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1971 Yamaha Yds7 running issue

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Dorasnora
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 09 Jun 2018    Post subject: 1971 Yamaha Yds7 running issue Reply with quote

Hi. I'm a newbie on here, new to 2 strokes, and just returning to 2 wheels.

I bought a 1971 Yamaha YDS7 250cc last weekend. Was hoping to get out today but have a knackered battery - I pick up a new one on Monday.

Hubby is a pretty fine mechanic, but bikes aren't his thing. We started the bike earlier but as soon as the power was cut to the battery it just died.

It's smoking well too, but reckon it just needs a blatt out as it's only done a handful of miles between mots (400 miles in 7 years with the last owner)..

Changed the 2 stroke oil and filled tank with petrol. Not got any kind of manual yet, and I really want to do as much as I can myself on this bike Smile

Any advice gratefully received, and please be patient with me =D
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 23:44 - 09 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

"""We started the bike earlier but as soon as the power was cut to the battery it just died. """ ?????????????????????????????????????
Why give power to a new battery????????????
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Dorasnora
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PostPosted: 23:52 - 09 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

New battery is on order, picking up on Monday. We were trying to get the bike running with the old battery, but it's not holding any charge (hence new one coming).

I wanted to ride my bike, even if just round our garden!

Am waiting for a manual to arrive too, so dealing with this a bit blind atm.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 00:24 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is an air cooled engine so be care full not to run it on a weak mixture.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It won't run properly without a good battery.

Timing must be set with a dial gauge.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 02:22 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

PATIENCE

ISTR that the aircooled RD I had... errr.... 32 years ago!!!! Wouldn't run without a battery.. I cant remember the wiring scematics, its a less common one, but where most older bikes have a magneto that provides electric for the sparks as long as the motor is running, unless its 'shorted to earth' via the kill or ignition switch, the YDS7 RD I 'think' takes ignition power off the battery like a car, hence it may run with a sulphated up battery making the circuit with a battery charger giving amps for sparks, but if the battery wont hold charge, it will suck anything the generator makes and not leave anything for the ignition.

Wait for the new battery

Wait for the book

Patience is a virtue, and if you cant find some now.... get rid of old bike, or you WILL either end up making more problems than you ever solve in the 'rush' or you'll give yourself a nervous breakdown!

Its an old bike.. it has lots of idiosyncrasies, it will likely defy even the best modern mechanic 'cos of antiquated and uncommon design 'freatures' and old age, and if you cant apply some patience its going to just give you headaches and frustration from start to early finish.

When you get new battery..... follow instructions carefully, dont just chuck it on and start pounding in the kicker!

It will almost certainly, if mail order, require filling with acid.... check your order to make sure what you have ordered does come with acid packs for you to fill it... many e-bay cheapos dont to keep listing prices down and get folk to buy them in their 'hurry'.. if battery arrives 'dry' you may have another week to wait to get acid and get it filled.... PARIENCE

Once filled... more patience.... check levels, and put battery on charge... not in the bike, but in the house or shed, on a tray covered with newspaper.... takes about 12hours to trickle charge a new battery... and as it charges it will boil the electrolyte... if you have filled to the line, it will probably 'vent' a bit of acid as it charges.. hence tray and newspaper.... but then, the electrolyte level will start to drop... and not necesserily evenly, so dobt just look at the level of acid in the battery next to the scale or lines,,, check each 'cell' and worth keeping an eye on them every couple of hours, or if doing over night, an hour after you turn it on, just before going to bed, when you get up, and an hour later.... THEN... after a good 12 hour of charge, and the battery charger if it has a charge indicator saying its 'charged'...and you have checked and topped the electrolyte levels.... put it back on trickle charge for another hour or so, to make sure that its properly charged with any new electrolyte in it..... IE you want to make sure the electrolyute leve;l is stable, and then give it an hour or so's charge to be sure the battery is properly charged.

And again, more patience... you cant rush this, and if you have power or amp settings on the charger, use the lowest, slower it charges less electrolyte will be like to boil, easier the battery will get 'conditioned'

Then... you might go put on bike... make sure contacts are clean, make sure they are the right way round... check the book!

And in all liklihood all will be good and bike will fire up happy as larry.... if not, you have eliminated the first variable in the fault finding and can work from known start point on anything else.

Seem to recall, that these motors like fresh new spark plugs, so get a new pair for first fireup.. makes starting easier... and again payience putting them in... you dont want to stri[p the threads in the cylinder head!!! So also dont wampo them down as tight as you can with a big spanner! finger tight and aprox 1/4 turn is all the tight they need.

