hill there is usually a car or two going slower than I am. Problem with that is not having the power to overtake if you lose momentum having to slow down behind them! It's all about energy conservation on a tiddler. Experience helps there and is probably why I don't have too many issues with the lack of power as I'm able mm to work the bike.

[Bubbs]

BCF should all put money in for a 125 bike and rent it out to newbies to get through their test, £30 per month or something.
____________________
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

[M.C]

[Dave70]

[ThatDippyTwat]

A YBR in decent nick will do 60-70 on the flat. It won't like sustaining that though.
____________________
'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[Teflon-Mike]

Schools don't routinely 'restrict' little 125's that are already only able to make approx 2/3 of the power permitted by Learner-Regs.... STUDENTS on the other hand....... as hintimated, 125's live hard lives in the hands of know-nufrfink Learners, and school-bikes see a succession of them, all knowing the least!

To be fair, a 2nd hand school bike, probably isn't the worst bet in the world if you come across one; They do tend to get bashed and crashed a fair bit and get to look rather more 'worn' than average, rather more quickly, putting buyers off; but schools depend on the things to earn thier crust, and they tend NOT to be know-nuffing learners, and are a bit more contientiouse about maintenance on the things. They might have rather a lot of dents and scraped chrome... but under that, all the bits that need oiling or adjusting, tend to have been. They 'may' in a world where bargains are few or far between, be as close as you might get to one, if you dont too much care about the scrapes and dents.

Meanwhile, back on topic... DO NOT take your CBT experience as particularly indicative of life on your own, on your own bike.. it is to a large degree a bit of a baptism by fire.

First off, the course should have been at least 7-8 hours long, and you AUGHT to have spent at least half of that hands-on arse in saddle. Regs demand at least two-hours 'road-time' for starters, after all the play-ground antics and listening to the safety schpiel.... It is, for many a very long, tiring and stressful day... when they are anxious, nervous, and unfamiliar with what they are doing,m using muscles not before used or used in ways never before used, ALL whilst trying to remember what the bloke said, and tense and nervouse trying to do it... IT IS tiring... and does NOT in any way flatter the potential 'comfort' of a little bike, and you will likely think, "If THIS is what I have to suffer, ever day, twice a day... SOD THAT!" But, like I say, its not indicative, because you aren't familiar and so much is asked and expected of you.

When I was 19, I thought little of jumping on the 125 and heading off 250 miles in one jaunt on the thing.... mostly because I had no other choice! Well, I did... I could have stayed home! A dozen years on, the rose tint-eye-sight of 'age' did make me think twice, and a ruddy great behemoth made everything seem sooo much easier.

Its only actually relatively recently, running a 125 and a big bike, I have actually stopped to make a fairer comparison, and you know what? ACTUALLY makes not THAT much odds. I assumed that the tiddler was a pain in the bum on a longer run, because on the of longer run, that's what I got. I assumed it was that much better round town, because it was smaller, lighter and more nimble, and popping the shops, a lot less of a chore.. until I had to 'pop the shops' on the big bike and the daughter had me trundling round obscure bits of brum looking for frock-shops! The pain in the arse, wasn't so much from how big the bike is, or even how far you go on it, it IS down to how much work you have to do... and round town, there's a lot more work to be done! Hence its less comfy in the longer run. On the long haul, little 125, even for me, 6'2" and relatively scrunched up on any smaller framed bike, actually NOT so uncomfy, as long as you aren't having to work so hard, so little between them.... but yeah... if I am popping the shops... I'll take the tidler, if I am heading a hundred miles or more into the wilds, I'll take the 750!

But, end of the day, its swings and round-abouts, b-u-t.. how comfy or tiring it is, DOES depend more on the route and the rider, than the bike. And if a 125 is all you got or all you're allowed, its lump it or stay home. You will not get a huge amount more comfort from any 125 over another.

FIFTY MILES AN HOUR! Rings an alarm bell. YEAH! A lot of folk find that. As said, unlikely the school 'restrict' a bike already 30% down on permitted power. Previouse students 'may' have blunted that a bit, raving the nuts off it and slipping the clutch trying to find the bite-point and pat-thier-head-and-rub-thier-tummy 'Slip & Drag' polava on slow speed maneuvers, that is pretty unnecessary... BUT... much more likely, YOU 'learner' will have been playing cogs, 'cos thats what you went there to learn! Got gears, must use them! It seems a sensible idea! A-N-D consequently have been over-shifting, making more work for yourself going up more gears than you need, and having to do more work still going back down them, all of which hampers being 'smooth' especially slowing for junctions...

You also will likely have had the 'notion' to change up, at lower revs, because the engine seems to be pulling quite strongly low down, and sounds like its going to do an impresion of a mills grenade when revved out..... you might also have some misguided notions that keeping the revs down, is good for either engine longevity/reliability and or ecconomy..... which, are pretty erroneous. BUT upshot is that in all liklihood you will have cogged up, all the way from first to fifth before you are doing 45mph.. and have been happy in top becouse the lever wont move any more, so you know what gear you're in! THEN you have tried to do all your acceleration from there in top... and at 50mph it will have 'just' run out of puff, and wont go no faster....

