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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 22:35 - 19 Apr 2018  Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | I see the Salisbury event has now disappeared off the face of the earth, buried under a historic dead donkey, aka the historic windrush government scandal. Oh look Syria seems to have fixed itself too. Not a sniff of either story in the news anymore, well at least not on Al Beeb or any of the radio broadcasts I've heard. |
You could always watch RT news. Should be right up your street.
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| duhawkz |
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duhawkz
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| Posted: 08:43 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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Oh look, top story on the latest new page on the bbc
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43833582
Must be a cover up
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| Posted: 09:32 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The attempted murder of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia on UK soil has led many to point the finger at Moscow. |
"Point the finger"? I thought it was certainly the Ruskies?
Are we not sure anymore? Have the independent test results not been the result Boris, May, Trump and the EU wanted?
As for your story, it's nonsense propaganda.
| Quote: | Decontamination work, expected to take months, has begun at nine locations. |
So let me get this straight...According to a "government agent", the suspected, probably, allegedly nerve agent which didn't even work on it's intended target, degrades when in the open air, yet weeks later, it's still present and areas of the town are going to be out of bounds for decontamination for months?
I get the feeling we're being fed a lie here.
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| Posted: 09:41 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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So, why wont the OPCW actually name the substance, instead of just saying that their results match the UK investigation?
Name it as Novichok then.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/04/1007642
| Quote: | A technical team sent by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) to the site of an alleged chemical weapons attack in the United Kingdom has identified toxic agents consistent with the UK’s initial investigation, the top United Nations disarmament official told the Security Council on Wednesday.
“[The OPCW] Technical Assistance Visit team has noted that the toxic chemical in question was of high purity,” said Izumi Nakamitsu, the UN High Representative for Disarmament Affairs.
The statement from the OPCW does not specifically name the substance, but it says technical experts confirmed the findings of the UK “relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people.” |
Why not? Isn't that the whole point of the investigation?
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| duhawkz |
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duhawkz
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duhawkz
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| Posted: 12:04 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| duhawkz wrote: |
Can you even read? |
I can read alternative propaganda to the BBC, can you?
| the bbc article wrote: | The nerve agent does not evaporate or disappear over time, experts have said, and intense cleaning with caustic chemicals is required to get rid of it. |
Depends who's bullshit you believe eh? You fall hook, line and sinker for Al Beeb propaganda. Other say the opposite.
| Quote: | When Novichok agents get into the environment, they pose a danger only for a limited time period. "When the nerve agents interact with the moisture in the atmosphere, they actually degrade." Also, one can wash the compounds off with water. |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/03/13/novichok-what-russia-dangerous-poison-used-ex-spy-sergei-skripal-case/421378002/
Somebody's telling fibs and I know where my money is on.
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| Posted: 12:15 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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An "electronic message" eh.... such as?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/942903/Sergei-Skripal-russian-spy-poisoning-russian-message-intercepted?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dx%2FRussianSpy&utm_term=Dx%2FRussianSpy&utm_content=Dx%2FRussianSpy
| Quote: | Insiders said the two messages were intercepted by RAF analysts stationed at a listening post in southern Cyprus. |
Really? Russian KGB sent a radio signal message to Moscow about Skirpal's assasination did they?
Yeah, of course they did. I mean if it was me, I'd have sent the message as an encrypted email, not a fecking radio transmission.
As it came from...
| Quote: | On the day of the poisonings, March 4, one was sent from a location near Damascus in Syria to “an official” in Moscow including the phrase ‘the package has been delivered” and saying that two individuals had “made a successful egress”. |
Could it not be, you know, related to military action in Syria?
Come on, really? What bullshit will they come out with next?
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Ste
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 12:52 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: |
| Quote: | The statement from the OPCW does not specifically name the substance, but it says technical experts confirmed the findings of the UK “relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people.” |
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It's easy to play with words. The UK has specifically said Novichok.
Some of the side reports in people's links here confirm what I said earlier though, that the decision by so many countries to expel Russian 'diplomats' was based on far more than just the Skripal case. They felt the Salisbury incident didn't need to be proved - they were headed that way anyway. Why do you think that is?
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| Posted: 13:04 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: |
| Quote: | The statement from the OPCW does not specifically name the substance, but it says technical experts confirmed the findings of the UK “relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people.” |
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It's easy to play with words. The UK has specifically said Novichok.
Some of the side reports in people's links here confirm what I said earlier though, that the decision by so many countries to expel Russian 'diplomats' was based on far more than just the Skripal case. They felt the Salisbury incident didn't need to be proved - they were headed that way anyway. Why do you think that is? |
No, Boris and May have said Novichok. Why won't the OPCW not name it specifically?
