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Continuing insurance policies for vehicles no longer owned

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Fred3606
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 11 May 2018    Post subject: Continuing insurance policies for vehicles no longer owned Reply with quote

Hi all,
I am looking to sell my 125 soon and will be able to claim back £19 from insurance now but this gets lower the longer I leave it.
Is it legal/allowed to leave the policy running despite selling the bike as the NCB is worth significantly more to me?
Any knowledge is appreciated
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 11 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if the current owner quadraspazzes a bus stop full of kids and they have no insurance of their own, you're happy taking the hit?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:17 - 11 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long left to run on the policy? It isn't a good idea for the reason Shaggy highlights. There was a story of someone who sold their 125, the new owner didn't take out insurance, they hit someone and the previous owners insurer (being liable as there was a policy on the bike) pursued him for 20k iirc. He had a month left to run on his policy and wanted his NCB like you.
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Maimboy
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 11 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can take the bike off cover but 'park' the policy - I'm doing that on a car at the moment, just needed to call the broker. Previously I'd sold a car one evening and the muppet crashed it on his way home, which caused me some bother I could have done without.
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 11 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask about "suspending" the policy - it depends on whether they will give you the extra years no claims bonus or a credit against the renewal premium or neither or both.
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Fred3606
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PostPosted: 01:32 - 12 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help,
I'll have a look into parking/suspending the policy
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Ste
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PostPosted: 02:37 - 12 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long is left on the policy?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 12 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you decide to chance your arm, I'd get proof of postage for an empty envelope sent to your broker's address.

You did so tell them to cancel the policy.

It is properly risky though, as you're trusting another 125 owner, and you know what that sort's like.
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 12 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a third way which was practised by a few unscrupulous brokers when I was doing this - principally to try and get some cash back from an insurance company when the customer had defaulted on the premiums and the broker had cancelled cover to the customer but was left high and dry as far as the insurance company was concerned (the olden days where the broker allowed the customer to pay them in instalments on a gentlemans agreement or payment card ) not the current practice of signing you up for a loan!

however it has been complicated by various databases but essentially...find a lower cc lower group motorbike than the one you have sold which is scrap sorn or unlikely to hit the road in your time left on the policy - change your insurance to that.

You may get a small return of premium although admin fees can eat into or reverse that these days and you will get the ncb at the end of the policy.

This information is offered purely as something that some people may have done in the past and is as such without prejudice.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 14 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
So if the current owner quadraspazzes a bus stop full of kids and they have no insurance of their own, you're happy taking the hit?


Why should they take the hit? Is this the result of yet more curious rulings from the courts?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 14 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
So if the current owner quadraspazzes a bus stop full of kids and they have no insurance of their own, you're happy taking the hit?


Why should they take the hit? Is this the result of yet more curious rulings from the courts?

I think it's just one of the many ways the law f**ks over those doing the right thing, and protects those who ignore it. I still don't fully get it, I thought with our system it's the individual (not the vehicle) that's insured.
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Octapode
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 14 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Jmoan wrote:
Why should they take the hit? Is this the result of yet more curious rulings from the courts?

I think it's just one of the many ways the law f**ks over those doing the right thing, and protects those who ignore it. I still don't fully get it, I thought with our system it's the individual (not the vehicle) that's insured.


It's supposed to be the combination of individual and vehicle unless you have a specific term in the insurance for others riding/driving your vehicle, I thought. That's why they do short term test ride insurance, for example. That's proper fucked if you can get done for, effectively, being insured to ride someone else's vehicle.
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 14 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the event of a claim insurance is not proof of ownership, ownerships proof is V5 in same name as insurance and receipt for purchase.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 14 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m pretty sure you can only insure something which you have a financial or personal interest in, insurable interest is the phrase, once you no longer own the bike, you have No insurance interest in it, you can insure something that you don't own, but only if you have a financial interest, ie you can insure your spouse, or business partner, but if you have sold the bike then no.

You would be best to ask them to park it as said above.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:50 - 15 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
So if the current owner quadraspazzes a bus stop full of kids and they have no insurance of their own, you're happy taking the hit?


Why should they take the hit? Is this the result of yet more curious rulings from the courts?


It it not to fcuk the insured over.

It is because there are people uninsured who cannot pay for damage they cause.

Someone has to pay so the current insurance on the vehicle is used.

Think of it as an incentive to look after your shit. Smile
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Ste
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PostPosted: 00:53 - 15 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stephen_o wrote:
ownerships proof is V5 in same name as insurance and receipt for purchase.

The V5 which says "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP" on the front page? Wink
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:54 - 15 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
stephen_o wrote:
ownerships proof is V5 in same name as insurance and receipt for purchase.

