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MCN
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PostPosted: 03:52 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: House of Fraser to close stores. Reply with quote

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/hamleys-owner-to-take-control-of-house-of-fraser-and-shut-stores/ar-AAwDKoP?ocid=spartandhp

The rot continues.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I walked around a shopping centre in Bristol yesterday afternoon (The Galleries) and it was pretty much deserted.
If it was at 10% capacity I'd have ben surprised. The only places with customers were the two pound shops and a
few eateries, the rest was deserted. They must make so much £££ out of the always chock full and expensive car park
that it keeps the whole place afloat. There's a real shortage of parking in the centre so they can make the prices up as
they go along. Always a half dozen units in the centre closed down with a few other places having closing down sales.

Retailers have had 15 years to up their game so they can compete with giants like Amazon and ebay, but if anything
the staff in the majority of these places are surlier and more useless than ever. So why would anyone pay a premium
over internet shopping prices just to be faced by an ill mannered, poe faced idiot who has sod all interest in what they are
selling. My local B&Q Traderpoint is mainly staffed by overly made up females almost as orange as their uniforms. But ask
them a question, any question and you're left wondering "Why are you here?" because they haven't the faintest idea
what anything is, what it does or where in the store to find it because they've never so much as bought a box of screws
or a tube of Gripfill in their lives. I bet they know ALL about iphones, make up, hair and social media though.

You only get something resembling a bit of customer service in an independent shop, where the person behind
the counter likely has a large stake in the firm. But internet shopping has an achilles heel. Returns. So many places
charge you to send stuff back and there's the hassle of repackaging and going out to post it which invariably means
queueing up at the Ghost Office. Nothing hassle free about that and it still puts a lot of people off of buying online.

If the High Street would just act like it's grateful for the custom and employ appropriate, enthused staff and give
them some training in being pro actively helpful and knowledgeable. Maybe bring prices in line with online and pay
them a decent wage then maybe retail wouldn't be regarded as a temporary drone job. Perhaps not quite as
many people would be saying balls to shopping in person. And perhaps those working in retail would do it with some
effort and pride. Its no surprise the high street is going under, the attitude they are doing you a favour by half
heartedly serving you is widespread and by not fixing that, management are just as culpable.

TL;DR It's their own fault.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 07:25 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not surprised.

I know I'm not your typical shopper but I haven't been in a department store for years. Even wifie hardly goes in them nowadays.

Town centres will soon be boarded up graffiti ridden run down cess pits with just charity shops, and cash converters.

It doesn't help when the owners are Chinese and despite the rhetoric will just asset strip the lot.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
employ appropriate, enthused staff and give them some training in being pro actively helpful and knowledgeable. Maybe bring prices in line with online and pay them a decent wage

With what money? Given how much goes on exorbitant rent and rates, and paying wamen to not work, brick businesses with actual staff can never compete with drop shippers, bedroom sellers, and those prepared to exploit and discard 0-hour drones.

I mentioned previously that folk up here can't even give away commercial properties since they still attract rates even when they're empty. Owners have taken to knocking roofs off, and some of them just "catch fire", but now Plain Commie is bringing us a land tax so that just owning the soil under your derelict building sees you liable.

The future of retail is anonymous, faceless, and off-the-books.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is self-fulfilling.

Here in our small town in Wales we have a small high street with numerous independent shops, selling hippy food, books, gifts, carpets(!) and things made of wool. There's a debate going on locally about the struggles the shop keepers have surviving, countered by the criticism of the staff in these shops being surly and unwelcoming.

I suppose it's hard to be cheery when you don't know if you're going to be in business next week and some Gortex-clad tourist spends 20 minutes touching everything in your shop before buying a single picture postcard.

As for the locals, we all go to the giant Tesco & Alddi on the edge of town Shocked .
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winz
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PostPosted: 11:04 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
I walked around a shopping centre in Bristol yesterday afternoon (The Galleries)


You poor, poor bastard.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 11:09 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you work in retail on minimum wage then unless you are the owner or it's a 'hobby' you are a failure...
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LustyLew
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Street shopping is shit.

Every other shop is a chain coffee shop, betting shop or charity shop. That leaves Boots, WH Smith (who seem to just sell sweets and newspapers) and Ahmeds Chicken Shops. Then when you're dragging your miserable ass between shops "Beeeeeg Eeeeeesue misses geeza?!" from some third world pikey, or "Hello sir! Do you have 5 minutes to chat about <insert latest dying fad animal>?" CUNT OFF!

