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 Topic moved: from Random Banter to Politics & Current Affairs by G (10 Mar 2018 - 15:05)
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
Instead of offering any alternative, they just play down the opposition.


https://pics.me.me/oh-the-irony-ts-toomucie-33960611.png
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found these two images interesting:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/3836/production/_104709341_battensmall.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/FB0E/production/_104707246_londonprotestlo.jpg

If Rogerborg was here he'd be saying one group has a genetic predisposition not to fight off invading forces Thinking
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once more, Corbyn is the leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. He is paid to provide an opposing view to that of the Government. His personal view is that we should leave the EU.

Those protesters don't look overly 'tooled up' to me, unless beany-hats, PMT and quorn sandwiches count. The blokes look worried in that photo!

Judging by the placards, it does look as if the counter-protest is mainly against YL. We know that having YL on board is a calculated risk for UKIP. Does the low turnout at the weekend and the strength of opposition demonstrate that the gamble has failed?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Corbyn is the leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. He is paid to provide an opposing view to that of the Government. His personal view is that we should leave the EU.

Do you have a source for that? I genuinely don't believe he wants to leave, he just knows saying as much (rather than just heavily implying) will cause the remaining white working class voters Labour has to disown his party, and despite what 'they' want you to believe there are quite a lot of them in this country, and they're key to any election success (remember Mondeo man)?

I've talked to old(er) people and they were against the EU way back when because it was fashionable to be anti-establishment/government. Now it's fashionable to be supposedly tolerant and all-encompassing (except for the Jews if you're Corbyn) so that's why they're pro-EU.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is his voting record. Unless he has genuinely changed his mind in recent years (which I doubt as his political views seem entrenched) he wants us to leave.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever happened to the concept of Mondeo-man? I can't think of anybody I know who would fit the stereotype nowadays.....
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
This is his voting record. Unless he has genuinely changed his mind in recent years (which I doubt as his political views seem entrenched) he wants us to leave.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

As I understand it Corbyn was always a backbench rebel, remember what I said about it being fashionable? Smile I can't see anything definitive from what he's said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35743994

Also just a reminder I have no doubts his position now is solely to undermine the Tories.

Diggs wrote:
Whatever happened to the concept of Mondeo-man? I can't think of anybody I know who would fit the stereotype nowadays.....

It's 3-series (on) finance man now Wink
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I've talked to old(er) people and they were against the EU way back when because it was fashionable to be anti-establishment/government. Now it's fashionable to be supposedly tolerant and all-encompassing (except for the Jews if you're Corbyn) so that's why they're pro-EU.


I suspect some of it is down to a sense of entitlement that seems to have developed, and the notion that the EU will provide everything. Having to get on and do things for yourself and take responsibility does seem to be less fashionable.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. As clear as mud re. his current opinions. It is harder to offer an opinion when it is likely to be challenged.... Easy when he was a back-bencher and nobody cared or took notice.

I agree, his position now is solely to undermine the Tories. Given the present Government's failings, it is easy to see why. He has to be a little bit careful though because nobody likes a hyena....
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:
M.C wrote:
I've talked to old(er) people and they were against the EU way back when because it was fashionable to be anti-establishment/government. Now it's fashionable to be supposedly tolerant and all-encompassing (except for the Jews if you're Corbyn) so that's why they're pro-EU.


I suspect some of it is down to a sense of entitlement that seems to have developed, and the notion that the EU will provide everything. Having to get on and do things for yourself and take responsibility does seem to be less fashionable.

Along with diversity that's one of the most irritating buzzwords Smile It's interesting Jackie Stewart reminds everyone regularly that tax evasion (had avoidance been coined then? Very Happy) was seen as a 'cool' thing, sticking it to the man, which with the income tax rates back then I can see why they did it.

Now anti-taxation seems to be more of a right wing concept, maybe it always was, it's just interesting how political beliefs seem to have switched.


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Diggs
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst he is playing fast and loose with his views on Brexit and using it as a lever to get into power, I don't think this changes his deeply held views on social inequality.

At least he isn't relying upon latent xenophobia.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
I don't think this changes his deeply held views on social inequality.

Is that inequality equal though? I don't see Labour as the 'working class' party* like old Labour was.

*I don't think there's one**

**It definitely isn't TR and UKIP Smile
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

...over my head, bunny-boy!
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean that or do you mean 'anti-zionism'?
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it you have googled them both and understand the difference?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
...over my head, bunny-boy!

Blair invest... spent (Wink) money on inner-city education leaving the white-working class least likely to go to university. I doubt Corbyn will be any different, it's all about which groups are most worthy now, rather than equality being about you know... equality.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotcha. What you are saying is that money was invested on education in areas with a higher proportion of people that aren't white, because people in those areas are more worthy.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless there's another reason, it seems strange to ignore other regions where GCSE grades were an issue:
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/58114000/gif/_58114178_schooleague464.gif

Obviously that's just one example, but I don't see Labour/Corbyn being the champion of all social inequality, just the fashionable causes.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at that, kids do better in London, bits of Wales, North Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and that vague area to the west of London. It doesn't make sense because you have rural areas such as N Yorks, Wales and Lincolnshire doing well, then rural places like Northumberland and East Anglia doing poorly.

I reckon a better way of illustrating it would be to show the amount of money spent per pupil in the respective areas, and compare this to a demographic breakdown of who lived where at the time.
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