Actually, it probably WILL, you just needed to change 'down' or to have NOT changed up in the first place! Seems counter infatuation, want go faster, need higher gear, not a lower one, BUT.... Little air-cooled 125 four-stroke single, likely makes about 10bhp at about 10,ooo rpm. That IS enough to achieve 60-65mph reasonably often... BUT you need to rev the nuts off the thing in the lower gears to get AT that power and get the thing shifting. The power is roughly proportional to engine revs, so at tickover you have about 1bhp, at 2000, 2bhp, at 3,000 3bhp etc. Only takes 3bhp to go 30mph, so you can probably get the thing into top gear by then, and have enough power for it to hold road speed... it just doesn't have enough power for any acceleration.... so around 50mph in top, IF you are trying to labour up from 30 or 40 in that cog, it 'tops out'.. it doesn't make enough power... at those revs... to go faster... and let the engine rev higher, where it probably DOES have the power to pull a higher road speed.

So, you use the revs, not the gears. Ride for response. DON'T short shift, let the little feckker SCREAM! Wont kill it!" Its designed to do that, and it doesn't make enough power to do itself much harm, anyway!

Rule of thumb;
1st only from a stand still, you will run out of revs by the time you are traveling at a brisk trot... so get it up to 2nd pretty briskly, and give yourself a chance to make a less huried and smoother shift.
2nd... should take you to about 25-30mph. Slow-speed maneuvers, junctions, roundabouts, round the houses, dodging kids playing Kirby or school-run mums backing Nissan kiddie carriers off thier drives full tilt. THIS is the perfect gear to give you MOST response, either slowing or accelerating to suit such road conditions, in built up and suburban areas, mostly now displaying a 20mph speed limit.
THIRD.. is the mother of all work... should take you to around 50mph, if you thrash it a bit, but still have the stomp to pull as low as perhaps 10 or 15mph. Round town, you probably do not need another gear.. you can slap in in third and treat it like a twist-and-go, and have MOST speeding up or slowing down available to you on the throttle, and NOT have to frantically stir gear levers, jiggle clutch levers AND mess with brakes... you can do it ALL on the throttle and the throttle alone... most the time! No go uppy gears, no meed comey downey gears.. you will be a lot smoother, you will be in better control, you will get less tired having to work and jiggle and balance SO many different controls you really shouldn't have top. Around town, in 30-40 limit roads, it REALLY is the only gear you need use.
4th... to all extents and purposes this is your highway 'top' gear. It will take you from about 30/40mph to pretty much as fast as the bike is likely to go, or a couple of MPH beneath, so about 60mph. Really a little 125 isn't likely to ever go much faster under its own steam, and this gear will, let you get there, and not 'top-out' early. You will sacrifice throttle response for the extra speed, so you probably only want/need 4th on faster more open roads, where you KNOW that for a good few miles you don't have junctions or roundabouts or SMIDSY soccer mum to deal with, maybe just the odd bend, you can see, hopefully, well in advance,m and you can, for the most part STILL do all your speed changing on the throttle, not the gears... if you use the revs.
5th, is an 'over-drive'. If you have used 3rd and forth to get up to a higher 55-60mph road speed, 5th, will basically 'just' let you sacrifice all ytour throttle response, for the benefit of knocking the revs back, so it doesn't sound so strained, and some dubious presumption you are saving fuel.... and MAYBE if the road is long enough or sloped downwards enough... you might eek an extra couple of mph out of the thing, occasionally.. if its worth the while even trying. You can, almost forget you have the gear a lot of the time, it really isn't all that useful, and short0shifting ALL the way to it, as soon as you are shifting, and doing so as a matter of routiune, REALLY isn't all that helpful
to anything.

Cog down, use the revs not the gears, ride for response! If you believe that you are 'wasting' fuel letting the thing rev.. FFS how much ecconomy do you want, its a 125 f'f'sake! It ent never going to use that much fuel, and If you need save the stuff, you probably cant afford a bike at all, think twice and take the bus! You got dem revs to use, USE them!

Oh-Kay... where does that lot get us?

CBT.... you WILL have learned a heck of a lot. But, its your first lesson, only, its NOT the be-all-and-end-all, and a DL196 cert to say you have had the first lesson is NOT a licence!

Mean-while, that 1st lesson will have given you a lot to chew on, and not all of it necessarily all that helpful, and certainly not enough to easily sort wheat from chaff.

As said, your experience of a YBR on CBT is probably not particularly indicative of how you would find the same bike, on your own, on real roads, in real world situations.. A-N-D remember, it was your first leson, you still have a lot to learn, and that bike could probably have gone a lot faster had you known how to thrash it for all it can give. Not the bike, it be you.... and looking for another bike to solve the problem, probably wont, 'cos you;ll still be the one riding it!