That's cleverly worded, so they can't be held accountable if it's ever revealed it wasn't the "no chance of survival" nerve agent, they both survived.
Come on, think for a minute.
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| Posted: 13:17 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | “The OPCW is not the world police,” Jerry Smith explains. “All they can do is deal with what member states give them… The Russians never offered any details [of Novichoks] to the OPCW, as far as I’m aware. So, with that in mind, they can’t make any comment.”
There is no doubt that defining Novichoks is problematic. Indeed, scientists studying the specific molecules used in the Salisbury attack might potentially have disagreements about whether it can be classified as such. |
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/long-read-does-the-uks-case-against-russia-stack-up
| Quote: | Although Russia developed them originally, it’s likely that several countries have also made small samples of Novichok – or at least know how to.
But because they have avoided being specifically classified by the Chemical Weapons Convention, any countries that have produced them may be able to avoid declaring it.
“I can’t believe that Russia has the sole technology to manufacture Novichoks,” says Jerry Smith. “If you want to make sure you’re protected against an agent which has been spoken about – and, in fact, even their chemical structures are on the internet – one would imagine that’s probably a duty of care.” |
And to round it off...
| Quote: | Allegations over chemical and biological weapons have a troubling history. Both accuser and accused have misled in the past.
In the ‘80s, for instance, President Reagan’s administration repeatedly accused the Soviet Union of supplying Vietnam with a biological weapon called Yellow Rain. But the scientific analysis proved to be staggeringly wrong: the mysterious substance was, in fact, just bee excrement.
And, of course, the intelligence about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction in 2003 also turned out to be wrong. |
Until something solid can be presented, I'm not convinced Russia was behind this, I suspect it was more someone trying to make it look like it was Russian.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 13:27 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: |
Come on, think for a minute. |
Exactly this.
You can base the accusation on precedent as much as anything else. You can base it on all the other things Russia is accused of by many nations and individuals. They base their accusations on evidence gathered by their many intelligence services and investigations by police and other bodies. So the evidence of Russia being guilty in the Salisbury case just adds to all of this, proven outright or not. That's why people blame Russia.
In my mind, with Putin and certain other individuals at its head, Russia is effectively a KGB-run state, quite likely with many criminal connections. I would need much more than the proof one way or the other in the Salisbury case to think otherwise, including a sea-change in the rhetoric coming from the Kremlin.
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duhawkz
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 13:47 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: |
No, Boris and May have said Novichok. Why won't the OPCW not name it specifically? |
The research facility at Porton Down have said Novichok. The OPCW says it has confirmed the findings of the UK facility.
| Quote: | That's cleverly worded, so they can't be held accountable if it's ever revealed it wasn't the "no chance of survival" nerve agent, they both survived. |
You forget that there is the released version of the OPCW statement, and a classified version, which we haven't seen. I doubt that one contradicts the other on the salient point. You are quite right to point out that the OPCW have not blamed Russia. It isn't their job to decide who actually carried out the attack, merely to confirm the agent used, which they have done. But the OPCW have enough reason to be embarrassed on what they have said publicly, if found to be wrong about the agent used.
The survival of the Skripals (thus far; people have been poisoned by nerve agents, made partial recoveries, only to die of their effects in the longer term) has been explained elsewhere.
But even Russia doesn't deny that at least a proportion of the agent used is what it is being claimed to be. Well, sometimes they don't, sometimes they say something completely contradictory - classic KGB-style tactic.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 14:01 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: |
How about the OPCW actually naming the nerve agent and specifying the source as Russia, which we were told was easy to do as they all have a chemical signature?
In fact, how about any proof that Russia actually did commit this? |
You want the OPCW to say "Novichok"? But the Russians say they never gave such agents that name officially. That's just semantics though.
Also, addressing an earlier point:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/18/opcw-rejects-russian-claims-of-second-salisbury-nerve-agent
Which further points to the Russian disinformation campaign on the subject, their usual tactic. After all the years that first the Soviets, and now their direct successors have been using such, I can't believe anyone is still taken in by it.
Also worth pointing out this, in the statements given by OPCW officials:
| Quote: | In his presentation, the UK OPCW envoy pointed out that the OPCW noted that the chemical was of high purity, indicating that the chemical was not volatile and would degrade slowly. “All this is cause for grave concern as we now face a clear case of a new family of toxic chemicals intended to kill,” he said. |
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Lord Percy
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 18:49 - 20 Apr 2018 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | Iraq, therefore everything western governments say is necessarily lies |
Laziness, is what that is.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 1 day ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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