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This might sound stupid, but I need it clearing up

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Guido
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Joined: 10 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: This might sound stupid, but I need it clearing up Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

Complete newbie here both to the forum and the world of motorcycling.
I’ve got my DA course booked for the back end of July.

Naturally, I’ve always wanted to do this, but couldn’t afford it so I’m stupid excited about finally getting on two wheels.

So yeah, I’ve been looking at bikes to buy for when I pass, I had my eyes on a few with the idea of starting on a small 500cc ish (cb500, er5 etc.) and building up as my skill level increases.

Thing is, i was out among a few bike riding folks and when I mentioned the plan they semi laughed and said “why don’t you get a proper bike, none of that 500 crap” and then proceeded to advise me to go for at least a 600cc (sv650, er6 etc)

I’m quite happy to ignore the ego talk, but I do worry that I’ll either get used to or tired of a 500cc fairly quickly or I at least won’t be able to keep up on road trips with fellow bikers with big bikes.

I don’t want to jump straight on and do 1000 mph, I understand it’s a learning curve and I have enough mechanical sympathy to not just screw the balls off whatever bike I can afford.

I do want to start off on the right footing though and give myself the best chance at learning to ride properly.

I’d be using it for a bit of commuting which is only 1 mile either way, but mostly for A road and B road rides, possibly the odd motorway.

So my question is really, is a 500 actually a big bike? Is it worth going bigger?

Sorry for the essay, any help is much appreciated!
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arry
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't sweat it. A 500, a 600 - they're all good fun and neither will cause you instadeath. In some ways you're better starting off bigger; it gives you a little more get out of jail ability.

But anyway, a 600 isn't going to kill you - see how you get on with your training bike and go from there; think about what you do and don't like about whatever you end up training on, and use that to guide your first bike decision.

Good luck.
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Wheezybiker
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say fuck em do your own thing but it might be worth remembering that these days it's down to bhp not cc

There are 500cc bikes that put out more bhp than some 600cc bikes so be aware of that
I'm sure there will be plenty of expert answers coming in but at the end of the day who is riding it you or your mates
Get the bike you want not the bike they want you to get
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezybiker wrote:
I would say fuck em do your own thing but it might be worth remembering that these days it's down to bhp not cc

There are 500cc bikes that put out more bhp than some 600cc bikes so be aware of that
I'm sure there will be plenty of expert answers coming in but at the end of the day who is riding it you or your mates
Get the bike you want not the bike they want you to get


This.

My 1250cc would get bummed by a 600RR. Buy what you like. Ignore them.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not what you've got, it's how you ride it. I used to get trounced by a guy on a GPz305 in the twisties when I had my GPZ750/1000RX.
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tom_e
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 600cc supersport is a very different beast to a 650cc SV, the SVs are great starter bikes I've been riding mine for 3 years now and it's been spot on. Currently looking at moving up to a Honda Blackbird, but more just because I can rather than anything being wrong with the SV.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should buy what you want to own and like the looks of most. Bikes are good, and 100-200cc up/down makes no difference to that, or how to ride one well.

Personally if I'm honest I'd have learned more about how to ride sooner if I'd had a year or so on a 500 like a CB etc, than I did going straight onto a 600, that I wasn't initially very comfortable on for a whole load of reasons.

Whatever bike you get you need experience and an environment to really learn how to ride it, and push it as hard as you feel comfortable with in every aspect. You ideally want something your not intimidated by or precious about too. Something that isn't a pride and joy but a tool.

You also need loads and loads of road miles, and experience of different situations, identifying risks, other road users probable intentions,planning your positioning and your reactions to hazards, and always looking for a way out of danger or the safest place to put yourself etc etc.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I started riding, a 5 was definitely a 'Big-bike'...
650's were 'LegBreakers' (usually when the points slipped and they kicked back when you tried starting them!) and anything bigger, was a sidecar hauler, and you might as well buy a car.
That sort of gives you an idea how long I have been in the game...
I ride a 750 and a 125.... the 750, is old, and only makes about 75bhp, which is plenty pokey enough for 99.9% of everything on UK roads... in fact, the 12.5 that the 125 probably is too.... it can better 70mph which is as fast as anything else is legally allowed to go in this country, and I face the same idiots on the road on that as I do the 750.. so its just as dangerous.... it IS rather more hard work to ride with so little power though, there's no room for error, you have to rag the crap out of it to make decent progress, and be totally committed.... to an asylum probably.... to things like 'corners' because it just dont have the stomp to make up anything you loose alomng the way...... Others find this 'frustrating'... I find it 'demanding' reward comes from effort... if it was easy, wouldn't be 'fun'... so I tend to ride the 125 a little more like a loon than I should..... BUT... point to point? Cross country, down a typical 6mph lane... I have come back from a meet with a fella on an FX600 getting a bit spirited... and then dispirited that he was hard on the brakes every yellow box and village with a 30 sign..... and not more than a few hundred yards ahead of me when he stopped at the T-Junction at the end... and I pulled aloing side him, before we found a gap, and trundled into the petrol station for supplies....