Look at old plugs, compare to picture in the book, and then have a play with sandpaper to clean then up and gap them..... to the book... it will likely be a common job!!!

As GT said points timing is pretty critical; and one of the biggest bugfbears I have had with points ignition engines over the years is chewed up adjuster screws.

There's one screw per pair of points, and I think the twins had twp pairs of points so two screws' that you loosen to move the points forwards or back in relation to the crank-shaft to adjust timing... both need setting and setting exactly the same... they often aren't... and to get at the screws you have to poke screw--driver through the magneto rotor... which often tries to grab the dang thing with its magnets! folk using the wrong size or type of screwdriver in suck awkward access often chew them to bludgery... esp as like sparkplugs they oft have notions that the tighter the better.....

If me... 'cos points is eek... actually not THAT cheap any more, from last time I bought a pair from Yam-Bits... but on any 'new--to--me' points ignition bike, I order new points and condensers for it, and swap as soon as they arrive, as a matter of course to answer silly questions later....

Like adjusting them, the are often 'cleaned' through the rotor window, and frequently folk put an angle on them so the gap is almost impossible to 'set' as one side of the points opens before the other....

As replacing points, condenser and points screws begs removing the fly-wheel rotor... I tend to get the special rotor tool when I order first pair of points to get it off, and fit them.... and it then comes in handy for pulling the rotor to get at points to clean later, without having to work through that tiny window.

But, as said, its all in the book, that and patience are your best freinds.... dont rush... rushin be fast way to hurt on motorbikes.... riding them or doing maintenance and repairs!!!
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Dorasnora
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PostPosted: 07:54 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all of your replies Smile much appreciated

We have had classic cars for years so are prepared for the niggles, trials and tribulations!

The new battery is being collected from the bike shop tomorrow lunchtime, so will deal with that after work.

This bike was a bit of an impulse buy. Will have to see what I can do after work each day now as no free weekends until the end of summer Sad
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The generator needs a good 12v feed to work as it's energised by battery voltage, i.e. it has no output unless the outer windings are powered up, which is why it cut out when you disconnected the external supply.

When you get it running with a fresh battery check it's charging properly, the original regulator is electromechanical and can either undercharge or chuck out 17 volts and ruin the battery and / or the rotor. If you intend keeping the bike it's worth swopping it for a modern solid state one.

Manuals / tech stuff here

https://www.aircooledrdclub.com/tech.html
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Old Git Racing
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

While you are waiting for the battery it might be an idea to take the carbs off and give them a good clean out. 400 miles in 7 years = old shit petrol gumming jets and floats up. Take the bowls off and have a look.

OGR
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pick up a couple of new plugs while you're in the shop to have just in case.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dorasnora wrote:
We have had classic cars for years so are prepared for the niggles, trials and tribulations!

Lol... I think you should be prepare to re-calibrate your ideas!

Classic cars may have given you an idea of the difficulties and tribulations of an old clunker, but bike mechanics have a lot more possible variation and idiosyncrasies, and more so the older they get.... and that Yam? Its as old as I am, an I ent no spring chicken!

Just as an example, how many cars can you think of that are two-strokes? Or have a dyamo, or are possitive earth, or have 6v electrics? Or recirculating ball steering? and have you ever tried to live with any of them?

Classic bikes covers an enormous arena of mechanical diversity, and possible hassles, whilst very very sparsely populated, less than 1% of road traffic is bikes, and the support for them very very thin on the ground.

For example; as an old silhillian, I have been running (or trying to!) run old silhillian iron for the last twenty years; I want a headlamp for a 1990 Range Rover? NO Problem... same as the MGB, and the Mini, and the Moggy 1000; I can go get one from perhaps a dozen classic car specialists within 15 miles of me.. or even if I wait a day, the motor-factors round the corner.... I want a slam panel for the engine bay? Again, choice of half a dozen UK specialists to choose from, off the shelf, next day del.... and twice as many folk who will offer advice about fitting the damn thing....

Try finding a two-stroke oil reservoir for your Yamaha.... (I tried for mine, and it took me almost a year!) you have, for 'most' spares Yam-Bits... and will eek at prices; you might, for steel-rim spoked wheels have a couple of specialists that can rebuild them, but most likely only Central Wheels, and will faint at the cost, without hub.