Why on earth would you want to goto that when the big out of town shopping centres have better parking, are under cover and usually have a cinema etc on site.

Last time I went into Maplin I got greeted (harassed) but a spotty 16y/o stinking of BO. That and their shelves were so empty. I know they had troubles before administration with securing stock, but fuck me, use a brain cell, re-dress your shelves if half of it is empty!! No wonder people shop online.

If you want my money, you have to make me want to spend it. That's why places like John Lewis do well.
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Tierbirdy
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loathe having to go to the high street at the best of time, it takes 40 minutes to find somewhere to park because the small local carpark is rammed full and charges £18 a minute to park.

Then I have to, ugh, interact with other humans. Walking down the street youre harassed by beggars, some pikey is trying to sell you the big issue, Save the Narwhals want you to sign up for a £15 a month direct debit ("its just the price of a coffee once a week! Would you really miss it?"), I finally get to the shop I want and its full of Little Old Doris pushing her cart around in a zombie-like state of dementia confusion by all the bright lights and these newfangled grams & kilos, and when did we stop using shillings? Or Charmaine is stood at the checkout blocking everyone demanding to see the manager because her fake tan cost £2 and it clearly said £1.99 on the label whilst her 7 kids scream the place down. Then you finally get what you want and go to pay, and find out it costs 7x what it did online but you wanted it today.

Banks are even worse, I go to pay in a cheque or some cash, and have to wait in line for 3 weeks because theyve gotten rid of all the actual humans (except the Business Banking desk which us peasants arent allowed to use) and replaced them with those automated machines - which actually work great... but everyone over the age of 40 is incapable of using them because its witchcraft to them. So yet again Doris, Ethel and Bertie who want to check the balance on all of their 8 different accounts (not actually withdraw any money mind you, just want to see the balance) take 14 hours to figure out how to use it.


You get back to your car, feeling like you've died of old age, and find some Dindu Nuffin has smashed your window and had a go through your glove box because their might have been something valuable in it. And to top it all off the local Nazi has given you a parking ticket because despite paying £580 to park for half an hour, you stayed for 32 minutes.

Or I can stay at home, get next day delivery on Amazon Prime for a fraction of the price and do all my shopping at my leisure in my pants vegging out in front of my PC with a cuppa in one hand and scratching by balls with the other. Bliss.

Fuck the high street, they had it coming.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

winz wrote:
grr666 wrote:
I walked around a shopping centre in Bristol yesterday afternoon (The Galleries)


You poor, poor bastard.

Mall of the Damned. And to be fair, I was only there for the parking too. I spent £2 to get out of the place and that's it.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

HoF used to be where you'd go for some top quality clobber or if you wanted a dress shirt or similar. One step down from bespoke.

Last time I went in one a couple of years back, it pretty much exclusively catered for football casuals. A&F/Fred Perry etc.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
I walked around a shopping centre in Bristol yesterday afternoon (The Galleries) and it was pretty much deserted.
If it was at 10% capacity I'd have ben surprised. The only places with customers were the two pound shops and a
few eateries, the rest was deserted. They must make so much £££ out of the always chock full and expensive car park
that it keeps the whole place afloat. There's a real shortage of parking in the centre so they can make the prices up as
they go along. Always a half dozen units in the centre closed down with a few other places having closing down sales.

Retailers have had 15 years to up their game so they can compete with giants like Amazon and ebay, but if anything
the staff in the majority of these places are surlier and more useless than ever. So why would anyone pay a premium
over internet shopping prices just to be faced by an ill mannered, poe faced idiot who has sod all interest in what they are
selling. My local B&Q Traderpoint is mainly staffed by overly made up females almost as orange as their uniforms. But ask
them a question, any question and you're left wondering "Why are you here?" because they haven't the faintest idea
what anything is, what it does or where in the store to find it because they've never so much as bought a box of screws
or a tube of Gripfill in their lives. I bet they know ALL about iphones, make up, hair and social media though.

You only get something resembling a bit of customer service in an independent shop, where the person behind
the counter likely has a large stake in the firm. But internet shopping has an achilles heel. Returns. So many places
charge you to send stuff back and there's the hassle of repackaging and going out to post it which invariably means
queueing up at the Ghost Office. Nothing hassle free about that and it still puts a lot of people off of buying online.

