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BHP required for 'normal' riding

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F1.ash
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: BHP required for 'normal' riding Reply with quote

Okay, I have this notion which was spawned by a really good ride out I had the other weekend and it raised a question...'how much power do I really need?'

My current bike has 115bhp (GSX-S750) and it's your typical smooth Japanese IL4 - very capable, very efficient and almost without personality below a certain point. Even this is mid-range by today's standards. I feel that it comes alive at speeds that could potentially be problem.

While this was fresh in my mind I dropped into CMW Motorcycles while I was passing, they happen to be a Moto Guzzi dealer, and I had a good look at a V7 lll. It struck me as a bike with character, individuality and a lot less power, 52bhp to be precise. Riding a Thruxton regularly I recalled how that makes you feel - looks great, makes you feel great and gives loads of sensory feedback at any speed. Granted it has more power but it never compels you to rev it out in order to get a grin.

So, in real world terms the question is this - is 52bhp enough power to keep you entertained? I think it could be. At present I maybe use 20% of the bikes power for 75% of the time. With 52bhp maybe I'll be getting at 75% of it's power for 80% of the time with enough in reserve for overtakes at legal limits. These are of course estimated percentages but you see what's going on here.

I'm going to test ride one tomorrow and see how I feel about this theory. In the meantime, thoughts please...

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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many many similar threads on the same subject and the general conclusion is that you're right.

For me there is a certain minimum threshold below which thing stop working well in normal traffic (IMHO about 30bhp on a dual carriageway) but above that, fun is dependant on how you find it
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wifes YB100 is an absolute hoot and if it's power output is into double figures, I'll be very surprised.

Power output is largely irrelevant, it's what you do with it.

You wont even feel like thrashing a Guzzi. If you're a guzzi person you'll just ride it about with a grin on your face... when you're not fixing the electrics.

52bhp is more than enough to lose your licence.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My KR1S has about 55bhp and is IMMENSELY entertaining. It does weigh less than a gnat's genitalia though, so *shrugs*. You also wouldn't want to do commuting or touring on it really.

I've said for years that 120bhp is about the maximum you want on the road. Anything more and you cannot feel that you're thrashing the thing without getting arrested and the courts throwing away the key. My Street Triple puts out 107bhp (on a dyno) and is almost too mental for the road. I've said for ages that 80-110bhp is a sweet spot, but that's with modern bike weight, and with two stroke weight, under 60bhp is plenty.

That said, I used to have immense fun on my VFR400 NC21 with about 55bhp and 200kg. When I first rode it, it was like warp drive to me, even restricted to 33bhp.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 10:38 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would probably be OK day to day with 50-60hp, either having to work hard for it, or be lazy.

Having 150+ though makes my willy bigger Laughing
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A stock KX500E is around 55-60 at the back wheel. Yet to meet anyone that can get off one without a giant shit-eating grin or looking utterly terrified.

Buckets of power help if you're chasing laptimes or 1/4miles, no so much while having fun and not losing your license.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a "spirited group ride" I'd want a hundred horses or more to keep up with the cool kids. But I don't do that sort of riding.

Solo, and out for pleasure rather than commuting, I have more fun with less power and speed.

The ~70hp of my Tractor is very accessible without having to bang down 3 gears to get to it, but even with that modest (by modern standards) output, most of it goes unused most of the time.

~20hp on an Enfield is just fine if you're out to go nowhere in no particular time.

Every one of the 30 horses in a NInja 250 can be hilariously used and abused. Rev limiter, rev limiter, rev limiter... oooh, 60mph.

70hp+ from an IL4 doesn't suit my idiom: by the time the fun comes in, I'm already out of my comfort zone on poorly maintained, heavily trafficked $CURRENT_YEAR UK public highways.

If I could only have one bike, it reckon it would be a twin in the 40 - 60 range. Guzzi, Bonneville / Thruxton, Duke 390 if it wasn't a Duke 390, the new Ninja 400 might be interesting. A naked version might be interestinger.

But triple figure rev machines? Nah, not for me.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think around 100 is the right spot for me.

I've ridden bikes with more but find you can rarely push it. For me they are fun for a little while but I prefer to feel like I'm ragging it. With ~90-100 I have enough to keep me interested for years and enough to fairly regularly full throttle to the redline line in the first 2-3 gears.

Riding the same speed on a bike with more power isn't as fun, and riding it TO THE MAX, isn't as fesible.
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TheMadRatter
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on where I'm going and how long I've got to get there Razz

I'm happy pootling around on 8hp chinese 125. Also happy with 90something bhp Fazer.

Personally, I prefer an engine that doesn't have to work to get moving so the torque is where it's at for me - not overly interested int he top speed I can achieve lol.

I'm too old before my time... hand me my GL1800 keys Laughing
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Last edited by TheMadRatter on 11:33 - 09 Mar 2018; edited 1 time in total
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F1.ash
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, positive posts. I was looking forward to this ride anyhow but it's good to know that my thoughts aren't without foundation.

I ride on my own for pleasure with no particular schedule or deadline, no commuting and no track days so maybe this will work.

Thank you gents Thumbs Up
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 11:24 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the 30ish hp from my old Ninja 250 was the most fully usable power from an engine I have used.