The V5 which says "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP" on the front page? Wink


Yes but if one 'thinks' it is proof of ownership will that not count?

Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 15 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
So if the current owner quadraspazzes a bus stop full of kids and they have no insurance of their own, you're happy taking the hit?

Why should they take the hit? Is this the result of yet more curious rulings from the courts?

Andrew Dalton wrote:
When you sell a bike on make sure you cancel your insurance, otherwise nasty things can happen…

Paul Duffy’s horrendous problems with selling his bike to an uninsured rider have been all over the internet. Fast Bikes covered this issue in 2013, but the importance of cancelling your insurance when you sell your bike is well worth revisiting.

According to press reports, a Scottish biker, Mr Duffy, sold his Kawasaki Ninja on 13th August 2014 to a man called James Bryson. Mr Duffy did not cancel his insurance with his insurance company. His brokers are MCE.

Unknown to Mr Duffy, Mr Bryson was reported to be on a driving ban. He collided with a Toyota Yaris on the 20th of August, and Mr Bryson died in that collision. Mr Duffy has been told by his insurers that he is ‘liable for the costs of the crash’.

This story has generated a storm of criticism for MCE and some well placed sympathy for Mr Duffy. The bike forums have been full of well meaning ‘advice’ for Mr Duffy and a well placed sense of outrage that this man who sold his bike in good faith could lose everything in a bankruptcy.
A solicitors view on insurance

I am not an insurer. I am an independent Solicitor. I have no links with MCE or any other insurer – nor does my firm. What I set out below is the law, which I think is wrongly pitched in favour of insurers, but what the law is and what it should be is often not the same thing…
Insurance and the law

Once Mr Duffy sold the motorcycle, by signing over the V5 and giving the buyers the key he had, as a matter of law, no insurable interest in the motorbike anymore. The Court of Appeal, in the case Dodson v. PH Dodson Insurance Services [2001] made it binding law that an insurer has to meet any claim where the insured has kept a live policy of insurance. In that case the point was the insured had sold his vehicle and kept his policy live,which allowed him to drive other vehicles not owned by him. The Court of Appeal upheld that even though he had sold the insured vehicle,the policy still covered him for driving other vehicles not owned by him. The sale of your vehicle does not end the policy of insurance.

The heart of Mr Duffy’s problem is statute law, and in particular Section 151 of the 1988 Road Traffic Act. It says, in summary, that if a policy of insurance exists for a vehicle (as it did for Mr Duffy’s sold motorcycle), then the policy, as a matter of law set by Parliament, covers any person who might be using that vehicle, with or without the authority of the insured. The insurance company must meet the costs of any claim.

Mr Duffy’s insurers will not have to meet any losses arising from the uninsured rider’s death, but the losses of the Toyota driver is a cost they will have to meet. Because Mr Duffy had a duty to cancel his insurance once he disposed of the vehicle, he will be in breach of his contract of insurance and his insurers will be able to at least start to try to recover their costs from Mr Duffy.

The same law applies if the bike is stolen and the thief causes a loss, but because there is no breach of policy the insurer would not have been able to come after the insured. Selling or lending your bike carries a really high risk as it is on your insurance.

Whether or not the insurers do come after Mr Duffy is a matter of economics and public relations. I answered a similar query in September of 2013. If Mr Duffy has significant assets, I would expect his insurers to come after him for them. If, for example, he does not own his own home, and I understand that he is a full time carer for his unwell wife, and therefore is unlikely to have significant sums with which to meet any award, they may simply let it go.

I wish Mr Duffy the very best of luck. It is a horrible position he finds himself in, where he is completely unsupported by the law. I have had to deal with around half a dozen cases like this in my 20 years plus practice. Only in one did the seller of the vehicle actually get the judgment enforced against him. In the rest, it was not usually worth suing the seller or the insurers were merciful.

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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 15 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

"V5 is not proof of ownership" Correct except for where it suits them.

Proof of ownership is "payment of" hence why I said V5 and a receipt of purchase - that is the requirements of an insurance company.

Insurable interest is the correct phrase. If you have an interest in the item because you bought it or you stand to lose financialy if it is damaged or total loss or you use it then you can insure it.

The reason V5 documents now have the statement on about not being proof of ownership is that the legal title of the goods - i.e absolute ownership is vested in the body that has paid for the item i.e a finance company on hp, or these common pcp deals where you are renting the car or bike.
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 15 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stephen_o wrote:
"The reason V5 documents now have the statement on about not being proof of ownership


I guess it depends what you mean by "now", but it's been on there as long as I can remember. It's more prominent now, but it's always been there.
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Fred3606
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 22 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the further responses
didn't realise it had kept going
Cheers Thumbs Up
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