Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Another New Mash on the way, and it's a 600

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:58 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Another New Mash on the way, and it's a 600 Reply with quote

The Mash X-ride is coming soon, by the looks of it.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28575820_909903605801356_1075581572958041902_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c31a9501cdee4217a98e160ef9b5d138&oe=5B5812CB

https://www.facebook.com/MASH.Motors/posts/909905452467838

I'm not overly smitten by this particular bike, however, if they produce a Roadstar version as a 650 (say an XY650), that could be interesting, and it would be a direct competitor for the new Royal Enfield 650's.. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

I've had my XY400 now for nearly 3 years, and it's been a great little bike, survived 3 uk winters, with little sign of corrosion, and it has been totally reliable.
____________________
Current rides :- Hyosung ST7, CFMoto CF650TR, Mash 400 Roadstar & Honley RX3 Venturer (Zhongshen RX3)
Previously owned bikes :- Chituma CTM-125, Jinlun JL250-5, Honda VTX1300, Suzuki GS500, Lifan LF400, Lexmoto Arrow 125, Yamaha XJ600 Diversion,Triumph America, Skyteam ST-125 V-Raptor, Royal Enfield 350 Bullet
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

pepperami
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:26 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly whoever styled that, had been looking at old pictures of the late great Yamaha XT 500 .
If Mash are trying to get a bit of the Yamaha XT 500 success to rub off, then they have big boots to fill.

Looks interesting.
I wonder if it will ever come to our shores?

Hmmm? Mash have a 400, a CF 650, this new one, a 250?, a 125?, could this be the dawn of the Chinese becoming ďproper ď bike manufacturers rather than just churning out commuter ped for the masses?
____________________
I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!


Last edited by pepperami on 10:37 - 30 Apr 2018; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

thx1138
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:37 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monster Mash.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Copycat73
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:12 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a gap in that market .. providing the quality control is there & the price is correct ... it will sell.
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:17 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
there is a gap in that market .. providing the quality control is there & the price is correct ... it will sell.

In the UK? Based on what?

Mash's sales to date have been minuscule and they're running out of steam on the 400s.

https://i.imgur.com/M09m6q1.png

CF Moto 650s sold under the "WK" brand are already a busted flush - bikes are being SORNed faster than they're being sold.

https://i.imgur.com/YgimMcs.png

Joke brand bikes above 125cc just don't sell in the UK in significant numbers.

They won't sell until some marque puts their own money behind their own logo all the way from import, through sales, to support, then crucially buying their own bikes back for more then sweetie money.

Wake me up when it happens, I'm worn out from hearing about bikes that are poised to break the mould and change perceptions.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Copycat73
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:22 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

In the UK? Based on what?


the major japanese manufacturers are not makin 250cc + 4t trail bikes and this xt clone is aimed at that gap .. all be it the 45-65 age group .. the fact that it will have limited off road capability will not matter as it wont be doin much of that any way .. nostalgia .. retro .. whatever its called ...

caveat ... providing the quality control is there & the price is correct ...
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:33 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it that's a twin? Looks quite nice I must admit.

But a competitor to the Enfield 650 Laughing Who the fuck are you kidding. Not yet, in fact not in a month of Sundays.

Copycat says 'Providing the QC is there and the price right'

Yes, maybe, but someone still has to buy it to find if the QC is there and the right price? What's the right price for a Chinese bike? Maybe in a few generations time when a bike is considered a disposable item.

Roger is absolutely right, they won't break through the big bike market in this country until they back up their products properly. Yes, I sound like a broken record but Pass the popcorn
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:51 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine for the 50yr old that liked the old XT's and only does a bit of sunny summer to the pub pose riding that an XT special clone might appeal and be considered.

It'll certainly cost a shit load less cash than making a a 1978 XT500 look like that, and brake as well or be as reliable and rideable on the road.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:40 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
providing the quality control is there & the price is correct ...

Mash had a 400cc "trail bike" in 2016.

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/mash/mash-scrambler

As of the end of 2017, they've sold 1 (one) of them.

Why's that? Is it the quality, or the price?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Copycat73
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:12 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


As of the end of 2017, they've sold 1 (one) of them.

Why's that? Is it the quality, or the price?


Design .. does not look the part ..
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:35 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
Design .. does not look the part ..

OK, so you want a high mudguard, high level exhaust, let's add a bash plate aaaaand...

https://i.imgur.com/EErZXSP.png

https://i.imgur.com/lKJ4Bf3.png

Was it the quality?