So, back to the beginning really... YBR still represents the overall best value bench-mark learner-commuter 125 on the market. ALL 125's are slow bikes, even the fastest of the fast non learner-legal ones are, in the greater scheme of things NOT very fast bikes... and if you live in the lakes? Well, you have a lot of hills to deal with... and even more Sunday drivers peering at little smart-phone screens wondering why they don't have a signal to see google-maps, rather than an OS map they cant read or fold! And suicidal sheep... and bobble hatters, and layby hogging ice-cream vans... its a slightly different scene to riding accros brum... but same charecters, offering the same hazards, just in a different set of cloths!

And STILL you have the small matter that there's only a relatively small number of bikes possibly for sale, and up near t'wall, most of them will be hundreds of miles south of you, and you STILL have Hobsons choice over any of them.....

Likelihood you will find an 'ideal' or even 'better' 125 among st them is slim to nill, they are little bikes folk put big expectations on, they are rarely able to fulfil... BUT for what they may do, almost ANY of them can do it, and you dont need to be all that savvy to find, if not a great-deal on one, at least a better deal... you JUST need to open your horizons a bit, and be prepared to pound shoe-leather, and go find, not have it handed to you on a plate, AND with just the right amount of salt on it... you WILL have to make some compromises some-where along the line and take a little less than ideal... especially in the Learner-Legal world where as said, its a sellers market with 50-times the number of folk shopping for them than there are bikes for them to buy.

And in a world of 'slow' bikes... a couple of mph more slow REALLY is neither here nor there... as said, YOU are the biggest variable in the equation right now, not the bike, ANY bike. So, count £20 notes out, grab a news-ppaper, and go pound shoe leather to see WHATY them £20 notes MIGHT be swapped for, with an engine, and a couple of wheels.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Mephysto]

Yea thx to you all for contributing your knowledge and experience, and Teflon for your input, I’d agree about the gears, it’s a real surprise to me this thread got so much attention and I’ve enjoyed reading all your posts and information so thank you for that,il keep a look out for a ybr, I think ,if I buy one il put a windscreen in to help a bit with wind factor,no sports can though, there’s one local on fb for 800 haven’t got the reg yet to hpi it but il look at it, really wish they hade wider tyres though might be me playing games with myself but I’d feel happier knowing there’s more rubber where the power is, but I’m sure people have ridden for a hundred years on such things and worse,anyhow again a big thank you guys for your input. Take care and best wishes,

[M.C]

[Teflon-Mike]

As narrow as you can get away with, as wide as you have to... skinny tyres ACTUALLY work better on a bike.... they tilt....

If you have 30psi in a tyre that has 150lb of bike above it, then the tyre will squash until thers 5sq in of rubber in contact with the tarmac... fit wider tyres, all that will happen in that the tyre will be less squashed by the weight to get the same contact area.

Meanwhile the force that can be transmitted in pure friction is the clamping force, times the co-efficient of friction.... or how sticky the rubber....

Ie be MORe worried about how 'crap' standard YBR tyres or 'cheap' replecements may be, NOT how hick the things may be....

Narrow section tyres ACTUALLY mean that for the same level of grip, you get less change in geometry as you lean a bike, as well as less drag when trying to steer, or even in a straight line; so actually help the bike handle more netrally more lightly and generrally 'better' than fat rubber that does bog all except look good, unless the bike is heavy enough and or powerful enough to load it enough to justify that much extra rubber..... and a 10bhp 125 trust me just isn't!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Rogerborg]

[M.C]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Kentol750]

Fitting anything to your bike other than manufacturers recommended sizes could be an issue with your insurance.
____________________
Some bikes.

[Mephysto]

Ok il keep some rich teas on my wheels then, .thx

[Mephysto]

[quote="Kentol750"]Fitting anything to your bike other than manufacturers recommended sizes could be an issue with your insurance.[/quote]


Yea I wasn’t actually going to change the rim width on the bike myself, as I’m sure doing so might cause other issues concerning alignment and possible other things, I would just buy a bike with wide tyres on already, Hyosung gtr or similar, but in reality it’s just the same as the Yzf, most used with be bought by learners they have probably damaged it in some way or another, and screamed the engine so there might be blowback from the piston rings,or they haven’t seated properly, or the don’t warm the bike up before riding or clutchless gear changes,many things to consider,and avoid buying,and I’m not in to paying that much for a new bike so there definitely out, back to ybr or cbr or maybe one of these if I can find one at decent price.https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/products/motorcycles/urban-mobility/ys125.aspx?view=featurestechspecs&mode=colors#gallery=color|image=https://cdn.yamaha-motor.eu/product_assets/2017/YS125/950-75/2017-Yamaha-YS125-EU-Power-Red-Studio-002.jpg

[Teflon-Mike]

https://cdn.yamaha-motor.eu/product_assets/2017/YS125/950-75/2017-Yamaha-YS125-EU-Power-Red-Studio-002.jpg[/quote]
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[M.C]