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Duel sport - WR450F (will it be cr@p on tarmac?)

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Phil D
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 17 May 2018    Post subject: Duel sport - WR450F (will it be cr@p on tarmac?) Reply with quote

Hi guys im after a duel sport for some green laning, countryside riding (road) and possible an enduro event 2 in the future (more for fun rather than winning i suppose). Also may be doing a 110mile round trip maybe twice a month (a roads) to ride with others (unfortunately don't have a van/trailer currently).

Been looking at a few bikes, top of the list is a plated DRZ400e or a S model but prices just seem over inflated to me, probably because its still a desirable bike.

Ive also looked at the CCM 404 but these don't come up often and i have a little bit of a worry about build quality on non engine parts.

Lots of CRF250L's for sale which would fit the bill but feel like it might not be enough power for me (im 100kg), lots available and at a reasonable price. A WR250R or X would be perfect but they are like hens teeth in the UK.

A WR250F is too highly strung for road use. Ive rebuild 4T engines before but have too many projects on currently to warrant something thats going to need too much maintenance. This has brought me to the WR450F, my thinking is the bigger bore engine will cope to an on road use better whilst being lighter than the DRZ and having plenty of power for off road shenanigans. Theres also lots available that are already road registered.

For any significant on road use the plan would be to get a second set of supermoto wheels to stop me chewing through knobblies, probable have a fiddle with the gearing too. Im not about to rush into a decision though (mostly because i need to wait to be paid this month first Very Happy ) but has anyone got any experience running a WR450F in supermoto guise? pros/cons?
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Phil D
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 18 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Test rode a CRF250L today, found it very gutless and boring (25bhp).
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garth
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 18 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're looking at 600 mile max oil changes on a 450F.

My 450 (crf450 copy) is absolutely useless on the road and I change the oil every other ride (100 miles ish)

Wouldn't recommend.

XR?
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Phil D
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 18 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

garth wrote:
You're looking at 600 mile max oil changes on a 450F.

My 450 (crf450 copy) is absolutely useless on the road and I change the oil every other ride (100 miles ish)

Wouldn't recommend.

XR?


Not thought about an XR but could fit the bill...
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TbirdX
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

XR kickstart only...unless you can find a trx convert electrickery one, but very rare.
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Phil D
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TbirdX wrote:
XR kickstart only...unless you can find a trx convert electrickery one, but very rare.


I don’t mind kickstart only
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G
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Re: Duel sport - WR450F (will it be cr@p on tarmac?) Reply with quote

Prices have gone up, but consider something a DR600.
Is kick start only, but other wise similar weight and peak power to a DRZ400, but a good bit more mid-range. Oh and oil cooled I believe - so simpler. Even longer in the tooth now however.

A KTM 400 with an extra oil radiator (gives better capacity, so longer intervals) could be worth considering too - and prices seem quite reasonable for a decently performing bike.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil D wrote:
Test rode a CRF250L today, found it very gutless and boring (25bhp).


Did you test ride a standard one?

second hand market is flooded with heavily modded ones now
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was it the DR600 which had the stupid left hand side kickstart?
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G
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah - that was the Husaberg 501E. Also had the rear wheel the wrong way around, to confuse tyre fitters if you take in a loose wheel.

DR600 just had a silly-hard kickstart that very much needed the right technique. (Remember a lighter individual going to try starting it and basically standing up on the lever, rather than pushing it down!)
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Phil D
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Prices have gone up, but consider something a DR600.
Is kick start only, but other wise similar weight and peak power to a DRZ400, but a good bit more mid-range. Oh and oil cooled I believe - so simpler. Even longer in the tooth now however.

A KTM 400 with an extra oil radiator (gives better capacity, so longer intervals) could be worth considering too - and prices seem quite reasonable for a decently performing bike.


Ill check them out but my only concern is the only ones left about have probably had a tough old life. Am i right in thinking that the older duel sports are superior because they didn't have to conform to modern emission standards meaning it was easier to get more grunt out of the single cylinders?

thx1138 wrote:
Phil D wrote:
Test rode a CRF250L today, found it very gutless and boring (25bhp).




Did you test ride a standard one?

second hand market is flooded with heavily modded ones now


Yeah was a new one at the dealers. To be fair i just wanted to get out on a bike for an hour as my CB750 isn't back together yet. Enjoyed cruising about the Devon countryside but unless i got one very cheap i know id ultimately feel disappointed with one. Im wary about purchasing a heavily modded bike as i wouldn't trust the POs spannering, id much rather be doing things myself.

Front runners are currently a DRZ (still) and an XR400. Some high mileage beasts about, what would you guys find reasonable for a duel sport? Looking on ebay 20k miles seems on the high side for these, obviously thats very low compared to a road bike
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G
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think so much emissions, but partly that bikes were higher spec back then, rather built to a budget - ie we still haven't had any bikes come near a sports 400 from the early 90s in that capacity.