Was it the price?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

fireyphoenix1...
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:19 - 30 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WK 400 trail. Aint they OEMed by Shineray. Not exactly a beacon of quality even by Chinese standards.

Benelli have lost the plot as well.Their TNT600 is a rebranded chinese bike built by Qianjiang.
____________________
2014 Aprillia dorsoduro 750 factory.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:43 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

fireyphoenix1989 wrote:
WK 400 trail. Aint they OEMed by Shineray. Not exactly a beacon of quality even by Chinese standards.



Well, my Roadstar ( Shineray XY400), has not given me any cause for concern, at all. Nearly 3 years old now, ridden all year round, yes, including during the winter just gone, complete with it's copious amouts of snow and associated amount of road grit (which around here at least, still hasn't fully washed off the roads). Never let me down, and still doesn't show any discernible signs of corrosion..

fireyphoenix1989 wrote:

Benelli have lost the plot as well.Their TNT600 is a rebranded chinese bike built by Qianjiang.


How have Benelli rebranded a chinese bike? Qianjiang own Benelli, so, it's no more a rebrand than a Ducati is a VW rebrand ..

Now, if you want to look at rebrands .. You should have a closer look at Suzuki & Haojue, including their up and coming GSX-S300, or, as it's really known as, the Haojue HJ300. Or.., perhaps BMW with their rebranded Loncin 650 engines etc.. Or, perhaps Triumph & KTM with their rebranded Bajaj's ( Although Bajaj own's about 50% of KTM, so, perhaps technically not a rebrand) or TVS and BMW, such as TVS RR310 which is almost certain to become the BMW G310RR. I'm sure if you were to do some research you'd find many more instances..
____________________
Current rides :- Hyosung ST7, CFMoto CF650TR, Mash 400 Roadstar & Honley RX3 Venturer (Zhongshen RX3)
Previously owned bikes :- Chituma CTM-125, Jinlun JL250-5, Honda VTX1300, Suzuki GS500, Lifan LF400, Lexmoto Arrow 125, Yamaha XJ600 Diversion,Triumph America, Skyteam ST-125 V-Raptor, Royal Enfield 350 Bullet
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:56 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

fireyphoenix1989 wrote:
WK 400 trail. Aint they OEMed by Shineray. Not exactly a beacon of quality even by Chinese standards.

40 bikes sold in total isn't enough of a sample to tell.

That's rather my point, that in order to build a reputation for quality, you first need to sell some bikes.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

grr666
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:03 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, a full page ad on BCF in exchange for some discount off the daughters 50 will certainly help. Whistle
____________________
Currently enjoying products from Ford, Suzuki and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off. Thumbs Up
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:19 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Still, a full page ad on BCF in exchange for some discount off the daughters 50 will certainly help. Whistle


I wish, alas no, no discount..
____________________
Current rides :- Hyosung ST7, CFMoto CF650TR, Mash 400 Roadstar & Honley RX3 Venturer (Zhongshen RX3)
Previously owned bikes :- Chituma CTM-125, Jinlun JL250-5, Honda VTX1300, Suzuki GS500, Lifan LF400, Lexmoto Arrow 125, Yamaha XJ600 Diversion,Triumph America, Skyteam ST-125 V-Raptor, Royal Enfield 350 Bullet
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Copycat73
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:10 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


Was it the quality?

Was it the price?


bikes are sold on reputation .. as much as anything..
however
33/ 34 units per year ... from 3 ... what you can expect from a fringe manufacturer ...

see how the new model sells ..
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

fireyphoenix1...
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:50 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:

Well, my Roadstar ( Shineray XY400), has not given me any cause for concern, at all. Nearly 3 years old now

Saying that based on your sample size of one.All power to you. Fair play for buying one and glad its worked out well for you.
I have not worked on that model. But i have worked on other models built by shineray and had nothing but issues.Mostly due to daft cost saving measures like dirt cheap fasters or poor material choices.
Not a manufacturer i would turn to or recommend from my own experience with them.The potential is there but they really need to step their game up.

linuxyeti wrote:

How have Benelli rebranded a chinese bike? Qianjiang own Benelli, so, it's no more a rebrand than a Ducati is a VW rebrand ..


