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BHP required for 'normal' riding

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Jayy
Mr. Ponzi



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 03:05 - 16 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I think Jayy's reply is very true and that as little as 10-15bhp can be fun in the right setting and environment. So really there ain't no ideal bike for every highway, road and journey.

Hell in a 20mph zoned city I'd see a de-restricted 50cc scooter with what 5bhp to be enough and enjoyable. We are all different though and the likes of M.C think a 5bhp bike in a 20mph zone would be suicidal. God knows what he thinks of riding a push bike or 250w electric assistance bike on the road. But we live in different places with different traffic and road layouts etc.

I understand those people with only one bike for the commute and for fun liking a 160-200bhp beast as it's their toy, adrenaline rush, and work hack all in one.

But my question to those that say their 200bhp is useful for road use and spirited overtakes etc, I'd say how much of your 200bhp are you actually using when riding it? If 100bhp is as far as you need to turn the throttle to blast past traffic, then is your second hundred ponies just for show/pub bragging rights etc? There's the aspect of legality in terms of speeding, but more than that there's only so many bhp you can send to the road on acceleration at or from low speed, without flipping it over itself or lighting up and burning out the back tyre, and that's all when your bolt upright on a straight road.

Sure if you want to accelerate stupendously fast from 100mph to 150mph then 200bhp is better than 100bhp, but you can't do it without massive law breaking, so again it becomes irrelevant for most peoples level of law abiding.

Power alone definitely doesn't equate to fun levels for me. I'd find much more fun, excitement and involvement in trying to get a 14bhp pit bike round a karting track in the fastest possible lap time, than I would accelerating like a rocket from 100mph on a motorway for example.

Its not any different to the people that commute to work in a 350bhp hatchback. Its never going to be used in rush hour traffic and your grip limited even on a clear road.


You know what it is Stevo? Just because it's there if you want it.

How much of 200bhp am I using on the road? Fuck all and likely hardly ever going to touch upon it but if I want a blast, breaking the law or not, I can if I want to and that's what I like about it.
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fireyphoenix1...
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PostPosted: 05:41 - 16 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally i dont actually think it matters in a road bike tho i will say i want at least 60 for riding with a pillion plus luggage.
I went from a GS500E to a RF600 then a fireblade and back down to a 90hp "claimed" Dorsoduro.
I am have much more fun on the dorso as i can use the power it has far more often. A high HP rating really does not matter on a road bike imo as you just cant use it.Fair play to any one if they want it, and sure its nice to have tho Very Happy .

Its how it makes the power that matters be it a mad twin with mountains of instant torque to a sceaming small cc IL4 or stroker.
The most fun i have ever had on a bike was a day out on a CBR 250RR. The 20K redline mentalcase one not the modern disappointment.
Not much power but banging that off the limiter chasing rpms up the box without hitting silly speeds is legal and far more fun than rolling on in 2nd on the fireblade ever was.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 16 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I'd say how much of your 200bhp are you actually using when riding it? If 100bhp is as far as you need to turn the throttle to blast past traffic

Gearing thread I'd quite like to try a massively down-geared 600 IL4 just for kicks.
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331X2
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 16 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really got on with the power/character of the engine in my old GPZ500, that engine in a lighter, better handling frame would be my ideal bike. I'm never going to be a commuter or fast road rider so having something that you have to flog to death to make decent progress is the biggest part of the fun for me.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 16 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's lots to it, and as said people are more after character and an interesting delivery than outright bhp.

Also you can have say 200bhp in different ways. You could have a big cc low down tyre shredder that has more torque than physics laws allow use of, or you could have 200bhp at 13-14000rpm, with not very much going on at all for most of the Rev range.

Anyway im satisfied with this thread overall, as the consensus has gone in favour of almost anything can be fun, and a fixed or target number that is best is pretty much bollocks.

Also people are mentioning power delivery and bikes character as higher on the list than speed or power absolute.

I hate to quote TM, but the idea of a dull 250 or 400cc single or twin like a linear single or twin commuter bike could be a 100mph bike.