I remember keeping that thing pinned doing ~90-100mph chasing Nemo on his Mille from Maidstone to Tunbridge Wells, literally it was on the limiter for the most part and could carry corner speed happily so roundabouts that were large enough were a mere blip, where as him slowing from 140 then working back up meant I could eek closer.

I really enjoyed it, but I'd probably want that little bit more, so 50-60 is probably ideal.
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Cadbury
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently riding an NC700 @46bhp claimed.

It's... ok. Gets you where you need to go but doesn't quite have the rush of speed that my previous bikes had.

It does weigh 218kg though, so i wonder where the sweet spot for power/weight lies? a 390 duke has pretty much the same power, but weighs nearly 80kg less.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cadbury wrote:
I wonder where the sweet spot for power/weight lies? a 390 duke has pretty much the same power, but weighs nearly 80kg less.


KX500 has 10 more and weighs ~100KG. Not exactly what you would pick for a relaxing bimble around the countryside though, most people regard it as an animal to ride.
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TheMadRatter
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:

KX500 has 10 more and weighs ~100KG.


How on earth does my 8hp, 168kg 125 get to 70?!

And I feel somewhat inadequate that 8hp is sufficient for me Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
literally it was on the limiter for the most part

It's a right giggle, that. Even I love spanking my tiddler.

But then sometimes I enjoy just using the lazy torque gearing thread on the Tractor.

Many many bikes, that's the answer. Enjoy them while we still can.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

70hp+ from an IL4 doesn't suit my idiom: by the time the fun comes in, I'm already out of my comfort zone on poorly maintained, heavily trafficked $CURRENT_YEAR UK public highways.

If I could only have one bike, it reckon it would be a twin in the 40 - 60 range. Guzzi, Bonneville / Thruxton, Duke 390 if it wasn't a Duke 390, the new Ninja 400 might be interesting. A naked version might be interestinger.

But triple figure rev machines? Nah, not for me.

Have you had a go on a triple Roger? For me it's not BHP that counts it's torque. That's what you need for day to day
riding, a good strong pull at any revs and in pretty much any gear. Mine tops out at 11k. But it still pulls HARD at 2k
3k 4k 5k 6k 7k 8k and 9k. TBH if you're going for it, first gear is pretty useless. Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Have you had a go on a triple Roger?

Nope, I do want to give one a try at some point though.

By all accounts its the best of both worlds, but even the base Street Triple likely delivers much performance for my needs. First gear problem. Sad
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kgm
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:

Have you had a go on a triple Roger? For me it's not BHP that counts it's torque. That's what you need for day to day
riding, a good strong pull at any revs and in pretty much any gear. Mine tops out at 11k. But it still pulls HARD at 2k
3k 4k 5k 6k 7k 8k and 9k. TBH if you're going for it, first gear is pretty useless. Laughing


I love that engine.
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GSTEEL32
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm more persuaded by the engines characteristics, rather than the outright bhp.

Personally , I think 80-100 horses, in a V-Twin, is about as good as it gets for me.

With something like that, I can commute quite lazily, but still give it the beans if I'm in the mood.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A CB500 makes a claimed 55bhp and with a good rider, you'd struggle to keep up with them on a road on anything.

One of the fastest riders I've seen on normal roads, bar none, was on an SZR660 single. He had a running battle over about 300 miles of fast twisty Scottish A-roads with the fastest rider in our club on a ZX9R (someone who decided to take up club racing 2 years ago at the age of 50 and has got a sponsored ride in the Spa classics this year). They arrived together.

An SZR660 makes about 40bhp.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on you, and the kind of riding you do/places you ride. There is no set "you need x bhp". Small, low powered bikes can be fun; large, high powered bikes can be fun.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just as much fun on my rf400r (58bhp -but more realistically its around 45 after all these years) as I do on the 1200 bandit or the 1250.
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Baffler186
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

For commuting, my ~25bhp Hondamatic was just enough to get ahead of cars, but I would still want double that on a motorway. That said, speeds above 60 were not pleasant, it was like riding a tumble dryer. For pleasure though, it was enough for that sort of bike and that sort of ride, a bit like the Enfield.

The Sv650 is ideal for me for both commuting and pleasure, which is what I need it for being the only bike I have.

So in summary, 70ish bhp from a twin would be my minimum for a do-it-all bike, perhaps 60ish from an IL4
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Loui5D
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm quite happy with the 46 that i'm getting from the restricted 'Strom, to the extent that i'm not in any rush to get a full beans license.

But i don't ride fast at all, i'll happily bimble along.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 09 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
An SZR660 makes about 40bhp.


TZR125 Belgardia frame, based on the TZR250 3MA. Well known for awesome handling and corner speed.

When I'm in full confidence mode on my Buell on twisty roads not a lot can keep up with that if I'm honest. Total grunt and supreme handling.

I remember I went for a ride with a mate who bought my old Daytona 955i. We're talking at least 30bhp more than the Buell, and I think he struggled a bit. I was on it that day, I can't remember a time where I felt as confident on a bike. I've had a few accidents since then, but I guess that's why I still have a Buell.
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