I cant tell if serious.... owning a company and selling re branded models built by an entirely different company are two totally different things.
Benelli had nothing at all to do with the Qianjiangs development, they just slapped the Benelli name on it to shift a few units to the unsuspecting buyer,

Lets look at your own analogy. Would you buy a VW Hypermotard ? No you wouldnt because VW are a car manufacturer.Would you buy a Ducati Golf ? No you would not because Ducati are known for producing exotic bikes with questionable practicality / reliability.

linuxyeti wrote:


Now, if you want to look at rebrands .. You should have a closer look at Suzuki & Haojue, including their up and coming GSX-S300, or, as it's really known as, the Haojue HJ300. Or.., perhaps BMW with their rebranded Loncin 650 engines etc.. Or, perhaps Triumph & KTM with their rebranded Bajaj's ( Although Bajaj own's about 50% of KTM, so, perhaps technically not a rebrand) or TVS and BMW, such as TVS RR310 which is almost certain to become the BMW G310RR. I'm sure if you were to do some research you'd find many more instances..


Im not even surprised that Suzuki are now re branding Chinese models.Its far from a company that i have ever had much faith in. I have 9 Suzuki`s and everyone of them felt cheap, and at some point every one of them broke down on me.
From bandits that would not run the rain to my GS500 locking its engine up at 80 because the rotor magnets were not epoxied in properly.They are struggling as a company and have been for years, i can remember when i got into road riding they were practically giving SV650s away as they just couldn't shift them.Buying one netted you free helmet leathers license and £500 cashback.I nearly bought one myself.

Might want to do a bit more research yourself. The "loncin" built 650 is a bmw engine that they are producing under licensee.The loncin 650 is a Chinese domestic market bike that they are exporting.
Not as you implied BMW using a Loncin engine.Same as most of the 125s have a very solid honha CG or Suzuki EN based engine. Its everything around the engine that tends to cause issues.

I have zero issues with buying bikes from major manufacturer who produce stuff in China, so long as the quality control is there then i am happy. The issue with Chinese domestic market stuff is its usually built to a budget not a specification.

Looking at the bikes you mentioned, there is the major issue with most of them.They are all being built as domestic market models with no intention of selling here.That screams a lack of confidence in them to me as European customers usually demand quality.

As for KTM, i like KTM.I want a 1290R but i wont buy one until i have a garage and room to store a second and totally dependable bike, i think of them as in the space Ducati were in during the 90s.

The only models i know for certain to be Bajaj built in india are the 390s and they dont have a stellar reputation. The RC390 i worked on was clearly built as an entry budget bike. The build was solid but it wasnt to the quality i expected from other KTMs i have worked such as the 990 and multiple EXCs.

My own machine is an Aprillia and i was very wary of it at first as my last experience of one was a friends that bricked its ECU with an £800 repair bill.
I spoke to all the mechanics i know and asked them about my model. I only bought it as its a shiver derived bike with a rock solid engine and decent spec components (sachs suspension & Brembo brakes).

As i said above, the potential is there in many cases. They just need to put the quality control there as well. Until they do, then they wont build the reputation needed for mass sales.
Thumbs Up
____________________
2014 Aprillia dorsoduro 750 factory.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:43 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
bikes are sold on reputation .. as much as anything.

Very true. But you have to get some bikes out there in order to build one.

If off-brand marques want to sell in the UK, they could start by offering 3 (or 5 or 7...) year manufacturer/importer warranties, that are actually worth the paper they're written on. And not Lexmoto stylee ones that require a dealer service every 1000km, or which count everything as consumable including the valvetrain, as per one of the sodded off claims we heard about for a WK 650.


Copycat73 wrote:
see how the new model sells ..

It won't. Not in any significant numbers. Even the best selling Chinese 250+ bikes just barely make it past 100 units.

This one won't change that, because the problem isn't primarily with the bikes.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

M.C
Super Spammer



Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:45 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

fireyphoenix1989 wrote:
The only models i know for certain to be Bajaj built in india are the 390s and they dont have a stellar reputation. The RC390 i worked on was clearly built as an entry budget bike. The build was solid but it wasnt to the quality i expected from other KTMs i have worked such as the 990 and multiple EXCs.

AFAIK it's all the smaller KTMs, 390 and below, and all are meant to have build/reliability issues, even for a manufacturer not famed for reliability.

Honda seem to be the worst culprit for slapping a badge on a poorly built bike ATM.
____________________
Street Trip'
Yamaha MT-03 (660)
Honda XR-125L
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

rpsmith79
Crazy Courier



Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:48 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
they could start by offering 3 (or 5 or 7...) year manufacturer/importer warranties, that are actually worth the paper they're written on.