If the High Street would just act like it's grateful for the custom and employ appropriate, enthused staff and give
them some training in being pro actively helpful and knowledgeable. Maybe bring prices in line with online and pay
them a decent wage then maybe retail wouldn't be regarded as a temporary drone job. Perhaps not quite as
many people would be saying balls to shopping in person. And perhaps those working in retail would do it with some
effort and pride. Its no surprise the high street is going under, the attitude they are doing you a favour by half
heartedly serving you is widespread and by not fixing that, management are just as culpable.

TL;DR It's their own fault.


We have Goldings, family owned irinmongers and hardware store been going 150years, all the staff appear to be over 50, never hesitate to help, always know where everything is, all the other shops are pretty much hopeless though.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our version of that, Pollards, folded this year. Crying or Very sad

It was a brilliant place to go get that elusive silly pitch threaded bolt you couldn't find anywhere else but I suppose that sort of thing couldn't keep it going in the face of Bunnings, B&Q and the like.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

They want profit not performance.
They do not hire good people and do not train the rubbish they hire to 'serve' the customer.

It is amazing whenever you are served by a store person who obviously knows how to do their job well.
The best way to turn a customer away is to be shitty.
There are some who are only still behind the counter because the market requires a touchy-feely experience.
Bike clothing is a market that is still nailed to need g a shop one can visit. The gear has to fit properly or the protection offered is not 100%
And I have visited many bike gear shops and will never go back. Bikers will even go out of the way a bit to find a good shop but scary staff stops sales.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Visited a couple of towns in Suffolk that were quite different to the paint-by-numbers towns in the south.

Big chains / franchises were not as well represented, there were more independent shops.

And the towns were busy, as were the shops.


My best guess is business rates were a lot cheaper and the council may have been more forceful about the types of business they allowed.
But I have no facts.

All I do know is they were much nicer places to be.

Southwold and Aldeburgh to name two.
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 03 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a Self Employed Shop owner that 12 years ago bought into a franchise and after 2 years of rapid growth I have endured an accelerating decline. The last 3 months have seen the steepest decline ever (like for like sales in the last 5 weeks are a quarter of the same period the previous year). I am now so far under my break even point that it isn't possible to continue and I have today started searching for a job.

When I read the comments above about surely rude staff, poor experiences, high parking charges - I agree with all of it.

As a shop owner I try to influence what I can but shopping centres are all owned by investment company's and/or banks - they require a rate of return and upwards only rent increases, same with business rates - it is only thanks to being in an area that is declining that my rates bill has been revalued down but this should of happened years ago. Wages, Electric, Tax, Pension Contributions all go up each year but the customer wants to spend less.

I am in video games which has its own problems, those combined with declining footfall generally and the move generally to internet shopping have trashed my business. I moved onto Amazon 5 years ago - it used to be a profitable outlet but fee increases last year mean in the video games category a fee of 18% of revenue inc postage + closing fee (50p at least) means that if I buy in a new release from a wholesaler I have to retail it on Amazon at RRP to make nothing - New video game releases now typically offer a retailer 19-20% margin and games consoles less than 6% so it just isn't worth stocking them. Post brexit credit insurers are removing credit limits on people - mine all went last year and so trading terms are cash up front.

It's hard to be cheerful when your watching over £100,000 of investment and 12 years work crumble.

Today I suspended being a prime seller on Amazon because postage costs came to almost 50% of the revenue received and sales on Amazon have also halved despite me offering prime shipping. All of Amazons UK sales revenue and fee revenue from UK sellers is reported in Luxembourg so the UK receives no tax from it.

The end is coming. Be careful what you wish for.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:34 - 04 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stephen_o wrote:
I am in video games which has its own problems, those combined with declining footfall generally and the move generally to internet shopping have trashed my business.

Its been that way for ages though. Special reserve, Zavvi, Game all went bust even though the latter two were saved. Play.com also went.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 04 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Download technology is killing firms like this in very recent times but internet shopping started the process of reducing
footfall. Same as all the CD emporiums, and video rental places. I worked for Blockbuster Video when I was 18.
Around the same time, if you wanted a bit of an unusual non mainstream CD (I'm into rock and metal so that was
common for me) you'd have to go to a specialist place. Adrians in Wickford was one that saw me leafing through
the imports and rarities on a regular basis after a drive or train ride to do so. I was often at Piccadilly Circus in HMV
or Tower Records in the A&R section clicking my way through the CD's for literally hours hunting for that illusive thing
my mates didn't already have. Finding it being somewhat of a badge of honour among my peers. I also used
to mail order from Alices Records, They used to do a postal mailout/fanzine every couple of months with reviews
and you would phone them up and pay by card, then they would post things out to you.You could pre order unreleased stuff too.