A lot will come down to scouring e-bay for better used parts, and as they sold so few to begin with, the few in the breakers will be small, and bits expensive, whilst new parts will often be nie on unobtanium, and with such a small market, few offer patern or universal or 'replica' parts for bikes... I believe it was possible, and may still be so, to build a complete, brand new Land-Rover, Range-Rover, MGB or E-Type, and probably many others, entirely from 'pattern-spares'.... not so for bikes...... if its been out of serial production for more than five years, you are likely going to struggle to get stuff, new or used, and that yam is almost 50!... and this doesn't just effect the viability of running or restoring something 'old', it can be an issue with stuff made as recently as this century!

Still.. old air-cooled stroker-twin.... bit of a schittzoid in its own lunch-time...... and the original loonie-learners tool of choice... an interesting and desirable classic, and now as a classic not 'so' banzia as its legend suggests, and possibly one of the better supported old bikes.... but..... comparison to classic cars? Wont hold all that well that long, me-thinks. Be prepared... and apply patience... lots and lots of patience.

Spark-Plugs have been mentioned.... in thier day, Kawasaki actually tapped holes under the seat to store spares; bike like my Montesa often has a second spark plug hole tapped in the head so that the HT cap could be swapped over when they fouled! Using modern two-stroke oils.... of which buy mail order, from the specialists, dont rely on petrol stations having any, and if they do, likely pretty poor oil intended for strimmers and hedge trimmers rather than motorbikes, properly set up, but more importantly properly thrashed to burn off the soot, plugs dont tend to be 'as' prone to fouling... but they still do... as idea, my trials bike, which is oooh.... just shy of 40 years old now, tended to get it's plug swapped every event, or maybe 4 hours running time.... and that is a very very low-tuned air-cooled two-smoke, running on modern oils, very carefully pre-mixed for each event, with twenty odd years of trial and error to get the ratio right.

Off the stops? I would say buy in bulk, so you can have a set in the bike, and a set ready to swap into it... but, as both I and GT-Fan hinted, running an old air-cooled two-smoke in todays traffic... you aren't so likely to let it have its head as loons of old, the plug is likely to soot up.... and you are probably best advised to do some messing, and find the 2T oil that works best, and the plug grade that works best, and get the auto-lube set up to work best with both, and your riding style, they did like to be thrashed and once warm that did help keep 'hot' plugs clear while a thinner oil mix could be used, making them labour off the pipe, more often, nursing the 'classic'? Probably will make plug more want to foul, and you will have to polay with the parameters to find what works best for you.... and dont pay too much heed to advice..... other peoples ideas can be anything from bimbling to and from work on the thing in 30mph traffic like one of my ex work mates did on an RD400... to other's trying to show modern 600's what a 'real' bike can do down the lanes, and little to say that what works for them will work for you.. so be prepared to mess... and when you have found what plug grade suits.... then buy in bulk!

But, be prepared for far more 'charecter' shall we say than you ever found in a classic car, and a lot more potential niggles and hassles.
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Dorasnora
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your comments, advice and replies. Much appreciated.

Spare time is a bit limited atm, but hubby put the new battery on for me whilst I was at work. It started and ran tonight, and I rode it round the garden (been a few years since my GPz500s got written off).

I've got a busy couple of weeks ahead, so I will have new plugs and points ready, manuals have been downloaded from one of the links (thank you for posting), Haynes manual too.

My holiday reading sorted! Looking forward to having a day in the garage cleaning carbs out n stuff, and finding my way around the engine and this bike.

I'll be back Smile
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first real bike when I was 17. I loved it. Wub

Good quality 2 stroke oil. The injector pump set up correctly. If you run it hard, and I mean hard, B9ES plugs from what I remember. B8ES for normal riding. I think the manual says B7ES but I found it ran too hot with them. (Don't take this as gospel as I might be getting mixed up with my RD250, it was 45 years ago Embarassed )
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 03:39 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
My first real bike when I was 17. I loved it. ....... it was 45 years ago Embarassed )

Does it get any less scary, then, when you try and remember back, and you realise that it was longer ago, than when your grandad said "Before the war..." to you when you were a teen ager?
I am still trying to kid myself that "thirty years" doesn't seem so bad as "quarter century"
Or shall I just take what solace I can from the revelation that you were getting your first motorbike, about the time I was learning to walk..... Laughing
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Dorasnora
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PostPosted: 08:11 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first bike was a Honda CB100N in 1986 (bought the bike and left home 3 weeks later as the parents were not impressed!)
Had various Honda... CM250, CD175 Benley, 400/4 (e of them and I sooooo wish I still had one) and rode or had use of a variety of bikes in those few years including an early Bantam.

