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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:

You're not stupid enough to use Novichok, yet you are allowing the possibility that the Russians are?

Cool.


What about the possibility that russia just don't give a shit.

Sure they may deny it, but either way its unlikely there will be any significant consequences. I'm sure neither side has the appetite for a full blown war.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
Pjay wrote:

You're not stupid enough to use Novichok, yet you are allowing the possibility that the Russians are?

Cool.


What about the possibility that russia just don't give a shit.

Sure they may deny it, but either way its unlikely there will be any significant consequences. I'm sure neither side has the appetite for a full blown war.


If they didn't give a shit, they wouldn't be asking for samples and denying involvement.
They would be getting on not giving a shit. It's not like they don't have form in not giving a shit.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:

If they didn't give a shit, they wouldn't be asking for samples and denying involvement.


Have they denied involvement? Or have they blustered and obfuscated when asked?

Did their ambassador to the UK attend a meeting with the foreign office and say something like: "Russia categorically denies having anything to do with this attack. If one of our nerve agents has got into posession of a third party, this is something we find deeply worrying. It is in both our interests to get to the bottom of this, how can we assist tracking the perpotrators down?"

Something like that?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
I'd have used tetrodotoxin.


You're not stupid enough to use Novichok, yet you are allowing the possibility that the Russians are?

Cool.


Why would it be stupid of them? Not like they'll have to face any major consequences. And Putin wouldn't care if they did. It won't harm him personally. He has a strong enough grip on the country that no one can oust him. Election laws are rigged to keep him in power, and he has all the necessary structures in place to deal with those who try.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Walmart sell tanks, Kalashnikov, missiles and fighter jets too do they? Wow.


Wait, ISIS now have fighter jets, missiles and tanks?


mpd72 wrote:


Do you really think these nerve agents, who's chemical composition is widely available,


It is? If so, why haven't someone like ISIS used it already? Why build a poor ass bucket bomb, when you can just get all the ingredients for NX gas from Boots?
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the anti-Russian propaganda is working on the general populace.

I know some Russians personally and they are of the opinion that the English are great people and they see us as Allies. This is a common theme in Russia, they just don't see us as we see them.

The most conversations I have had with Russians are of how great we all were in winning WW2. I also had the fortune of meeting a Current Russian Army General and he invited me to his home for dinner with his wife and family and was genuinely excited to meet an Englishman. He went mad with the selfies and couldn't have smiled more the whole time.

So please, excuse me if I dont buy into the dislike for the Russians.
They have without exception been incredibly kind and inviting to me.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
It seems the anti-Russian propaganda is working on the general populace.

I know some Russians personally and they are of the opinion that the English are great people and they see us as Allies. This is a common theme in Russia, they just don't see us as we see them.

The most conversations I have had with Russians are of how great we all were in winning WW2. I also had the fortune of meeting a Current Russian Army General and he invited me to his home for dinner with his wife and family and was genuinely excited to meet an Englishman. He went mad with the selfies and couldn't have smiled more the whole time.

So please, excuse me if I dont buy into the dislike for the Russians.
They have without exception been incredibly kind and inviting to me.


You yourself are proving that people and state aren't necessarily the same thing. And this is the tragedy of it.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
You yourself are proving that people and state aren't necessarily the same thing. And this is the tragedy of it.


I am pointing out that we are being brainwashed into hating the Russians and they are not brainwashing their citizens.

We have had years of watching American Movies with their Commie hate Campaign, that it's almost a gimmie that we will believe anything anti Russian.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
You yourself are proving that people and state aren't necessarily the same thing. And this is the tragedy of it.


I am pointing out that we are being brainwashed into hating the Russians and they are not brainwashing their citizens.

We have had years of watching American Movies with their Commie hate Campaign, that it's almost a gimmie that we will believe anything anti Russian.


Nobody is saying they hate the Russians. It is Putin and his state machinery that people take issue with.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


Ah, wikipedia, must be true then Rolling Eyes
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
duhawkz wrote:


What about the possibility that russia just don't give a shit.

Sure they may deny it, but either way its unlikely there will be any significant consequences. I'm sure neither side has the appetite for a full blown war.


Get out of town. It's propaganda at it's finest, designed to demonise Russia and strengthen the need for the EU and it's desire to build an army.

All over the attempted murder of one Russian ex spy and his daughter, which appears to have been done in a way that only the Ruskies and nobody else will get the blame.


So some unknown actor, possibly state sponsored running round deploying chemical weapons. Is nothing, just propaganda.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
You're welcome. I can't believe you'd never realised this.
Do you read the Guardian for your news then? Wink

Here's some others, if Wiki isn't conclusive enough for you to stop burying your head in the sand...

https://uk.businessinsider.com/isis-military-equipment-arsenal-2016

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/weapons-of-isis.asp

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5228199/Analysis-shows-origins-ISIS-weapons-came-from.html

Sorry, no Guardian coverage...


Still not seeing any fighter jets...

And no, I don't class some museum pieces from the late 50's than aren't even air worthy, as fighter jets...

And I'd rather bury my head in the sand than listen to your drivel

Seriously, JK Rowling writes more realistic stories than you do!
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

It's perfectly plausible that ISIS got hold of some of this nerve agent and knew most of our politicians would be as gullible as, you know...those who have joined May's hate campaign against Russia.


Really Shocked, they don't seem to me to be the sort to play politics. IF they got hold of a chemical weapon, they strike me as the sort that would deploy it in the middle of packed city centre or a football match for maximum effect, while proclaiming snackbar.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know if it's real, propaganda or whatever but one thing I will agree with mpd72 about. Putin is a damn sight better leader of his country than May, or any of the aspiring other idiots we have in charge of us.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 14 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Fizzoid wrote:

Still pretending not seeing any fighter jets...


Fizzoid wrote:
And no, I don't class some museum pieces from the late 50's than aren't even air worthy, as fighter jets...


Even though many of these supersonic Migs are still in active service? wow.


Fizzoid wrote:
And I'd rather bury my head in the sand than admit I was wrong


Clearly.

Fizzoid wrote:
Seriously, JK Rowling writes more realistic stories than you do!


I bet she doesn't provide several factual inks backing up Harry Potter for you to ignore though, because they don't fit your agenda.

It's perfectly plausible that ISIS got hold of some of this nerve agent and knew most of our politicians would be as gullible as, you know...those who have joined May's hate campaign against Russia.


I suggest you read YOUR 'facts' again

All you've provided is some speculation that ISIS have captured some 60 year old jets that aren't airworthy

Have you got any evidence of any flying, recently?
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