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open plan garden scheme, whats allowed

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oldpink
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: open plan garden scheme, whats allowed Reply with quote

asking the greater knowledge of the BCF as it seems to be a grey area

council house in a scheme with open planned front gardens

I want to put some decking out my front garden and incorporate a 4ft square garden storage bin into it
before I had a fence around my garden when I first moved in but that meant I had to maintain the garden
the fence got blown down in a bad storm around so I removed it
council then started cutting the grass so I never bothered to replace it

if you look at the obligatory paint diagram
I live in the second house in, first house is a bought house and they have no issue with what I plan
the red line in the pic is the actual boundary line but I allowed them to use my side up to the path so I had no maintenance

they are moving their fence back to their side as they now own the patch on the other side
so I want to have somewhere for my scope mount and a permanent setup for it
and as its south facing its ideal for sitting out in the summer

in the pic the black area will be decked and railings
yellow is the storage bin that will be the same height as the railing
and something along the lines of the attached pic but integrated into the decked area
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not fire a email off to your local council ?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugeye_bob wrote:
Why not fire a email off to your local council ?


The council change their minds depending on who you speak to. For our massive shed, we asked whether we needed permission because of the size, was told no issues, and then when some neighbour moaned, they came round kicking off because we hadn't had permission, despite giving them the name, date and time of the conversation.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick gander around the surrounding streets on Streetview suggests no other council tenant has done anything like that. It's easier if there's a precedent. Any modifications to that front area appear to be by owner-occupiers, and at that point all restrictions appear to be lifted. There's an argument that says "if owners can put up fences and bushes then it negates the whole point of the open plan scheme so we should be able to do what we like" but probably not a legal argument.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a rule of thumb you can erect decking in the front garden as long as the total area of 'stuff' (sheds, decking etc) within your curtilage doesn't exceed 50% of the total available area, and the decking is no higher than 300mm. If your decking is any higher it will be treated as an 'outbuilding' as it encloses a significant volume of air...

Your garden storage bin will be treated as an 'outbuilding' for which you will need planning permission if it is forward of the wall forming the principal elevation (i.e. the front wall of the house).

You do need to check your tennancy agreemet as this may contain restrictive clauses. I you own the house, your deeds may contain a restrictive covenant imposed by the Council when it was first sold.

Unless your Council is flush with cash it won't give you a definitive answer to the planning permission question. You can get one however by applying for a Lawful Development Certificate. The fee for this is currently £103 (half the normal planning fee for works within your curtilage).

My advice (but don't sue if it all goes pair-shaped as this is informal, we have no contract etc etc...) is to do the work then see if anybody complains. If you get a knock on the door from the Enforcement Officer, contact me and I'll sort a retrospective planning application if the Council wants to take it further. Quite often people get letters asking them to remove things but Council's don't follow up with an Enforcement Notice because it isn't expedient to spend public money on minor matters.

Hope this helps!
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
My advice (but don't sue if it all goes pair-shaped as this is informal, we have no contract etc etc...) is to do the work then see if anybody complains. If you get a knock on the door from the Enforcement Officer, contact me and I'll sort a retrospective planning application if the Council wants to take it further. Quite often people get letters asking them to remove things but Council's don't follow up with an Enforcement Notice because it isn't expedient to spend public money on minor matters.

Hope this helps!
that was the plan to build it and see what happens
the neighbor has a wishing well bang in the center of her garden for years that was about 4ft tall
that was before she bought it
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Death is no defence in planning law....
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Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

on an astronomy forum a thread dealing with building a home observatory on person said

"if a building isn't permanently fixed to the ground it won't need planning permission unless it blocks a neighbours light or view or isn't too tall"

if thats the case I can make the "storage bin removable which might even be more desirable now I think about it

the other thought I had was some form of "special circumstances"
when I was doing amateur radio the council went nuts when I erected 2 antenna masts over 12m tall and mounted a 6m antenna poking out my loft
but my Ham license allowed me to do this for experimental work so they backed off
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know where your star-gazing pal got his information from, but he is misinformed. If a structure attains permanence by virtue of it not actually moving (irrespective of whether it can actually move if pushed) then it is treated as a permanent structure. Whether it blocks light or a view isn't a consideration in the question of whether it needs planning permission. Should it need it, then the matter of impact upon a neighbour's 'amenity' is taken into account when determining the application.

Its height in relation to your boundary is something that influences whether planning permission is necessary. The most important thing here however is that any 'outbuilding' in the front garden will need planning permission irrespective of height.

'Special circumstances' are not taken into account when deciding whether planning permission is needed, but may be taken into account when determining an application.

An advantage of making the bin moveable however is that by moving it from place to place within the garden you can deflect an Enforcement Notice if it relates to a specific position. A canny Local Authority will word its Notice to include any location within the front garden however...

I realise it is all semantics, but that is our glorious planning system for you!
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Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 03 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah that would have made it easy

but It may still work in my favor
the reason the bin has to be where it is in this plan is to allow me to see Polaris to allow proper alignment of the mount and scope

But if needed the Bin could be moved back against the front wall of the house
and I can use other methods to align it and make cabling it up for LAN and power far easier


if attached to the front wall I'd have less hassle

so go as planned if they chap the door and say it has to go I can just move everything
or argue my case
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 04 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing to do is to ignore any contact from the Planning Department unless you are served with a formal Notice. Letters warning of action are merely that and have no legal effect. The Council may ask you to remove it or submit a retrospective planning application by letter, but you don't have to do either at this stage.

You may receive a thing called a Planning Contravention Notice. This is an information-gathering tool and you must answer its questions or face a fine. Within your reply you do have the opportunity to argue your case however, and I advise that you do so at this stage if served.

Alternatively the Council could go straight to the Enforcement Notice stage, to which you have the chance to appeal. The sensible thing to do if one of these is served however is to agree with the Council that you will submit a retrospective planning application - Councils will usually wait for the decision before pursuing the matter further.

If you can, don't move the structure at all. After 10 years in the same position with the same use it will become immune from enforcement action, unless that is the Council contact you an ask for its removal within that period.
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Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 05 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

damn may need to change plans Evil or Very Mad
just been offered a deal on this beast and could add another ft to incorporate it or have to mount it when needed
but its worth the hassle but can't be left out as fully loaded its over £3k worth of scope and mount never mind the camera's for it

plus I'm wondering why I bother
the last 3 months I've had the scope out 3 times and its currently snowing Crying or Very sad
like biking Astronomy needs decent weather Rolling Eyes
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I have become comfortably numb

Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR
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