A ban, a baby, and life got in the way of bikes and finally got a GPZ500s as my divorce present to myself in 1999! That was written off by a twat not looking where he was going and Morris Minors sort of replaced bikes for a few years!

Ford Corsairs and Anglias are where we are now, and my new acquisition now taking up a corner of the garage!

Most of my cars gave been older than me but I'm 3 years older than my bike.... Scary thing recently was when I found out I'm old enough to be mum to to the team I work with (eldest is 34!!)

Not around much for the next week or so but appreciate the advice so far.

Take care Smile
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:00 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
My first real bike when I was 17. I loved it. ....... it was 45 years ago Embarassed )

Does it get any less scary, then, when you try and remember back, and you realise that it was longer ago, than when your grandad said "Before the war..." to you when you were a teen ager?
I am still trying to kid myself that "thirty years" doesn't seem so bad as "quarter century"
Or shall I just take what solace I can from the revelation that you were getting your first motorbike, about the time I was learning to walk..... Laughing


Thanks for that Tef, just when I was feeling good! Laughing
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

YR5 and DS7 use H plugs (short reach). Only B model RD’s onward use E plugs.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
YR5 and DS7 use H plugs (short reach). Only B model RD’s onward use E plugs.


Ah, senility has caught up with me then. I wasn't sure if it was the YDS7 or the RD 250 so ignore my ramblings. Doh!
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 14 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend had a YDS7 back in the mid-70s when I was riding a CB125s.

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Bikes/LloydFamilyPhotos002.jpg~original

This was a typical Sunday morning before a rideout somewhere Dance!

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Bikes/LloydFamilyPhotos003.jpg~original

Somewhere in Kent Cool Sun
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 15 Jun 2018    Post subject: yds7 Reply with quote

:D you lucky girl you, your gunna love it, apart from the fuel costs......... :D

there must be a manual on here, and/or get a Haynes one as well. You know of cmsnl, follow your nose and print off all info/exploded views which will help you.

5 or 6 speed ? it will have a 6th inside the gearbox.........

charging system needs to work to charge the battery when the engine is running, controlled field ( brushes ) alternator with control box under battery.

beware, the clutch will be stuck !!!!!!! don't rev and BANG it into gear, else a dentist will be needed.


be aware the centre main bearings are gearbox lubed, the seals there can leak air/oil, so really smoky engine due to this, but 2t tank may have "leaked" into engine.

as someone has said, a dial gauge and a dwell meter for the points, be aware of plugs, correct heat else hole a piston !! a test lamp and/or radio comes in handy with the points, but the marks on the alternator rotor are an "indication"..........you will need to be accurate.

However, you will eventually "see the light" about the ignition system :D :karma: 8o)
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 15 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

YR5 and DS7 are five speed, only RD’s are six speed (with 5th blanked off for certain markets). Centre mains are not lubricated by gearbox oil either, only Suzuki do silly things like that.

Points are fine unless you are tuning it, standard coils are crap though.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 18 Jun 2018    Post subject: rd Reply with quote

its been a long time dude......but the rd in the shed is now mot and tax exempt, yeepyy!! so will be see the light of day this winter ready for next summer, as long as there is some petrol left that is. :D
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Dorasnora
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 21 Jul 2018    Post subject: Update! Reply with quote

Hi guys.
Took the bike out 4 weeks ago for the first time.
Have been to a couple of local classic meets and got a few miles under my belt now.
Had a 60 mile round trip today and came home with a new MOT certificate.
I'm loving it! Confidence is returning, and now for some basic maintenance.....

Manual says gearbox oil to be changed every 1000miles or 6 weeks. Manual doesn't tell me HOW to do it.... I need a complete idiots guide to do these things...
Any advice?

Thanks again
Sue
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Old Git Racing
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 21 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you need a haynes manual, plenty on ebay.

Remove sump plug, underneath engine towards the back, remove oil filler cap, drain oil.
Replace sump plug, may need to use a new washer, refill with oil.

Every 1000 miles seems a bit over cautious to me. Oils are far better nowadays than 1971. A good quality semi synthetic motorcycle oil would go 3k easily. Please use oils specifically for bikes, Old Yamaha clutches were never the best, use car oil and it will slip.

OGR.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 21 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The clutch will be ok with 250 cylinders, it’s crap on the YR5 and was subject to a few updates by Yamaha, none of which really work 100%. Use ATF in the gearbox, change every 3k or when gearchange gets stiff.
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