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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 23 Mar 2018    Post subject: Street Epistemology Reply with quote
Anyone here ever heard about a thing called Street Epistemology? I was on a religious debating forum recently when someone mentioned a guy called Anthony Magnabosco who has practiced SE for the last 5 years. After watching lots of his vids i'm convinced that it might be the only way to ever defeat religious belief. Christian apologists are very afraid of it, and how effective it can be.

Basically, it's about respectfully asking questions of believers (usually on their god belief, but can be about almost any belief in something without evidence), rather than simply trying to hammer logic and reason into them. What's that saying...You cannot reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into...?

Based on the Socratic Method (and a book written by Peter Boghossian called 'A Manual for Creating Atheists'), it is essentially, giving people the gift of doubt. I think it's a great tool for all atheists to use to discuss belief with religious people but without contention, and is the most effective way of helping those who have been programmed to believe to doubt that belief.

Here's the guy's channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh10RgQgGuM-tnT7fKwgF4Dt57oh_yL5r

I'm interested to see what BCF makes of it.

Enjoy! Thumbs Up
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 00:06 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: Street Epistemology Reply with quote
Mr Hammers wrote:
Christian apologists are very afraid of it, and how effective it can be.


I'd hazard a guess that our Islamic chums don't fear it in the slightest. You could test this by raising some questions about their faith and the teachings of the prophet PBUH in your local Islamic ghetto. Do let us know how you got on.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sounds like a way of trying to convert bible bashers into non believers.

Am oot.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 01:37 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello, timid white agnostics! Let me ejaculate the most basic-bitch disjunctions at you until you get bored and wander off and I declare victory over all zealots!

Take it to Riyadh, and then we can talk.
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 02:28 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Sounds like a way of trying to convert bible bashers into non believers.

It's a gentle way of encouraging anyone with deeply held beliefs to think and understand why it is they hold those beliefs. In a very respectful and neutral way.

All parties seem enjoy it and get something out of it, whether they get converted or not. Usually an eye-opening and pleasant experience for everyone involved, what's wrong with that? Very Happy

Quote:
Am oot.


DON'T MAKE ME GET A FUCKING CHART OUT YOU SCOTCH CUNT
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 02:44 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: Street Epistemology Reply with quote
ThoughtControl wrote:
Mr Hammers wrote:
Christian apologists are very afraid of it, and how effective it can be.


I'd hazard a guess that our Islamic chums don't fear it in the slightest. You could test this by raising some questions about their faith and the teachings of the prophet PBUH in your local Islamic ghetto. Do let us know how you got on.


The only reason i mentioned the christian apologists as they are actively trying to discount SE because of it's effectiveness. Don't worry, Imams will catch on too, eventually.

Anyway, it's not about confrontation. It's about respectfully asking questions and getting the interviewee to think for himself. Watch a video or two and you'll see.

There's interviews with muslims, christians, jews, atheists...all sorts and no one has killed him yet.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 07:56 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not featured are the video he gets told to fuck right off, where he gets told he'll burn in hell for all eternity and the videos where threats are made against him and his family. Wink

I'm disappointed that he's chosen not to respectfully ask questions to those who believe in flying spaghetti monsters. Crying or Very sad
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anny approach in which an individual works to convince another individual will not scale up to the required numbers. And this is even without taking into consideration everything about how difficult it is to get a person to change their views when confronted with facts (just look at all the anti vaxxers, flat earthers, isolationists and so on).

What has worked reasonably well over the last few hundred years is comfort in conjunction with education. Give it a few generations and religion withers away.
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Not featured are the video he gets told to fuck right off, where he gets told he'll burn in hell for all eternity and the videos where threats are made against him and his family. Wink

I honestly don't think he'd shy away from uploading anything like that. Some of the early ones are pretty awful interviews but he still published them, and he's never mentioned having any threatening ones. As Borg pointed out, he is in pretty safe environments too.

Quote:
I'm disappointed that he's chosen not to respectfully ask questions to those who believe in flying spaghetti monsters. Crying or Very sad

It's not a case of 'chosen' as such, as he'll talk to anyone who'll talk to him, so it's luck of the draw. I guess it's just there's not many atheists on US campuses, or at least not many able to admit it on camera anyway. There is at least one interview with an atheist who believes in karma though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtA9HPk7r20
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
Anny approach in which an individual works to convince another individual will not scale up to the required numbers. And this is even without taking into consideration everything about how difficult it is to get a person to change their views when confronted with facts (just look at all the anti vaxxers, flat earthers, isolationists and so on).


In one of his SE presentations he does raise this very point. It's all well and good talking to believers for 10-15 minutes, but the majority will probably go straight back into a situation where they're subject to 24 hour pressure to believe, so all the work is undone. Also, how do you measure the effectiveness accurately, so you can be sure it works (a case of using SE on itself to determine its value)

The method isn't without it's weaknesses, but again i'd come back to the idea that it's better to converse in a civil manner and freely exchange information to gain a better understanding rather than shouting pointlessly at each other all day long.

Quote:
What has worked reasonably well over the last few hundred years is comfort in conjunction with education. Give it a few generations and religion withers away.


I agree, but see no downside to accelerating that process, if possible.
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: Street Epistemology Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Will they feck.