"Oh you'll get bored of {insert whatever you suggestion was}"

Heard it a million times before, and it is an ego statement, and more revealing of the rider than anything. Forty years at this lark, and I have yet to get bored by a bike... first off, its a mode of transport, not a mode of entertainment... you want entertainment, go tp a theme park or a cinema... of go do a track day or try real racing.... if you do.. playing at it on the road, will very quickly reveal its self to be as masturbation to real sex..... 'cos who cares? there's no [prizes for being the first in an ambulance, only penalties.... on track, you get lap times, you get placings you get result sheets, you KNOW whether you are going quick or doing well or not, not just kwik-frills and a story to brag of in the bar.....

ANY bike can be useful, if you have a use for it... commuting? Probably the most frustrating commuter I have ever had was my VF1000... not being able to open it up, having to hold it up at traffic lights, and scrubbing out expensive tyres and stretching expensive chains at an alarming rate,, when I could have been doing the exact same job on a C9 grinning every time I past a petrol station..... picking something unsuitable for the job can be as frustrating either way.

The FUN isn't in the bike.... its in you..... pick bike that best matc hes intended use, and expect to have to go look for the fun to get any... it aint a play-station that will serve it up on a button for you, you have to go find it.

And as said, being paranoid about GATSO boxes or plod hiding in hedges, worrying whetyher a herd of fresians have left a trail of enviromental waste round the next bend, as you try and get 'kneedown'... isn't really my idea of fun... just frustration...... Taking a day out to go see stuff, and NOT turn that into a blurr, stopping to take a photo, or have a coffeee, chat to some-one on another bike, or watching a band at a rally, or or or... that to me is 'fun'.... and dont require big cubes to do it.....

Neither actually does racing..... And folk in that game, oft say the same as me vis the 125's and other tiddler classes, the 'fun' is in thier LACK of ultimate performance, not thier excess of it... and some of them can get round a race track as fast as the bigguns... go check lap times!! Whilst ,my perversion for umpety decades has been on dirt, and 250cc has been more than adequete, even an old 250 with less than learner-legal horse-power!!!

Its ALL in what your aspirations and expectatiuons are, NOT the bike.... if you expect the bike to serve up fun on the button, it wont matter how big it is, it will only do it for a short time, and you'll hasve to find something different to serve up the drama you expect as you aclimatise to what it can do, and NEVER be happty with anything....

BUT here and now... all accademic... Bike is the last thing you need.... you need a licence first.... go do the learning, go get a licence, THEN maybe you can wporry about what may or may not be the better bike to go for.... and do some more learning...... probabvly that you WANT a bigger bike... cos cos cos..... whatever reason you convince yourself of.... and maybe after enthusiasm has lost its shine, you will get it, and understand that the 'fun' isn't proportional to the 'cubes'... but perhaps yopu have to go through the progression to get the apreciation... in which case, skipping teh progression and leaping straight to 600'fours or litre bikes, you will probably not get it, missing so much of it along the way....

But here and now?

You need a licence....

You DONT need fret about much else.

Dont ride your bends before you reach them, and dont rush... rushing be fast way to hurt on a motorbike.... one step at a time; go do the lessons.
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Val
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Re: This might sound stupid, but I need it clearing up Reply with quote

Guido wrote:

So yeah, I’ve been looking at bikes to buy for when I pass, I had my eyes on a few with the idea of starting on a small 500cc ish (cb500, er5 etc.) and building up as my skill level increases.

Thing is, i was out among a few bike riding folks and when I mentioned the plan they semi laughed and said “why don’t you get a proper bike, none of that 500 crap” and then proceeded to advise me to go for at least a 600cc (sv650, er6 etc)


Ignore them as already said here, there is great difference in riding experience between 600s too. Twin cylinders sv650 is completely different experience to inline four CBR600. Nothing wrong to have 500cc. Not to mention 500cc easily can give you 70 mpg.

