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WmY
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 23 May 2018    Post subject: Not a new biker, but on behalf of. Reply with quote

Well, The Boy is 16, & we're rebuilding his Kisbee 50cc scooter engine at the moment.

When he's 17, he wants a 125. He's 6'3" or thereabouts, and aboout 13 1/2 stone.

He greatly fancies a Yamaha MT-125. Sad to tell, that may be out of budget, even as "a genuine 2-hand bargain". "Naked" seems to be a buzzword.

Any ideas? Cheapish, in similar vogue, suitable for taller riders.

He'll probably read this sometime Smile
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gbrand42
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 23 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

In B4 Varadero
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kgm
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 23 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serbia Terra adv 125
Tuono 125
Wr125x

All have decent seat heights.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 23 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The usual advice is to get something cheap and Japanese.
For most people a 125 is just a training bike, he’ll be wanting something bigger as soon as he turns 19.

If ‘naked’ is expensive, then try ‘commuter’. It means the same, but less sexy.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 23 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, really, but if he can find a Lexmoto (nee Pulse) Adrenaline or Tekken, or a Sinnis Apache or Terrain, it would have the size he's after. Catch one before it's been abused, or find a unicorn bike that's actually been looked after, and they might not be totally crazy, at the right price.

Unfortunately, Chinese horses are smaller than Japanese ones, so none of them will have that massive herd of ~14.6 to be found in the MT or Varadero.

Thing is, he can only buy what's for sale, and there are far, far more MT-125s around than any Chinese brand alternative.

So, in conclusion, ignore all that, get a YBR 125, and tough it out until he's 19. Whistle
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grr666
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used Varadero 125 in the BCF classifieds.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 04:04 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont sweat the small stuff, big-boy.....

125's are all much of a muchness... I'm 6'2" ish depending on the weather, and anywhere between 12 & 15 stone, depending on the mood of the scales.... (I do have a yo-you weight issue actually!) I have a CB750 'big-bike' and a CB125 'tiddler', and there's bog all difference in 'fit' twixt them cos of how big the engine may be.

Motorbikes are like 'off-the-peg' cloths... they are made around standard patterns to fit most folk of average size.

How big the hole where fire happens in the engine, has little or no bearing on how large the rest of the motorcycle may be.. they are still designed to fit a standard shaped and average sized rider, regardless, and a pair of 26" wide handlebars, don't much care whether they are fitted to a Mobilette 35cc pedal and pop moped, or a CB1000 super-bike....

The issue as far as fit goes is the ergonomics, and the distance twixt, boot, bum and bars.

Now, forget seat height; that's just how far bum be from floor, and easy to kid yourself you need a bike with tall seat to suit long legs, or low seat to suit short ones.

Here-in lies the niggle of girls with little legs buying cruisers... with very low seat heights.... cos of short legs... that then dont reach the forward set foot=-pegs in another county some-where infront of the engine, and wide bars that spread them out like a bondage-bar... which I probably wouldn't complain about.... sorry, wheat were we talking about.... my mind got stuck on images of leather stretched tightly over breasts.....

Oh... yeah.. sorry.. where were we... oh yeah, Leather clad Gilrls on Cruisers.....

We apologize for the interruption.... Normal service may return shortly after the screen has been cleaned... in the mean time please listen to some musak

... unable to turn the bars more than a couple of inches without leaning the wrong way.

Conversely, tall lads get dirt-bikes... cos seat is long way from floor, which must suit long legs, right? Only problem goes t'other way. Now the footpegs are usually lifted as much or more from the floor as the seat... which on soft, long travel off-road suspension probably squashed down to something as close to the floor as a cruiser when 13 odd stone is put on it.... leaving distance twixt footpegs painfully close to bum, and with very narrow saddles to allow rider motion 'off-road' thay can be as pile-fully excruciating as a plank for a seat sports bike with rear-set pegs..... and the handle-bars again, have issues, placed wide, which may not be such a problem is you have neanderthal arms like me, but set back close to the seat, so you are elbowing following traffic at more than 1/3 lock.....

That's two corners of the triangle; third is sports-bikes; which often an incredibly small 'slot' for a saddle, rear-set pegs and incredibly narrow bars, that can create similar perversions.

Of note; one of THE most painful bikes I have ever tried to ride, was oooh... thirty odd years ago, and a Honda MT125 GP bike; forerunner of the RS racers. WHEENY little thing; issues I had with it was that it had a bub-stop seat like racers do, so I could just about sit 'in' it, but then it had a fairing, but so narrow I could neither get my knees in it, or behind it.... it was a bit like Wurzel Gummage on a push bike! But this is to point at the extreme...