Indeed, you only need to look at the like of Kia/Hyundai and their 5/7 year warranties

They have done wonders in the last few years, and have become big players in the car market, from the joke brands they were 10-15 years ago
____________________
Current Bike: Honda CG125 ES4 // Honda CB600FS Hornet
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

fireyphoenix1...
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:07 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

Honda seem to be the worst culprit for slapping a badge on a poorly built bike ATM.



In the small machines i agree. The CBF 125s were some one the worst built hondas i have seen. Compare one to a Varadero and its like they are from two different manufacturers.

The new CBR250RR is crap and does not deserve the name either.
I would give my right bollock for a mint 250RR babyblade tho micro rocket haha.

Its a shame, the tech has come on so far but you just cant seem to get decent performance small cc bikes anymore.Everything modern i have ridden in the small ccs was shit.
Ninja 250 RC390 R25 CBR500R MT03 UGH.. They are all basically commuter get me to work lumps.
Compare them to RVF400R ZXR400 DRZ400SM FZR400RR not even counting the smokers like the RS250 and the KR1S..
I feel sorry for lads on A2 that want to buy new.
____________________
2014 Aprillia dorsoduro 750 factory.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Copycat73
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:26 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Very true. But you have to get some bikes out there in order to build one.
If off-brand marques want to sell in the UK, they could start by offering 3 (or 5 or 7...) year manufacturer/importer warranties, that are actually worth the paper they're written on. And not Lexmoto stylee ones that require a dealer service every 1000km, or which count everything as consumable including the valvetrain, as per one of the sodded off claims we heard about for a WK 650.

well e-mail and tell them .. nowt much is gonna happen otherwise.


Rogerborg wrote:

It won't. Not in any significant numbers. Even the best selling Chinese 250+ bikes just barely make it past 100 units.

This one won't change that, because the problem isn't primarily with the bikes.


if they sell any where near that number i suspect they will be ecstatic ...
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:20 - 01 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Phoenix that current A2 bikes are crap in many ways. But if they are or were solid and reliable enough you have to remember that young up coming bikers don't have any history or heritage of old small scalpel bikes and bike buying habits have changed.

A CBR500 might be enough CBR style and substance for a newbie that doesn't want to go full Fireblade or be a track day nutter. If they want to get to college or work and have a slightly funky flash looking tool for the job with modern electronic connectivity type features they might be well happy with a CBR500 etc.

Oh and Kawasaki is annoying, as that Ninja 250 engine was making 45bhp first time out in the 80's and by going to 300cc and keeping the original state of tune it should have been a 50bhp+ motor as a 300. Put that in a modern day alloy KR1S chassis, and you'd have had a very different bike.

Yamaha is the only Japanese manufacturer that of late has moderately impressed with their effort in making fun and exciting bikes especially in middle weight and smaller cc classes. If they had the build quality and finish/fastener quality of an early 90's Honda they'd be fucking unbeatable.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:29 - 02 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I agree with Phoenix that current A2 bikes are crap in many ways. But if they are or were solid and reliable enough you have to remember that young up coming bikers don't have any history or heritage of old small scalpel bikes and bike buying habits have changed.

A CBR500 might be enough CBR style and substance for a newbie that doesn't want to go full Fireblade or be a track day nutter. If they want to get to college or work and have a slightly funky flash looking tool for the job with modern electronic connectivity type features they might be well happy with a CBR500 etc.

Oh and Kawasaki is annoying, as that Ninja 250 engine was making 45bhp first time out in the 80's and by going to 300cc and keeping the original state of tune it should have been a 50bhp+ motor as a 300. Put that in a modern day alloy KR1S chassis, and you'd have had a very different bike.

Yamaha is the only Japanese manufacturer that of late has moderately impressed with their effort in making fun and exciting bikes especially in middle weight and smaller cc classes. If they had the build quality and finish/fastener quality of an early 90's Honda they'd be fucking unbeatable.



That's not something you will ever see again. Too many bean counters running every company now.

Stainless? no chance when plastic/mild steel will do and out last the guarantee
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: discovery (www) - Page Generation Time: 1.39 Sec - Server Load: 3.58 - MySQL Queries: 16 - CDN Objects: 52 - Page Size: 148.4 Kb