Yamaha dragstar 125 hill problems.

[Finnian]

I'm looking at getting my first bike, at the moment I'm pretty set on a yamaha dragstar 125.

However, i live in a very hilly part of the UK and have heard that the dragstar can struggle with hills, does anyone have any first hand experience of this and how much of an impact does hill have?

Also, are hills just a problem for all 125s in general because of lack of power?

[Johnnythefox]

Early xv125 only made 10bhp late xv125 make 13bhp.

[Powderhead]

[stevo as b4]

A light weight and short geared 125 like a trail bike will not have a problem with hills at urban speed limits. Mine was ok anyway.

You can't have a 125 that'll do 70mph+ and still be good at climbing steep hills or accelerating from the lights in town, so you want gearing to suit the usage.

But a 10bhp 125 cruiser that weighs probably nearly 150kg isn't going to be much good on the open road whatever you do with it.

[doggone]

Like any lower powered vehicle, you're soon going to be down into lower gears.
If you have to do hill starts two up on a very steep road it might not go too well.

Becoming familiar with your bike and getting the best from it is all part of the fun. It won't be a disaster just possibly a bit embarrassing on short stretches if you start to hold up other traffic.

[Rogerborg]

There are worse cruisers. The XVS125 claims about 13hp and 150kg wet, but I'd skip the whole 125 cruiser scene. I had a 250 copy-XV that was comically lardy, with no top end at all. The 125 weighs about as much and is even more underpowered.

If you want the looks without the lard, consider a YBR Custom, although really you'd be better off with something bang on the 11kW limit like a Derbi Terra, if you can find one.
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[Powderhead]

[ThatDippyTwat]

If you *really* want a cruiser that has as much power as you can have (legally) on L's, you're looking at Korean stuff. Which isn't a bad thing, they're well enough made, and Hyosung make an awful lot of stuff for Suzuki. I'm not aware of other cruisers that chuck out the full 15HP you're allowed.

Hyosung do an older GA125F if you can find one in decent nick - Frames rust if neglected. It's a 4 valve single making 15HP and 140KG-ish. I commute on one, and it's surprisingly easy to get the pegs down. You certainly won't be beating many "race" 125's off the line though.

There's also the V-Twin GV125, same motor as you find in the GTR and GT Comet which makes 15HP, 150KG-ish, still making them now, I think.

However - I'd strongly suggest getting a boring old YBR125 because there's loads out there, really reliable especially if it's EFI, they take a fair bit of clumsiness on the handling, but can go round corners surprisingly well when you start to get a clue. 20KG (probably more) lighter than any 125 cruiser, far easier to chuck around without bad things happening.
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[Barnoe]

All 125s suffer with hills to a degree....

The Dragstar is at least 10mph slower at top end anyway, and not exactly MotoGP when lights turn green either.
Having said that its not all about speed, its a comfy bike and seating is lower and wider.
People i know who had one said they loved em, but admitted you have to keep on top of the cleaning and protection from the weather.
again, that should be your attitude with any bike.

Im a firm believer than if you have a love for a certain bike, you will never feel like you scratched that itch till you owned one. if you feel like that just buy one

When i had a 125 on a few occasions i would hit a steep hill climb and drop down the gears doing 20-25mph, with car after car going round me giving me dirty looks.... a tad embarrassing :/

This slowing down then speeding up is great if your riding with other 125s doing the same... great fun.
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You know you are old when you're told to slow down by your doctor and not the police.

[linuxyeti]

Yeah, most 'road prepped' 125's are liekly to struggle, at least a little in hilly areas, but not enough to preclude their use ..

Looking at 2nd hand bikes, then, along with the above mentioned bikes ..

Dragstar, Hysosung etc ..

Also worth looking at

Honda shadow 125
Kawasaki BN125
Suzuki Intruder & Marauder 125's

Also, don't rule out some of the chinese models..

Lexmoto have some reasonable cruisers, UM, who are relatively new kids on the block over here, also have some nice looking cruiser type bikes..