But a 125 could also be a 90-100mph bike, but one is going to feel faster than it is and exciting to ride or get the best out of, and one isn't. Its the same as someone saying about the CBR 250RR being a ton of screaming fun, but say a just as fast GS500 or Divvy 600 being ditch water in comparison.
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biker7
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 16 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:


But my question to those that say their 200bhp is useful for road use and spirited overtakes etc, I'd say how much of your 200bhp are you actually using when riding it? If 100bhp is as far as you need to turn the throttle to blast past traffic, then is your second hundred ponies just for show/pub bragging rights etc? There's the aspect of legality in terms of speeding, but more than that there's only so many bhp you can send to the road on acceleration at or from low speed, without flipping it over itself or lighting up and burning out the back tyre, and that's all when your bolt upright on a straight road.

Sure if you want to accelerate stupendously fast from 100mph to 150mph then 200bhp is better than 100bhp, but you can't do it without massive law breaking, so again it becomes irrelevant for most peoples level of law abiding.



If you think 200bhp is not required then for you it probably is not. However most riders progress to a 1000cc bike or higher sooner or later. Yes you don't need the power all the time but for getting out of trouble even at lower speeds high power is regularly used skillfully by the experienced rider. Often those who have lower powered bikes claim that's all you need. Well yes I suppose that's natural. The lower your power the more you use full throttle. I don't need to use it often but would not like to be without the option. Law breaking is possible on a 125 so to highlight the 'big boys' is unfair. Ride within your capabilities and if your power ceiling suits your needs, that's fine. But don't knock 200bhp. It's there when you want it. Most bikers admire the IoM TT whatever they ride. I rarely do bonkers. But my bike can. That's probably why I bought it.
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 08:03 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve done a few Euro trips, and my fiend on his R6 always struggles a little compared to the rest of us on liter bikes, not because he’s slow, but he’s always having to work that bit harder when the pace picks up -between 50 and 100mph.

As highlighted many times, more power does no way equal more fun, but my point is really about having one bike to do it all. Real world riding to me is big mileage days at the weekend, touring and the odd track day, and in my opinion, 100bhp is definitely not the best tool for the job in this case. Horses for courses and all that..
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
However most riders progress to a 1000cc bike or higher sooner or later.

https://www.mcia.co.uk/admin/images/uploaded_images/[statistics-news-and-press_329]Press%20Statistics%20201712.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/9ziRk6W.png

Is 21,361 "most" of 105,467? How about 22,421 of 128,644?

In terms of 200bhp, that'd be litre+ supersports, maybe sports touring. Added together, and even assuming every one of them were litre+ bikes, that'd be 12,394 out of 105,467 in 2017. Is that "most"? Thinking
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biker7
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


Is 21,361 "most" of 105,467? How about 22,421 of 128,644?


Always loads of small stuff on the roads...2 wheeled transport. Bikers who progress through the ranks are not really quantified by bikes on the road stats. If you think smaller engined slower bikes are somehow just as desirable as superbikes my friend, keep on the inside lane and enjoy your ride! I would imagine many reading this thread would be scared shitless on a mega horsepower bike. Most are at first but those who stick with it will tell you
what it feels like to ride the best. Ask yourself this question: if you won the Lottery, what are your top 3 bikes? This thread is about 'normal' riding. For me riding a bike is not about normal. Reach out guys, there is probably even more fun to be had out there!
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
Ask yourself this question: if you won the Lottery, what are your top 3 bikes?

All smaller capacity bikes which make no financial sense buying now Smile The biggest bikes I lust after are a 796 Hypermotard or MT-09, as litre+ bikes are too heavy IMO.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
litre+ bikes are too heavy for the riding I do.


Wink

Sorry, I'm just not keen on sweeping statements on a subject like this Smile
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
M.C wrote:
litre+ bikes are too heavy for the riding I do.


Wink

Sorry, I'm just not keen on sweeping statements on a subject like this Smile

Do you never have to brake or corner then?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

Do you never have to brake or corner then?


This requires a lengthy answer Shocked

But instead, I'll just say that if your brakes and suspension are up to the job, weight is less of a problem. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
litre+ bikes are too heavy IMO.


I'm a 5'4 (and a half) 10 stone weakling.

If you have to wrestle the weight you're riding wrong.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
M.C wrote:

Do you never have to brake or corner then?


This requires a lengthy answer Shocked

Does it? Smile Americans with their Harleys have different roads so are fine riding a big heavy lump.

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
If you have to wrestle the weight you're riding wrong.

I don't wrestle with the weight, I've ridden 220-240kg bikes without issue.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:05 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

I don't wrestle with the weight, I've ridden 220-240kg bikes without issue.


Did you never have to brake or corner? Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can feel the extra weight, especially under braking. Just out of curiosity how many times have you ended up in a hedge on a lightweight bike?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Just out of curiosity how many times have you ended up in a hedge on a lightweight
bike?