I think they might one day realise the potential danger to their belief system the same as the apologists have begun to realise the danger to theirs, if it starts to gain traction. But this isn't some magic bullet to someone who believes 10lb of C4 in a shopping centre is a good place for it, btw, this is to try and reduce the tendency for blind faith to thrive, and promote critical thinking. The more popular that becomes, the less chance fanaticism has to take hold.

Quote:
Criticising Islam is illegal in modern day Britain, criticising Christinaity is fine though, because it doesn't trigger SJW's

It's not about criticising religion. Rolling Eyes

Quote:

Free speech is dead in this country, as is democracy.

Maybe so, but that's irrelevant to this thread.
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Re: Street Epistemology Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Mr Hammers wrote:
It's not about criticising religion. Rolling Eyes

Of course not.

It isn't. I can't say it more plainly than that. Pointing at a Honda and insisting it's a Yamaha, still won't make it a Yamaha.

Quote:
I'm sure your average Muslim will be quite happy at someone trying to prove Allah doesn't exist.

If you took the time to actually watch some, you'd see muslims are interviewed as well, and seem to enjoy it as much as anyone else, so i can confidently say yes, your average muslim is happy to be questioned.

Quote:
Think Salman Rushdie and Charlie Hebdo.

It doesn't claim to fix people who are so far gone in the head that they want to kill someone because of a book or a picture.

Quote:
Islam is untouchable in this country, nobody is allowed to question it's morality or validity.

Do black people have some kind of special dispensation or something then..? because they do: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPugYoYKJBdRpVH82zkkEXQ
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Hello, timid white agnostics!

Some are far from timid, and most far from being agnostics.
Quote:
Let me ejaculate the most basic-bitch disjunctions at you..

Ejaculating reasoned questions respectfully. Not opinions, own viewpoints or contentious arguments.
Quote:
...until you get bored and wander off and I declare victory over all zealots!

Most seem to enjoy the experience, and despite it supposed to be only a 5 minute talk, often go on for much longer.

There is no 'victory' as it's neither a war or a competition. The only victory is if someone at some point in the future starts to think critically, instead of relying on their blind faith.

Quote:
Take it to Riyadh, and then we can talk.

If you're suggesting that people in Riyadh wouldn't be convinced, then you're probably right. You can't undo hundreds of years of religious indoctrination overnight. This is just a communication tool that sows the seeds of doubt.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mr Hammers wrote:
most far from being agnostics.

[...]

If you're suggesting that people in Riyadh wouldn't be convinced, then you're probably right.

Which is it?

If he's not deprogramming salafists and wahabbists, what's the point of him?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mr Hammers wrote:
Most seem to enjoy the experience

Citation? Wink

Mr Hammers wrote:
I guess it's just there's not many atheists on US campuses

Pastafarians are not atheists.
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
If he's not deprogramming salafists and wahabbists, what's the point of him?

Extreme believers tend to thrive more when the majority, who usually don't want to kill everyone, either passively or actively, support them. Without that support, the lunatics at the extreme end of the scale would be weaker and have less leverage than they do.

As i've tried to make clear in almost every post is that this approach, i think, could potentially change views at the base level of that majority, albeit incrementally (at least now while it's still relatively unknown), not that it can magically replace logic and reason in a place overnight where logic and reason haven't existed for decades.

It may turn out that it has no value, that he has no value, and the whole thing is really a waste of time. Personally, i think it/he does have value, and that will eventually prove to be the case when/if it ever gains decent traction. But even then, it could still take a long long time to change the fundamental nature of nations for the better.

It's a bit like asking what's the point of telephones when only ten people had them... when only ten people had them! Very Happy
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 23:44 - 24 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Mr Hammers wrote:
Most seem to enjoy the experience

Citation? Wink

"I really enjoyed the experience!"
- someone who really enjoyed the experience

Happy now?! Laughing

Quote:
Pastafarians are not atheists.

I promise you, if he ever does find a Pastafarian to interview, i will let you know immediately. Thumbs Up Cool
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 26 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like to think of myself as a free thinker

someone who forms their own opinions and beliefs, especially about religion or politics, rather than just accepting what is officially or commonly believed and taught
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 26 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
I read the title of this thread as "Street Episiotomy", which conjured up a very strange image Shocked
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 10 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does it work with Brexiters, too? Try it on this forum and let me know...
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 10 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sounds like blasphemy, Anti-Mohamed-Menteriasm-disestablishmenteriaism to me.

Ah'm oot tae.

Very Happy
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 11 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Londoner2015 wrote:
Does it work with Brexiters, too? Try it on this forum and let me know...

Let's begin.

Are you familiar with how EU laws are created, and by whom?
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 11 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Somewhat (I am certainly no legal scholar). Are you?
What are the first horribly wrong and oppressive EU laws you’ll want to get rid of, and why?

Also: Brexiters have blatanly lied about the NHS bus.
They have not explained what kind of relationship they will want with the EU.
They have not explained what will happen with respect to the Irish border.
They have no idea what’s going to happen to the financial sector, to the manufacturing sector that’s so reliant on exporting to the EU (think cars), etc.
Need I go on?
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 10 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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