A Keeway Superlight 125, is also worth looking at, if you can get a decent 2nd hand 1, they're not bad bikes at all by all accounts, pretty reliable, and the superlight has been around for at least 10 years, and is still in production/for sale in a Euro 4 compliant version.
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[Teflon-Mike]

What do you think of as 'Hilly'?

I was chatting to a chap about trials riding, who envied 'my' hills.... he came from Holland!! I had a cousin who used to grumble about coming to the midlands from Norfolk, for family dos, complaining his cars third gear never did much 'at home'... then he moved to Wales, and complained he'd worn it out! Hills are ALL rather relative.... BUT, bikes have 'gears' and this is what they is for!

Issue with most Learner-Bikes is NOT, repeat NOT the little power they have... its the learner hanging onto the handlebars, who probably don't use them gears properly! And this is NOT just an issue when it comes to hills.

Tendency these days is to short-shift, going up too many gears too soon. This is actually 'taught' as good-practice to car drivers; it isn't, but still, many these days don't ever learn any different; 'maybe' having a twist & go ped at 16, but most likely taking car lessons straight off at 17, getting the car licence, and not bothering with bikes, if they can afford it, until later in life, and skipping the tiddlers and going straight for the big-guns... and many instructors have followed that route these days too, so the 'habbit' gets ingrained.

A car, for all its weight, usually has an engine over 1000cc and 60bhp, and these days is expected to be able to achieve 80-90mph if not more, and go up hills and stuff with 'ease'.... cars, then, even little eccono-boxes, tend to have a certain surfeit of power that makes them 'flexible' and easy to drive.... and they can tolerate a lot of short shifting, making the engine 'labour' in too tall a gear.

Reason its 'assumed' to be 'good-practice' is that if you changed down, engine would be turning faster for the same given road-speed, hence making 'bangs' of burning fuel more often, and that HAS to be inefficient, doesn't it? Actually, it IS, sort of, but not for the usual reasons assumed...

Sooo, backing up to basics; 'Work-Done' is change in energy.... doesn't matter whether you run up a flight of stairs or walk, the amount of 'work-done' is the same... your mass moved a certain height; do it fast, do it slow, matters not, same 'work' has been done.

Same work-done, same energy change, same energy needed to be put 'in' to get that energy-change 'out'.. ergo, same amount of fuel should be used in either case... and practically, it doesn't work much different in the real world; make an engine rev its nuts off, yes, you do loose some efficiency from the 'parasitic load' of having to open and close valves more often and stuff, B-U-T its swings and round-a-bouts; you loose just as much 'efficiency' making an engine labor, where the losses will be in poorer combustion and stuff.. and bottom line an infernal combustion engine is NOT a particularly 'efficient' device to start with.... they chop up the numbers to suit the argument, but, over-all in/out efficiency is pretty dire... only something like 1/3 the energy released during combustion is actually turned into motion, the rest is wasted mostly as heat; but even before that, you are lucky to get much more than half the possible calorific energy the fuel may release on combustion, when you do burn it... B-U-T we live in a nanny-state enviro-tree-hugger-mental society, they don't let the facts ruin a good bit of propaganda!

Oh-Kay..... little bikes don't have a lot of power.... again, back to basics, power is rate of work done. Run up the stairs, you do the same work as walking, but faster... so you need more power, but NOT more energy..... most of the 'work-done' by a bike is shifting air around bike and rider; most bikes, big or small, have pretty much the same frontal area... the size of the rider, and air gets no heavier just cos the bikes engine be bigger! Again, back to basics; it takes roughly 3bhp to shove person sized shape through air at 30mph; takes around 9bhp to shove same person sized shape through air at 60mph; takes about 27bhp to shove, same person sized shape through air at 90mph, and to shove same person sized shape through air at 120mph, takes about 81bhp... give or take a tad.

Sooo.. within UK legal speed limits, shouldn't matter much at all, whether you have a 125cc engine or a 1250cc engine... until you come to a hill.... when, you aren't just shoving air aside, you are trying to lift weight of bike and rider 'up' too... and are asking for more work to be done.