Same as on a heavier one: once Laughing
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone bet MC is a seven stone weakling and not a real man?
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 188kg KTM is just as easy to maneuver as my 160kg Triumph. The weight argument used to make sense but modern 200kg superbikes are as agile as 600cc sportsbikes.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 17 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAMSXR wrote:
My 188kg KTM is just as easy to maneuver as my 160kg Triumph. The weight argument used to make sense but modern 200kg superbikes are as agile as 600cc sportsbikes.


I think M.C is under the impression that all litre+ bikes handle like Harleys. But no doubt he'll adjust his rhetoric to try to make himself look more experienced, if he replies Razz Or attack me with his unending wit, for having crashed bikes in the past Laughing

I dunno, some people learn how to ride from chatting on internet forums. Others learn from actual riding.

BTW M.C, is that Striple of yours on the road yet?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:56 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
Anyone bet MC is a seven stone weakling and not a real man?

9 stone Folded arms What does strength have to do with it? Apart from when pushing the bike around.

chickenstrip wrote:
I think M.C is under the impression that all litre+ bikes handle like Harleys. But no doubt he'll adjust his rhetoric to try to make himself look more experienced, if he replies Razz Or attack me with his unending wit, for having crashed bikes in the past Laughing

I dunno, some people learn how to ride from chatting on internet forums. Others learn from actual riding.

BTW M.C, is that Striple of yours on the road yet?

Is your Fazer? Found a petrol station that takes food stamps yet? Razz

It's a simple concept, maybe it's been that long since you rode a light bike you've forgotten the impact weight has. And no the street triple isn't particularly light either. It shows how used to lardy bikes people have become that 180 odd kg is considered light (I consider it a middleweight).
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 02:26 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be careful people with comparing new/modern bikes to older ones, ad it's the same minefield as bhp figures, as they decided to start quoting kerb weights, meaning that you can't compare bikes without your own set of scales now.

Oh and I've ignored it and thought better of it so far, but sorry Biker7 your pretty much full of shit tbh! Read how your posts come across as you sitting on some overlooking pedestal on your just under 200bhp sports tourer.

You seem to think that until someone rides owns and fully maxes out a litre sports bike on the highway that they are pussies, and that you have mastered every bike up to 1000cc so now your a 1300cc king.

If you think that bhp alone makes for character, excitement and that weight isn't relevant your pretty deluded. I guarantee that a well set up Aprilia RS250 on a twisty road would not only leave your Busa floundering, but while your sweating and swearing trying to override it to keep up, you won't be having a fraction of the fun.

For the sort of riding I do, and the roads I like to ride a KTM 125 EXC could give me a huge hard on. A bike like a CBR650F or a Z800 would be nothing like as fun, or nimble enough nor give me the grin factor I look for in my very limited amount of time I spend riding bikes a year.

I've ridden and had bikes up to 110bhp at 192kg and I never needed more power, but have ridden bikes with more and they weren't essential to either my needs or my ego. I was once going to part chop my 600 for a new Fireblade 154bhp, but it was just because I had money burning a hole at the time and didn't need a car at the time.

I think we all like the idea of having something with a big capacity engine or high bhp that we don't need. I once wanted to buy a 330bhp Mitsubishi (car) but it was because I like the looks, and design of them not because I would need to use that performance on the road.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 02:47 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

Is your Fazer? Found a petrol station that takes food stamps yet? Razz


Meh, hard times come, and hard times go. Not the first time I've had to do without riding bikes for a while. Not had to sell this one yet, and that's something, I suppose.

Quote:
It's a simple concept, maybe it's been that long since you rode a light bike you've forgotten the impact weight has. And no the street triple isn't particularly light either. It shows how used to lardy bikes people have become that 180 odd kg is considered light (I consider it a middleweight).


There is some truth to the fact that riding these Fazers for so long, I've got used to the weight, and did indeed consider the Striple as a light bike. However, what I didn't like about the lighter weight of the Striple was that poor road surfaces tended to throw it around a bit. I'd be committed to a line through a bend, hit a series of bumps, and have to back off the throttle to keep things under control. Lord knows how anything lighter still copes with today's poorly maintained surfaces.

This isn't a problem with the Fazer. It just steamrollers over everything Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 03:25 - 18 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the suspension was considered a weak point of the striple and your Fazer had R1 forks? Smile
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