And that IS sort of the point; at the extremes, whether its for road-racer sports style, whether for Sons-of-Appethy chopper fantasies or dirt busting Charlie & Ewan dreams.... you run out of the 'average', and in all liklihood, any body that's out of the average is going to have more struggle on one.

Back to the fact that the bike is designed around an average sized person, regardless of the size of hole where fire happens....

If you are at the extremes of 'average' or beyond them, you are, like trying to buy a pair of off the peg trousers, going to struggle some, and find a fit thyat is the best compromise you can.....

Hint here is that the 'average' less syle conciouse usually 'naked' commuter, like a CG125, lexmoto or MT125, is more likely to be LESs of a compromise... but its up to you to pick the one you 'think' you can most easily live with....

INSURANCE

I say it time after time, but when trying to start biking, the BIKE is actually almost the last thing you need worry about... long list of stuff that's far more significant you need before that, and after CBT, and contemplation of a proper full licence, training, tests, a crash hat, water-proofs cos this is Britain..... locks, security, and stuff... INSURANCE is usually the crux point.

For typical 17 year old, insurance quotes can be astronomical; especially if you don't look at the proposal form so well, and dont tick the "+commuting" check box. Worth noting that motorcycles, now, so often used as second and leisure vehicles, do not usually included "+Commuting" in the standard SDP cover, you have to opt in for that cover... and it can STING when you do.....

No real tricks to getting insurance prices down, other than say GET OLD! Which works... but otherwise has little merit to it! And for a typical 17 year old depending on post-code, its likely that the annual insurance premium will be as much or more than they paid for the bike..... £1000+a year premiums are the norm, not the exception.

"The monthly plan" also worth mentioning; its not paying for insurance monthly; its taking out a loan to pay for a years insurance.... 17 year olds can struggle here, because they are not legally old enough to tale out a credit deal..... but that then hides a lot of the sting in the take small print, and on a monthly plan, first you will be paying something like 20% more than the premium price in credit charges.... on a £1000 policy that can be a not insignificant amount on its own.... as much as togging up with hat and gloves and decent boots... every year.... but then the hidden charges start to bite; and you can be left owing the credit company even after a 'claim' has supposedly paid out 'in full' because the insured value is subject to 'excess' and after they have deducted those, and terminated the policy, they only pay the value of the bike, and that can be less than outstanding repayements on the credit plan....

BE WARNED... I have not and WILL not tried to 'help' any of my kids trying to wangle insurance for them, by say taking a policy in my name, with them as named rider, or undersigning credit plan.... now ex did for one... and was left moaning that No4 son diodn't pay her back the monthlies that came out of her bank, and then when his bike was nicked, were still being taken from her account for six months after he'd given up on it, and grumbled he couldn't owe her anything, he'd not seen any of the insurance money..... she must owe him! It is just NOT somewhere I want to go or be involved in! Your call if you do.... just dont say I didn't tell you so!!!

BUT, that's a hurdle;e to be jumped, and often one of the biggest.... you cant do much about the rider's age; you cant do much about the rider's gender, you cant do much about the riders post code, etc etc etc.

Means that one of the few variables you can mess with to try get more reasonable premiums, is picking the most insurable bike. Here, the newer it is, the more expensive it is; the more expensive the bike, the more expensive it is to insure; the more stylish it is... the more expensive it is to insure. Old and Ugly tends to work quite well!

Bench-Mark Learner/Commuter motorcycle of recent times is the veritable YAMAHA YBR125.. it's not particularly flashy; is usually pretty solid though, and has about as much performance as any pof them. Is well known and common, and has lots of after-market support for spares and accessories, and IS in the insurance companies date-bases, unlike obscure European or Chinese offerings, sold under almost fly-by-night brand-names that dont seem to last as long as the tyres.... The YBR is a known and trusted quantity, and other than overall being one of the cheapest 125's to own in the long term.. what extra you might have to pay to buy one, you usually get back when you sell, and save whilst you own..... it IS easy to live with.... its also easy to ride, its a regulation as average as they come learner motorcycle, with as few compromises to style or performance as they can give it. Usually fits most reasonably comfortably... it just does the job, no mess no fuss, no frills.. though more than enough thrills if you go looking for'em!