NOW...bike will go up the hill.... mentioned trials, my 250cc trials bike has about 12bhp... you should see how steep some of them hills are! Bike has gone up-em; dragging my 15 stone carcass with it, often on the back wheel! It just hasn't gone up all that fast... and I have been in a pretty low gear to do it!!!!!

You have gears; you learn to use them properly, HILLS no matter how steep... and they usually aren't SO steep on the public roads.... you should be able to go up-em!

Just maybe not so fast.... but... anything else aught have much the same trouble, and similarly slow-down... a Yamaha Drug-stur, is not the only over-weight and under-powered vehicle on the roads, as any-one ever stuck behind a tranny van trying to drag a caravan should be able to testify.....

SO! the bottom line is that roads have hills, bikes have gears to cope with hills, LEARN TO USE THEM!!!

As to the Drug-Ster?!?!? I have to confess that I am NOT a fan of 125 'Cruiserettes'..... they dont 'cruise'
! Idea of a harley-esque cruiser is a big lusty engine with a surfit of power...ish... in the case of most.... that you CAN ride like a car, sticking in a tall gear and not botrhering too much with the gear-box....

125 Cruiserettes, really just do NOT have the surfit of power to do this, they do NOT cruise!

That said... Snowie, the O/H had a Chinky copy of the Honda Rebel cruiserette... over weight and under powered A-N-D gear limited to a top speed of 55mph thanks to Asian market licence regulations.... YET it was possibly ONE of the 'most' fun 125's I have ridden... round DERBYSHIRE! Which is NOT renowned for being all that flat! And working the gears, getting up to road speed, and then being very-very-brave, and/or very very stooooooopid, trying not to wast any of that precious speed, was a huge challenge, incredibly rewarding when I succeeded A-N-D a real 'hoot' along the way.....

At least for me... for you, probably not so much,. and as you get used to it, probably rather frustrating, because you'll blame the bikes obviouse lack of power for not going so fast and the audichoch up your chuff, NOT your lack of skill...... and convince yourself you need a bigger bike.....

Which is WHY they set the 125 learner-limits where they did really.... so folk DO encounter this frustration, and do go for tests so they can have something bigger..... but still..... it CAN be a lot of fun, and it certainly can teach you a heck of a lot about RIDING, and getting the most out of what you got, not looking for the super-cheat-reward-buttons, to buy your way up the ladder rather than work for it.

HOWEVER... ultimately, hills or not, a Drug-stirr, or ANY 125 Cruiserette would NOT be at the top of my learner-legal shopping list.

I do still ride 125's on a full licence; I'm not limited to them by that; and I do have big-bikes to ride; so it is by choice. Mostly because they can,. like the O/H's chinky cruiserette thing, be a lot of fun. But for my money I choose a Yamaha DT125! A very early air-cooled example, with a two-stroke engine, but still. The 125 four-stroke 'twins' that are the Super-Dream I am some-what infamouse for, were actually Snoweies choice, not mine, but that's another story!

WHY WOULDN'T I PICK A 125 CRUISER?

As said, ultimately they just don't 'cruise'. May have the looks, but that's about all. They can, like any 125 be a bit fun, but for most learners they WILL just prove frustrating.

Mentioned that they are over-weight and under-powered. Snowies Chinky 125 Cruiserette, ISTR was nie on identical mass to her current 750 Moto-Guzzi.... where they put it all is something of a mystery; but still; just because it has little engine wont mean it necessarily has little weight!

Force = Mass x Acceleration; gears give you more force, so you HAVE to use the low ones to make them shift, and even then, with as much mass to haul and no surfit of power they aren't going to haul-ass that well... especially on inclines.

BUT, I think the Guzzi tips the scales at a tad over 170Kg; I think that Snowies 125 Cruiserette was a tad under 160Kg; current 125 Super-Dream is I think just over 130Kg..... my old DT was about 90Kg..... almost HALF what the Guzzi weighs..... sounds like a lot, when you look at the comparisons.... BUT, I weigh about 15 stone! That is around 90Kg, so on the road, the numbers in the magazines are only half the story, that little engine has to shift possibly twice that weight, once the rider's aboard, which makes the 'difference' between different bikes look twice as significant as it really is.....

