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DVLA fine for no tax

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BrownTrousers
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 08 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: DVLA fine for no tax Reply with quote
TLDR:

    I owned a bike, it was taxed until 1st April 2018.

    I sold the bike to a dealer on 24th March 2018. Gave them the V5, got a receipt. They said they would process the transfer online.

    I got a letter from DVLA early April warning me that i hadn't taxed it: I ignored it as I assumed they sent it out before the transfer happened.

    Got another letter yesterday demanding £80 fine for no tax (Plus £7 arrears).

    I contacted the dealer, who say they forgot to process it, and they processed it online yesterday (with a transaction date in March).


Theres no phone number on the letter to explain the above to a human, just three boxes to tick why i shouldn't have to pay by either 1) proving i have already taxed it 2) proving i sorned it or 3) proving i have sold it and notified them.
If i pay immediately the fine is only £40.

So - should i pay the fine, Ignore the letter or try to argue my case?

For £40 I guess i should suck it up and pay - lesson learned to be more pro-active in notifying them next time and not make assumptions about dealer's efficiency.
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Last edited by BrownTrousers on 12:54 - 30 May 2018; edited 1 time in total
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
No fine there fam, dat is bribe.

I'd do fuck all, not your problem. Show DVLA via post if needed that you sold it that day, if they even bother. Tell them to fuck off, exact words. You definitely recorded the call with the dealer didn't you, because its only idiots that don't record their calls these days Wink

In short, fuck em, don't pay, cunt them off.
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BrownTrousers
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 08 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
I should have predicted the fine/bribe conversation. Laughing

Technically the letter states i have to pay a penalty under section 31A of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.

to pay this penalty, i have to go to www,gov.uk/pay-dvla-fine
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piazza
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Give the letter to the dealer with a laugh and a wink. He knows the penalties Thumbs Up
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Monkeywrenche...
Nearly there...



Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
DVLA wrote:
8
What to do if you are selling your vehicle to a motor trader
who has asked for the whole V5C
When selling your vehicle to a motor trader you must fill in section 9 of the
V5C and send it to us. The motor trader does not need this section and
should not keep it. You should give the rest of the V5C to them.
It is your responsibility to ensure that section 9 is sent to us,
even if the
motor trader offers to do this for you.
If the motor trader keeps the whole
V5C, you should send us a signed letter confirming who you passed the
vehicle to and the date this took place.


Ask them nicely to let you off?
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Evil Hans
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Re: DVLA fine for no tax Reply with quote
BrownTrousers wrote:

[list]I contacted the dealer, who say they forgot to process it, and they processed it online yesterday (with a transaction date in March).


Are you sure? It may have a transfer date in March, but the transaction date (the DOCREF date is how it appears on a V5) will almost certainly be in May.

But yeah, try to talk to someone at DVLA and they *may* see sense.
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BrownTrousers
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 08 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Monkeywrencher wrote:

When selling your vehicle to a motor trader you must fill in section 9 of the
V5C and send it to us. The motor trader does not need this section and
should not keep it. You should give the rest of the V5C to them.
It is your responsibility to ensure that section 9 is sent to us,
even if the
motor trader offers to do this for you.
If the motor trader keeps the whole
V5C, you should send us a signed letter confirming who you passed the
vehicle to and the date this took place.



This is helpful, and what i suspected. Had they not introduced the online transfers, that is exactly what i would have done. Since the online service existed and the dealer said they would use that (and because i was excited to collect my new bike) i simply overlooked actually sending off a bit of paper.

I think I will send off a grovelling reply notifying them that i am no longer the owner (and wasn't when the tax expired) but if no response within the 28 days where the fine is reduced, i guess i'll have to suck it up.

Evil Hans wrote:


Are you sure? It may have a transfer date in March, but the transaction date (the DOCREF date is how it appears on a V5) will almost certainly be in May.



Yes you are right the transfer date will be March but of course DVLA will see it was only processed yesterday.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Re: DVLA fine for no tax Reply with quote
BrownTrousers wrote:
Gave them the V5, got a receipt. They said they would process the transfer online.

https://i.imgur.com/LgjbkjX.png

Sorry to hear that you trusted a dealer, but you trusted a dealer. It's your responsibility to inform the Secr'ty State (via the DVLA) about the change of keeper, not theirs.

DVLA aren't going to care. If you tell them the sorry tale, all you're doing is admitting to them that you didn't do what you were responsible for doing.


BrownTrousers wrote:
I contacted the dealer, who say they forgot to process it, and they processed it online yesterday

They lied to you once, why trust them again?

I would suggest:

Get it on record that the dealer did not do what they told you that they'd do. Ask if they want to pay the blackmail demand that has resulted from their failure.

Inform the DVLA in writing when you sold the vehicle and who you sold it to, and suggest that they should pursue the de facto keeper (the dealer) with their blackmail demand. You could go ahead and assert that you did so send off the change of keeper to them in a timely fashion.

Ignore anything further from the DVLA, tell them nothing else, and see if they bother to prosecute you in about 5 months. Nothing that you tell them will help you - they only want your money-money-money.

If they do prosecute, take it on the chin, since you've already admitted to the offence. Bribe the prosecutor at the door (start with £10, so poor) or go guilty, so very sorry, let myself and everyone else down, so many dead kittens. Only baww about the dealer in mitigation, not as a defence.

Invoice the dealer for the amount of any (actual) fine. LBA, small claims, lulz.
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Tamsin
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dear DVLA

Bike was sold on (date) to (dealer, dealer address)

I therefore have no liability in this case.

Regards.



Simples....
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doggone
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 30 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dealers always have fingers crossed, write back to DVLA stating when it was sold to them.
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Suntan Sid
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 May 2009
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PostPosted: 08:36 - 31 May 2018    Post subject: Re: DVLA fine for no tax Reply with quote
BrownTrousers wrote:
I got a letter from DVLA early April warning me that i hadn't taxed it: I ignored it as I assumed they sent it out before the transfer happened.


No help I'm afraid, however I have been in a similar situation.

When I spoke to a DVLA desk jockey he stated that the VED reminders were printed out 6 weeks prior to their expiry dates and once they were in the system they couldn't be removed.

The whole system is flawed, they'd never admit it though, we permanently exported a vehicle 2 years ago, followed the procedure to the letter, yet today the vehicle still shows up on their system as SORN!
In an ideal world, just for fun, I'd like to unSORN it, just to embarrass the halfwits in court. Unfortunately I can't because unSORNing requires tax, insurance and MOT, which I can't get. I'm guessing the vehicle, which no longer exists in the UK, will remain on the 'system' as an anomaly until the end of time, marvellous! Rolling Eyes
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BrownTrousers
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 08 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 31 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
As advised by BCF legal experts, I wrote back to DVLA saying "not my bike", and also wrote to the dealer asking for an apology and £47.

To my surprise, the dealer has coughed up, so I'll wait 27 days to see if DVLA retract the fine (doubtful) and if not, I'll pay it whilst it's still a reduced amount.

No harm done I suppose, I live and learn.
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Ducati Multistrada 950 | Triumph Tiger 800 XR | Honda CBR500R | Yamaha YBR 125 Custom
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 31 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dealer in customer service shocker. Shocked
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 31 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrownTrousers wrote:
see if DVLA retract the fine (doubtful)

Please, for the love of Allan, stop calling it a "fine". I'm begging you, man. So, so, triggered.

They can't retract it, since it's not been issued. It's just a blackmail demand which they'll hold over you. If you don't pay up, they might take you to court, they might not. You did commit an "offence", and all you're doing by bawwing to them about it is admitting guilt.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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