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| chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 17:29 - 07 Mar 2018  Post subject: Re: Just blame Russia... |
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| mpd72 wrote: |
Even the foreign secretary is jumping to conclusions...these politicians might be better off keeping their gobs shut. |
Even? This is Boris Johnson we're talking about here, you'd have to physically gag him.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 21:04 - 07 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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| Pjay wrote: |
I had a chat with a Russian politician a few years back and this subject came up.
He laughed it off and told me that Polonium 210 is so prohibitively expensive that he would never have been killed with it. By it yes, not with it. He said that the Kremlin could have people killed for wages, anywhere in the world and there was not the slightest chance they would spend millions killing Litvinenko. He said that he probably poisoned himself trying to sell it. |
Whilst I would not immediately jump to the conclusion that Putin was responsible for either death, I wouldn't be inclined to believe a Russian politician either. Did he come up with a plausible reason why Litvinenko might be trying to sell Polonium?
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M.C
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 22:39 - 07 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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| stinkwheel wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
Don't know if the latest 'victim' has been active in any way since coming here? |
Yes. He was lecturing British military personel on how the soviet secret service operates. |
Thing is, briefing a potential enemy on such matters is not the same as persistent attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the actions of a head of state, carried out in as public a way as possible, such as publishing books on the subject, as with Litvinenko; and especially one who runs an autocracy such as Putin does, and wishes to keep hold of the reins of power. It is pretty much accepted that espionage and counter-espionage will be carried out by all nations, and defection is not a new thing. If you want to prevent a defector from giving away state secrets, you kill him before he has a chance to do so, if you can. I wouldn't have thought it would take the Russians 8 years to find an opportunity to do it.
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| Pjay |
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Pjay
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| Posted: 23:09 - 07 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote: | $69 is expensive? |
"Because polonium's radioactivity is so high," says Prof. Zimmerman, "one millicurie of polonium would weigh only 0.2 millionths of a gram."
United Nuclear Scientific Supplies distributes radio-isotopes over the Internet, including polonium-210. But in a recent statement posted on its website, United Nuclear said the only isotopes it sells are an "exempt quantity" amount, meaning the quantities are so small (and they are electroplated on the inside eye of a needle) that they are not considered hazardous by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
United Nuclear does not carry any stock, and any orders it receives are sent to the NRC-licensed reactor in Oak Ridge, Tenn.
It says that one would need about 15,000 of its polonium-210 needles, at a cost of about $1-million U.S., to have a toxic amount.
The high radioactivity shown in the Litvinenko Polonium case would have cost tens of millions.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 00:29 - 08 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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| Pjay wrote: | | Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote: | $69 is expensive? |
"Because polonium's radioactivity is so high," says Prof. Zimmerman, "one millicurie of polonium would weigh only 0.2 millionths of a gram."
United Nuclear Scientific Supplies distributes radio-isotopes over the Internet, including polonium-210. But in a recent statement posted on its website, United Nuclear said the only isotopes it sells are an "exempt quantity" amount, meaning the quantities are so small (and they are electroplated on the inside eye of a needle) that they are not considered hazardous by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
United Nuclear does not carry any stock, and any orders it receives are sent to the NRC-licensed reactor in Oak Ridge, Tenn.
It says that one would need about 15,000 of its polonium-210 needles, at a cost of about $1-million U.S., to have a toxic amount.
The high radioactivity shown in the Litvinenko Polonium case would have cost tens of millions. |
All of which makes it next to ridiculous to suggest Litvinenko poisoned himself trying to sell the stuff. Not even a serious attempt at deflecting the blame.
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M.C
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| Posted: 01:59 - 08 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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Fizzoid
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| Posted: 09:49 - 08 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: |
| Fizzoid wrote: | Former, as in no longer kept in the loop as to what may, or may not be happening then... |
Or maybe "former" because no current MI5 or MI6 officer would be talking to the press unless they fancied early retirement? Think about it for a minute eh.... |
I know you like dishing out advice, but you should really take some of your own advice, before making statements like this, that contradict what you're saying!
To try and explain it, because again, simple facts have gone over your head...
You are absolutely right, no current MI5 or MI6 officer would be talking to the press right now about this...
So what you're saying, which is the point I'm making, is that anyone that might actually know what's been going on with this guy, won't be saying anything!
You do realise you're actually arguing with yourself?
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| Posted: 09:57 - 08 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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| Fizzoid wrote: |
I know you like dishing out advice, but you should really take some of your own advice, before making statements like this, that contradict what you're saying!