Bought at three or four years old, with a fresh MOT, the first ownbers have taken the biggest sting of new bike depreciation, and you should be able to get a bike for about half the cost of a new bike in the show-room, that still has more than half it's useful service life in it, and some assurance it hasn't been tinkered, crashed or serviced into oblivion during MOT exemption.... as said, bench-=mark Best VFM 125 out there.

Typical example will likely cost around £1500 or so, use that as bench mark to judge all else by.

As said, designed around 'average' ride, and few if any compromises for alternative style, it should fit pretty much any-one 'reasonably' well...

Alternatives?

Well, first off, there's 60odd million people in the UK. Over half of them can drive a car, and there are actually more cars taxed for road use for them to drive, than there are folks licenced to drive them. Less than 1% of road transport is by bike....Less than 1 million then... yet around 3x as many folk with a licence to ride them... and that's a FULL licence.... half the taxed bikes in the UK are Learner-Legals, any-one with a licence can ride on L-'s... so there's a heck of a lot more potential buyers for a lot less possible vehicles.... and of the half million or so 125's there may be.... 2/3 or more are mopeds and scooters, not 'bikes'.

You come down to perhaps 150,ooo learner legal motorcycles you could buy for the lad, the length and bredth of the country; owned on average 18 months or so, less than 1000 might come up for sale in any one month.... and of them? Probably half will be tag end of life scrap heap refugees, or restoration projects. A Third of what's left will likely be nearly new and in MOT exemption, out of budget or in dealers show-rooms with inflated price tags.

Leaves maybe 250 motorcycles, on sale in any one month, you MIGHT actually stand a chance of finding a better example among.... the lenght and bredth of the country, if you are prepare to travel to see them, and get there before any-other optimist with £-notes burning a hole in thier pocket......

You THINK you have choice, and you think you want to make the smart one... but reality is its Hobson's....

You cant buy a bike that aint for sale... and you have to be prepared to travel to find it, and travel quick to get a better one before any-one else does...

And your choice... REALLY?!? With an eager teenager at your heel? Nagging you to get the first thing they rev-up on some-ones drive?!?

My advice; Stuff the mags, stuff the specs; matters very little.. what matters is bikes you can get to, see and sussed out in the metal... and a bike thatr might look great in the brochures or reviews wont look so great in cold day-light, after three or four numpty learners have had at it..... then specs mean little, what's in the metal matters....

But again... you have to be there, on the spot looking at something, with the quid-coins rattling in your pocket, first... and the bike, is STILL pretty much last thing on the list of stuff to worry about.....

And Yam YBR125, remains the bench-mark..... get your lad to sit on one, and give him the schpiel about how they are the best one-size fits all, least cost, least hassle, most 'sensible' learner-bike.... and work from there......

IF... and this is BIG if... you actually want to make this YOUR problem, and be the one in the firing line for anything and everything from lending the extra to get the bike they think really worth the extra, to putting your name on credit agreement for insurance, to being the one, trying to cram the thing in the back of an estate car, when he's gone top a party and one of his 'mates' had decided to pull the fuel hose for a laugh! Or worse!

Having been there, done that and got the T-Shirt.. now, I would be very very sangine about getting that involved, and reckon it easier to be called a miserable old bugger, than any of the other possible names that would get chucked at me! I WOULD get involved... I know... done it too many times.... but I'd be curbing enthusiasm and putting definite limits on what help I'd offer.... including not being the one to check the chain for them, let alone undersign credit agreements!!! Like I said... your kid, your call, but dont say I didn't tell you!!!!

Meanwhile, not answering the question you wanted answering, make and model, make very little odds in the grander scheme, you can only buy a bike that's for sale... forget the mags, forget the brochures, go pound shoe-leather... no point setting your sites on the 'perfect' fantasy league 125, if none come up in the small adds!

(Another hint, an awful lot of 125's get sold not in the mags or on e-bay or gum-tree of anywhere else you can easily 'look', but accross canteen tables at break-times, in colleges and factories or in works car-parks, by word of mouth..... use the grape-vine, look in at the post-cards in news-agents windows, ask around at work, tell lad to ask around at college, network the old fashioned face to face way like without a smart-phone!! With the odds against you to start with, you have to go that extra mile to tip the tables even slightly)
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 06:48 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.port.ac.uk/media/top-ten/tef/tef-logo-border.png
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
YBR125

Edited for brevity.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another vote for the YBR125.

I'm 6'3", had zero issues with it on longer trips. Plan on about-ish £1K for something 2nd hand but decent that'll last, he'll be on it until he's 19 and can do A2.
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recman
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

XT 125.
By far the coolestest.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wanted a MTX125 back in the day. In black and yellow preferably.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:
XT 125.
By far the coolestest.