And you got gears.... should NOT be a big isue IF you use them properly, and DONT let audicochs intimidate you....

What DOES put me off a 125 cruiserette, is , first, the chrome... I am not a fan of polishing the stuff, for starters, and that's the only way it stays looking good, and believe me NOTHING looks good with an L-Plate hung off the back! IF any-one even bothers looking... and most of them, certainly the ones you would WANT to look... as in the ones that are going to knock you off.... don't any-way! So dont matter really how 'cool' the chrome, when you is lying in a ditch!

Next; as said they don't 'cruise'; but they dont do much else either! A cruiser is by nature, intended to be long and low, and lazy. It has slow steering, it doesn't like to do much if anything in a particular hurry, it is NOT a particularly 'responsive' style of motorcycle. Worse, to get that long and low 'look' they put the seat low, the pegs ahead, and then pull-back the handle-bars; this MAY be really comfy on a US Inter-State in the Arizona sunshine, it is NOT, a wonderful riding position for dodging UK SMIDY's.

The weight distribution is perverse; you are not in a 'command' position, with best leverage over the bars or the foot-pegs, you do NOT have the leverage or advantage to even TRY and do much in a hurry, even if the bike would!

This does NOT make them easy to learn how to ride on; they are not very good at getting round CBT or MOD 1 slalom cones; they are peculiarly unhelpful in any of that sort of stuff, whether for test or practicing for it, and just as unhelpful on the road, where in daily commute you are likely to need put that sort of training into practice to avoid becoming a BMW hood ornament!

They are, by nature, just far too compromised as a practical mode of every-day transport, by trhe assumed 'style' they are endowed with.

THEN we get to price!!!! They are/were some of the most expensive 125's on the market. ISTR that the Honda Shaddow, was actually more expensive than the Very-Oh-Dear-Oh for a time, and BOTH almost twice the price of a CBF125, itself more expenzive by a couple of hundred quid than a YBR; and it's rather damning when a 125 sits on the show-room floor with a price tag as high as the 'sensible' 500 commuter coming out the same factory!

That is the price of the 'style'! You are NOT getting an awful lot more for the extra money. Yup; it's Japanese; so its probably a bit better built than something from China.... and as a 'flag-ship' model, probably a bit better built than the entry level commuter in the same class... which in the case of Yamaha would be the YBR.... built in china!

Second hand? Yes, well, does bode well they should last better; BUT, you will still be paying as much for a three year old one, degraded by however many numpety learner owners before you get your mits on it, than a brand new out the show-room CBF or YBR.... 125's are only really designed to have a 7-10 year service life, you wait until a 4.5K 'premium' model has depreciated to the same value, there aint going to be all that much life left in the thing.... A-N-D, a £5K demands £5K bike maintenance... with extra body-work and chrome and probably cylinders, its all likely more work to do the same jobs, and the bits for a £5K bike to DO them jobs will likely be just as much over-priced as the bike was in the show-room... so more work, more money, AND more likely to need it.... it is NOT a great recipe for cheap low hassle wheels, and certainly more likely to cost more in time, money & grief than the base models the schools buy.....

ADD to that inflated insurance, based on the new-bike price, and the cost of replacement parts, and the 'numpty-factor' of if you is fool enough to buy an over-priced under performing motorcycle to start with, you probably wont be too bothered about a few quid on the monthlies for the insurance.....

SO! All up, you pay over the odds to buy a bike that's heavier and slower and harder to ride; costs more to insure, more to maintain, and will tend to be harder to maintain, either doing regular work like oiling the chain and tickling tappets, or polishing all that ruddy chrome!

It is just NOT the sort of masocism I am into, and all for the sake of 'style' no-one is likely to be all that impressed by, especially when there's still an L-Plate attached.

If it IS a form of masocism that appeals to you, a-n-d you think its worth the money for that 'look'.. who am I to deny you.... people spemd thosands a year to dress up like Rupart the bear and knock a plastic ball about a field in the hope of loosing it down a rabbit hole.... and call it 'fun'.... which probably makes motorcycles look ultra sensible... but like the hills, its ALL relative....... A-N-D if you want to worry about ANYTHING here and now, these sort of things probably are not all that worth worrying about.