To try and explain it, because again, simple facts have gone over your head...
You are absolutely right, no current MI5 or MI6 officer would be talking to the press right now about this...
So what you're saying, which is the point I'm making, is that anyone that might actually know what's been going on with this guy, won't be saying anything!
You do realise you're actually arguing with yourself? |
No, the point I was making has passed you by. The media agenda on this whole story is to blame Russia from the start, long before anyone knew anything factual about how they were killed, or who did it.
This has included "expert" after "expert" who were speculating time and time again about how he was killed, long before anyone knew anything about what happened. The padding out in news bulletins and interviews was so obvious, it was embarrassing.
It's basically trial by media, hence the "just blame Russia" topic title.
In typical media style, this story will be pinned on the Russians, then go quiet. Eventually an investigation will be inconclusive, but will come to the conclusion that it was "probably" done by "The Russians". By which time, the story will have gone cold and the proles will already be programmed that nasty Russia, the enemy of Europe, were responsible. Much like Litvenenko.
The results of most of these things lately are decided by the media long before any actual investigation is complete, then often the results never even make the media. The result is that people believe what the media agenda throws at them, often never actually hearing the result.
Anyone hear the results of the investigations into the Muslim mini cab driver, who managed to drive through barriers, over a traffic island and through parked cars before ploughing into pedestrians outside he London Museum? Remember the photographs of the public pinning him to the ground as he tried to do a runner? This was all over the press, called an accident, then went quiet. There are tons of stories like this, which the media make an early decision on, the proles accept, then the truth never gets a mention once known later on after the trial or investigation.
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Last edited by - on 10:06 - 08 Mar 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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Polarbear
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Pjay
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| Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche...
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| Posted: 12:01 - 08 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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| Pjay wrote: | | Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote: | $69 is expensive? |
"Because polonium's radioactivity is so high," says Prof. Zimmerman, "one millicurie of polonium would weigh only 0.2 millionths of a gram."
United Nuclear Scientific Supplies distributes radio-isotopes over the Internet, including polonium-210. But in a recent statement posted on its website, United Nuclear said the only isotopes it sells are an "exempt quantity" amount, meaning the quantities are so small (and they are electroplated on the inside eye of a needle) that they are not considered hazardous by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
United Nuclear does not carry any stock, and any orders it receives are sent to the NRC-licensed reactor in Oak Ridge, Tenn.
It says that one would need about 15,000 of its polonium-210 needles, at a cost of about $1-million U.S., to have a toxic amount.
The high radioactivity shown in the Litvinenko Polonium case would have cost tens of millions. |
Russia produces 8 grammes of Polonium 210 per month and the lethal dose is 0.6 Millionths of a gramme, doesn't sound like a big problem.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/polonium-is-costly-undetectable-trillion-times-more-toxic-than-cyanide/article18179025/
To my mind the cost and difficulty to obtain limits it's use to state sponsored attacks.
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stinkwheel
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| Posted: 12:01 - 08 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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Polomium is used in the trigger of some types of nuclear bomb.
When I heard it had been smuggled into the country and used in a political assasination, I was in no doubt what sort of message it was sending.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 12:56 - 08 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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| Pjay wrote: |
There was obviously a leak of radiation as traces were found even on a plane that was used to transport it. |
Yes, I have read accounts of the case.
| Pjay wrote: | Radiation poisoning can be fatal, as it was in this case. |
I don't want to sound like I'm having a go, but can't think of a better way to put it: Well, doh! 
| Pjay wrote: | There are plenty of cheap and highly toxic poisons freely available to the Russian government. |
But:
| stinkwheel wrote: | When I heard it had been smuggled into the country and used in a political assasination, I was in no doubt what sort of message it was sending. |
At the time of Litvinenko's anti-Putin activities, Putin was still in the process of establishing his power base. He probably still felt vulnerable to attacks on his character and methods, so Litvinenko was perceived as a threat. Perhaps he did feel he needed to send a clear message: I'm here to stay, and I can reach you anywhere.
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Pjay
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chickenstrip
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Posted: 13:08 - 08 Mar 2018  Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | Does anyone have a little bit of sneaking admiration for Putin? I do. In fact I have a lot of respect for him. |
Same here.
Edit: The karma isn't for the bit about the World Cup though; I hate football 
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Pjay
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| Posted: 13:09 - 08 Mar 2018 Post subject: |
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The production of Polonium is what makes it expensive.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 41 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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