I'm not a downloader, never have been, never will be. I like having the physical item, reading the sleeve notes and
shout outs (I've been mentioned on a couple having a couple of mates in the music business) I like the artwork too
and reading the lyrics and stuff But now to get them, even the rare stuff I push a few buttons and I can buy my
CD's from halfway round the world from some dude with no premises to upkeep or rates to pay. Certainly saves me
some legwork, I've managed to obtain stuff that eluded me for years despite hours and even days of hunting for them.
Convenience is convenient.

Longer term, I can see the high streets ending up as housing as we keep bringing people in ad-nauseum when we already
are low on housing. It will only take a slight change in planning laws designating commercial properties as suitable for
residential and there will be a whirlwind of activity changing High streets into homes.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 04 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:


Longer term, I can see the high streets ending up as housing as we keep bringing people in ad-nauseum when we already
are low on housing. It will only take a slight change in planning laws designating commercial properties as suitable for
residential and there will be a whirlwind of activity changing High streets into ghettos.


Which is what it will end up being. Mega city 0.5, build micro apartments, stack them in with no facilities around? An expensive corner shop where they will be forced to go if they haven't got a car, which they won't have because they can't afford the parking fees charged, let alone the cost of a vehicle.

Welcome to the wonderful future of what was once a green and pleasant land. Evil or Very Mad
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Musketeer
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 04 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO House of Fraser, John Lewis, Waitrose and so on.. those are the retailers that are just too expensive for members of working class like myself.

Me and wife switched mainly to online shopping and we do food shopping in Lidl, buy clothes in Primark these days.. We are getting only £45k/year.. we no longer can afford to pay 'premium' price.

Personally even if House of Fraser disappears it won't bother me at all.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 04 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musketeer wrote:
IMHO House of Fraser, John Lewis, Waitrose and so on.. those are the retailers that are just too expensive for members of working class like myself.

Me and wife switched mainly to online shopping and we do food shopping in Lidl, buy clothes in Primark these days.. We are getting only £45k/year.. we no longer can afford to pay 'premium' price.

Personally even if House of Fraser disappears it won't bother me at all.


Are you on a troll? That's not working class wages. Working class wages is in the £15000- £20000 a year. Minimum wage jockeys.

The average wage in UK is....

Average weekly earnings rose to £528 in April 2015, up 1.8 per cent from £518 in 2014 - or 1.9 per cent when adjusted for inflation, the first rise since 2008. The Office for National Statistics' annual hours and earnings survey showed the median salary for full-time employees rose 1.6 per cent to £27,600 in April.

You are nigh on double that.
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Musketeer
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 04 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude... both of us together £45k / year (household income)

Not £45k + £45k
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 05:58 - 05 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to bring up China so soon again, in another thread, but there's something to be said for the protection and anti-monopoly laws they have over here.

Small businesses thrive because big businesses are not allowed to get too big. In fact, big chains are usually more expensive than local places, so the whole situation is in reverse. People here have more incentive to shop local, and only the wealthier lardy darr folk go to the superstores.

This is nothing to do with small businesses playing a better game compared to those in the UK, and everything to do with government intervention and protective measures for 'the greater good'. The 'too free' market model that has crept up in the west, where ultra sized chains are allowed to dominate and are even lauded as great examples of success to be admired, is not a good one.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 08:14 - 05 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The economies of scale allowed big stores to run extortion racketeering for decades.
The internet is just a bigger player.
The same extortion goes on.

One must be careful with a business model in a specialised field things change much faster these days than they did 20 years ago. But the signs were always there.

The corner shops run by Asians prove the point.
Do not just sell bread and newspapers and fags.
Sell what people want.

I have shopped in supermarkets all over UK. The same chains stock depending on local tastes and expenditure. Poor places have less choice.

Fraser's is a dear hole anyway. They survive on designer goods and more up market stuff. People buy posh stuff when they have money.

I think the decline started in the 70s.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 08:36 - 05 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:


The corner shops run by Asians prove the point.
Do not just sell bread and newspapers and fags.
Sell what people want.
.


Illegal under the counter booze and fags. Thumbs Up
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