Also, saving the bigger battery, charging circuit, water cooling electric start etc meant the DR600 was a reasonable weight. When it went up to the 650 it gained a few pounds from the more modern design.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
(Remember a lighter individual going to try starting it and basically standing up on the lever, rather than pushing it down!)


*ahem* *slowly raises hand* Shifty
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Was it the DR600 which had the stupid left hand side kickstart?


nope .. but startin one is nonetheless "interestin"

hens teeth now anyway ..
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Last edited by Copycat73 on 19:34 - 19 May 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx1138 wrote:
Phil D wrote:
Test rode a CRF250L today, found it very gutless and boring (25bhp).


Did you test ride a standard one?

second hand market is flooded with heavily modded ones now


i did .. and the lack of power was underwhelming...
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Phil D
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:

i did .. and the lack of power was underwhelming...


I couldn’t fathom what Honda have aimed for with it, it looks like a dirt bike but doesn’t feel like one at all.

Just going to hang on for a DRZ I think, anyone know of any dedicated forums that are worth scouring the for sale sections? I’ve been through the sticky and to be fair the only place that’s has them for sale is eBay really
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 19 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil D wrote:
Copycat73 wrote:

i did .. and the lack of power was underwhelming...


I couldn’t fathom what Honda have aimed for with it, it looks like a dirt bike but doesn’t feel like one at all.



It's for old people like me, who can't ride dirt bikes. Thumbs Up
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 01:49 - 20 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
DR600 just had a silly-hard kickstart that very much needed the right technique. (Remember a lighter individual going to try starting it and basically standing up on the lever, rather than pushing it down!)


My DR600 had a manual decompressor, don't remember it being that difficult to kick over, but there was, definitely a knack to it.

There is a Suzuki kick start kit available for the DRZ400, I was toying with the idea of getting one for my E, it wasn't that expensive and looked like quite an easy job to fit!
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 20 May 2018    Post subject: Re: Duel sport - WR450F (will it be cr@p on tarmac?) Reply with quote

Phil D wrote:
Hi guys im after a duel sport for some green laning, countryside riding (road)


I went through all this late last & early this year .. frankly the offerings from the jap. Manufacturers was crap or non existant
Second hand prices are through the roof ..."future classic init m8" .. even for something thats been ragged to fcuk.. so after some thought i bought a husqvarna 701 ..
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G
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 20 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

They did actually release a 'K' version of the DRZ-E which was a little lighter and kickstart only (no battery etc too I think.)

At least one of my DR600s did have the decompression lever - but as you suggest, with the right technique, I didn't find it too bad and didn't notice any real difference using the lever - actually, if anything it seemed it just took an extra spin before it actually fired.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 20 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are old XT's, DR600's and Honda XL600R/XR600's all really that pricey now? I do get there's probably few left and they are all getting on for 30yrs, but I thought it was only a few die hard restorers that were interested in them these day?

I assumed that everyone in the off road world just moved onto 90's> KTM and Husqvarna's etc as these were newer better bikes?

I've been thinking of getting an old 80's thumper for a while to restore as a big brother to my KMX's. I quite like the idea of the KLR600 as it was a bit high tech for its time and is quite high revving for a 600 single. I'd not want to pay ££££'s for a full resto project though.

Have used road legal dirt bikes gone the same way as mundane road bikes in that a 15-20year old bike is way more expensive than they used to be, because they've all been shipped out by dirty eastern Europeans?
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G
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 20 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like it - a good bit more than when I had mine 10+ years ago.

Also remember that I believe less new bikes are being sold too - bikes just aren't cheap anymore, old or new.

Mid-old competition bikes are often not too silly expensive yet, but prices have not come down much either with age.

90s KTMs and Husky's aren't really quite comparable with things like the DR600 - the similar weight offerings are a good bit more power/sophisticated (ie LC4) with more questionable reliability.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 20 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not great news then really for anyone?

I'd best keep both my KMX's then and hope I trip over a cheap non running big thumper project one day. Laughing

I've actually thought about buying a brand new supermoto, after reading about how many 701 owners there are, despite the fact we are well on the down slope from the supermoto heyday now.

If I do buy an SM maybe for next summer, it'll be the last new bike I buy, and I'll have to hope on winning the lotto for a big road bike one day, as it's only stuff like Sanctuary style GPZ's, CB900F's and the biggest of Zed's that appeal to me now.

If I had to buy a new road bike, I'd go for nothing bigger or better than say an MT07/ ER6 etc.
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Phil D
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 20 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what would ou guys class as high mileage for a DRz?

And is it really worth holding out for an E model over an s model? Plenty of SM and off road wheels available for whatever I end up with
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 20 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Are old XT's, DR600's and Honda XL600R/XR600's all really that pricey now? I do get there's probably few left and they are all getting on for 30yrs, but I thought it was only a few die hard restorers that were interested in them these day?


well that's how i found the situation .. ...
28 year old dominator for £2k ..
"blah blah future classic init m8"
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