Same engine as the YBR AFAIK. The WR125 has the full 15 bhp.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 24 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
I really wanted a MTX125 back in the day. In black and yellow preferably.


The Bumblebee MTX?

Erm you surely mean a fire engine red/blue one though with a full Giannelli exhaust instead? I'd think I was Dave Thorpe at Hawkstone Park on my factory RC500 every lunchtime! Laughing

I was into white/red DT's at the time, as I used to ride a
White YZ125 at weekends years ago.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 07:36 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
recman wrote:
XT 125.
By far the coolestest.

Same engine as the YBR AFAIK. The WR125 has the full 15 bhp.


Indeed. The XT and YBR share a Haynes manual.
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derillius24
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm 6'3", 15 stone. Spent 9 months on a CG125, did big mileage on it, never had a problem. Except possibly looking a bit like a clown on it. Bought it for £500, sold it for £575.

Don't let him be one of those fecking idiots who spends many thousands of pounds on a shiny 125 before getting a hard-on for a 600 supersports bike within a month (coz chicks and young guys always riding godz, innit) and then selling said 125 for thousands of pounds less than it was bought for (coz likely to get dropped, innit).
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

derillius24 wrote:
getting a hard-on for a 600 supersports bike within a month

He won't be on one of those (legally) until he's at least 21. At 17, he'll have two years of wasting time on a tiddler to get through. Buying something like a used MT-125 isn't totally bananas if he has the folding for it. Failing that, the scratch, the moolah, the greenbacks, the dough, the gilt, the brass, the spondulicks.
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recman
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
recman wrote:
XT 125.
By far the coolestest.

Same engine as the YBR AFAIK. The WR125 has the full 15 bhp.


Must admit, the XT is a tad under powered.
Still a giggle though and there must be one or two things you can do to up the grunt.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah fit a bigger engine Wink It's a bit like the XR125 having a CG engine, you really want a DT. I wanted a DT Crying or Very sad
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Plus Life EV
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im 6"2 and around 13stone, I had a ybr125 and loved it.

Some people said it looked quite small on me but I wasn't bothered, It's still a lot better than a twist and go moped isnt it?

It never felt small to me anyway until I started A2 lessons then the difference was awful haha
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 25 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus Life EV wrote:
It's still a lot better than a twist and go moped isnt it?

If you want to (sort of) learn how to ride a geared then yes, otherwise no Smile The constant gear changes are a chore. However in London you're less likely to get acid thrown in your face on a geared 125 Thumbs Up
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 26 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH in the current licencing system, assuming your going to stay riding bikes and look after your bikes, then theft risk aside you might as well get the best 125 you can afford/find and one that is sought after second hand and thus should hold a good residual value.

supermoto, retro and sports style 125's are very popular, and some of the 15bhp sports ones can actually nudge 75 true mph. If your keeping it two years plus, that's better than a 60mph one depending on how you look at it.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 01:12 - 26 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

If you want to (sort of) learn how to ride a geared then yes, otherwise no Smile The constant gear changes are a chore. However in London you're less likely to get acid thrown in your face on a geared 125 Thumbs Up


I sort of agree with this to a point, especially in London/city traffic on daily commutes. By the same logic though a 250cc scooter would be way better than an RGV 250 too.

And the thing about a basic frumpy commuter 125 looking better than a sporty scooter that maybe has better brakes, sticky tyres and is quicker off the mark, well that's up to you, but getting the best tool for the job is better than I'm a biker not a chavped owner mentality IMO.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 26 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a 250/300cc scooter you'll definitely get acid thrown in your face Smile I don't know at what point you have enough power to stop constantly searching for gears. I guess around 30bhp (having ridden a 33bhp bike) but I think it depends on the bike, a heavy clutch might make the bike a PITA regardless.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 28 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if you can't get away from the hijackers on a 300cc scooter in heavy traffic then you won't get away regardless IMO.

As for 'how much bhp is required to prevent constant gearbox tap dancing' well that depends on alot of things.
Your attitude towards what constitutes lots of gear changing for one, and also how much progress your trying to make. Are you trickling through stationary traffic, country side bumbling, full bore traffic light GP starts, or trying to overtake everything going 5-10mph below a national speed limit on a twisty road?

Power delivery and not power alone has a massive factor to play too, as does state of tune compared to capacity alone.

An example might be that for commuting, a Suzuki GN250 will plod along and need far less gear changes than a Suzuki RGV 250 ridden on the same route at the same time etc.
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