1/ Licence... CBT is NOT a licence its just the first lesson...
2/ GEAR... tends to rain a lot in this country, so gear, especially gear that makes you inclined to go out in the rain is good!
3/ MONEY! Paying for CBT, gear and licences is not cheap and easy.... and this is one of life's most common worries, so may as well get used to it and add it to the list!

BIKES... come some-where... quite a LONG way down the list, and pretty much at the bottom.... you dont need one, and cant use one till you have sorted almost everything above it... so why worry about that first?

Once you get to it... well, CBT lasts 2 years... and if you take heed of getting the real licence, you are likely allowed to get a licence for something other than just a 125 rather sooner, and this choice, your 'first-bike' is just that, its not your last or only choice. Some of us have many more than one motorcycle, and others chop and change them more often than their socks.. it REALLY is not a big deal, or one worth waqsting to much worry on... OTHER THINGS ARE... go deal with them.... sort all else and bike will happen naturally... dont, and you'll be in a mire either way.....

A-N-D when it comes to bike shopping; get OFF the net and out in the real world. There's only something like 150,000 motorcycles of ALL types in the UK to start with. Of them, half are over 125cc, and half of what's left is mopeds and scooters.... the entire 125 population of the UK is only something like 30,000 motorcycles.. half of them, will be generic chinese offerings based on CG or YBR engines.... half of what's left will be a mixed bag of stuff, made up mostly of the bikes bought by the schools of cost conciouse commuters, like YBR's or CBF's and 'stuff'; They only sell something like 1 'premium' 125 for every three entry models, and there are probably three 'premium' models for every entry model, so you are realistically looking at a 'pool' of 1000 motorcycles of a particular model, in the country.... and how many of them will actually be 'for-sale'? Hint, learner bikes tend to be sold on every two years or so, about the length of a CBT cert... so, in any month, you will be lucky to find 10 examples of the bike you think you want, that are actually for sale... and half of them, probably NOT advertised on your smuft-phone, but traded over canteen dining tables, or are on post-0cards in news-agents windows or offered by word of mouth to freinds of freinds of relatives.... the length and bredth of the country....

IF you find one of the actual bikes you want, that is for sale, by whatever means.... how far are you prepared to travel, and how fast can you get there, with cash in your hands, and how big a disappointment are you prepared for if you do, when you see that in the metal, all that loverly chrome is rather tarniched, rusty, or skuffed?

THIS is the reality of buying motorcycles, 125's or not.. they are NOT like a washing machine or nintendo game you can pick up on any high-strreet or get a deal on waiting for the sales....

DO NOT pin your hopes and aspirations on trying to find the 'exact' right bike, by make and model, in virtual reality, and THEN going to try find it... you will likely be looking a very very long time, and STILL be disapointed if you find one.....

Sofd the specs, sort all else that needs sorting, scrape cash you can into a pile, THEN go look at what IS in the real world actually for sale, what you CAN actually get to to do a deal over, after looking at the thing, and deciding it MAYBE worth a punt, and can get seller to hand over the keys for in exchance for whatever cash you have scraped into that pile.....

Then, what the buyers guides suggest, what we 'enthusiasts' may say, matters EFF-ALL... its what you can, in the real world, get your hands on for cash in your pocket, that does actuially WORK... how good it looks, how well it works, is all secondary to that really......

Get off the net... go pound shoe-leather; and the BIKE is really the last thing you need, and last thing you need worry about.... it almost always comes down to a Honbson's choice, and there is never a good one, only degrees of bad ones, which will deminish in significance with the mistakes you will make learning to live with the thing, in the real world, falling off, forgetting to check the oil, discovering you need new brake pads, etc etc etc... its ALL learning, which is why they call them learner-bikes.. and it ALL has cost attached... you will never get a bargain.... so do the best you can, and start by not sweating the small stuff, which, 'the bike', in virual reality of the web, REALLY is.

Best of luck, and have fun... butr dont pin your hopes and aspirations on ideas inspired by web-reviews or adverts!
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[Ste]

3,388 words 18,547 characters

Poor effort.