Not to mention that classic motor but new bike Moto-Guzzi V7 has the power of modern 500 and is 750cc.

cc is irrelevant here you need to decide what you like to ride and how.

Enfield is 500cc and 27 bhp only, pretty sure you can enjoy that despite KTM 390 will eat it for breakfast anywhere.

Which reminds me try KTM 390. And few light off road bikes like HONDA CRF250L before you commit to pure road style bike. Who knows you may like dual off road/road or supermoto style riding more?

You will try few 600cc on the DAS training then you can compare what is to ride bike that weights 220kg vs one that weights 110kg.

Unless you try you'll never know.

Unless you really want to have long motorway trips or long adventures try avoiding heavy weight lumps over 250kg - they are fine for long trips where the weight makes them more comfty, but not my kind of bike.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's not a litre, you're a pussy.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A modern 650 is basically the beginner bike of choice. The 500s are pretty much training school only. Don’t confuse a 70bhp 650cc twin with a four cylinder 600 with 100bhp+.

A 650 twin isn’t massively more powerful than a 500cc twin, and I’d be happy to recommend one to pretty much any newbie. My GF has an ER6N and it’s soft as you like but can go quick with the right motivation and skill.

A 600 super sport needs to be thrashed and isn’t really meant to bumble about on. The 650 can bimble but can hustle a fair bit too. It’s just a better all round bet for a new rider than a 4 cylinder 600.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ Wot he said Thumbs Up ^^^
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll be doing your training and tests on a 595cc+ bike making at least 40kW.

In practice this means a 600 IL4, or more likely a 650 twin.

After you've done that, you'll be used to that size of bike and its power-torque-gearings. There's no reason not to get one.

You can drop down to a 500 or lower. They're perfectly usable. I worked my way up through the ranks, and currently run a 250 and a 20-ish hp 500 for giggles. But I also have a 70hp+ 800 in the garage which I don't ride any faster than the other two most of the time.

It's all good. You do you.

Just don't get a moderne supersportse 600 - too dangerouse.
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Guido
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 10 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Thanks guys. There’s loads of really useful info there

I’m intrigued by the supermoto idea too. I never gave it much thought I’ll have a look when the time comes and see what it’s all about.

There’s lots of food for thought here...

First things first though, you’re right, get the lessons done and get the test passed.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The size doesn't necessarily determine how the bike will ride, so it's not as simple as more cc = bigger more powerful bike.

What type of riding do you do? If you use a motorway/A road I'd stay away from a supermoto for example. Currently have the KTM 390, which is used exclusively for getting to work through a congested city centre. If the tank was bigger it would be pretty much perfect. However I wouldn't want to be doing any motorway journeys unless it was a couple of junctions and a one off.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Re: This might sound stupid, but I need it clearing up Reply with quote

Guido wrote:
i was out among a few bike riding folks and when I mentioned the plan they semi laughed and said “why don’t you get a proper bike, none of that 500 crap” and then proceeded to advise me to go for at least a 600cc (sv650, er6 etc)

What bikes have they got?
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pompousporcup...
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i could do my 'first proper bike' over again after owning a few already, i would get straight on a zzr1200 and not look back for 2 or 3 years.

do that.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very much a big bike aficionado. A 650 is an easy bike to ride especially after you have got used to the bikes at the school.

My wife went to a 600 divvy after passing her test on a 125 and never looked back, much preferred it to the small bike.

Don't over think it. If you are a car driver, would you worry about driving a 3 litre car rather than a 1.3 city car? You might take it a bit easy at first but that's it.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't regret starting out on a CBR600F.

Perfectly manageable lower in the rev range but has the capacity to go like a stabbed rat as you get more confident.
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G
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
If it's not a litre, you're a pussy.

On the contrary; if it IS a litre, you're a pussy Wink.
Easy to go fast with massive midrange and a first gear that well exceeds the speed limit.
Matching pace or going past a rider on that bike with a commuter twin is where the fun's at! Razz

MarJay wrote:
The 500s are pretty much training school only.

Not even that these days.
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bacon
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a cbr600f sport as my first bike, I wobbled about like a granny for a few weeks, a hornet would have been a better buy at that point, the riding position is nothing like the training bike I did my DAS on, a gs500. It was the riding position I struggled with to begin with more than the power.

If I was to do it all again, I'd buy a naked middleweight bike as a first bike, mt07, sv650, hornet, bandit, fazer, KTM 690, striple, that sort of thing, budget dependent.

Edit: yes I'm aware that list is a mix of a single, twins, triples and 4s. Test ride a few and go with what you prefer. Triple or twin would probably be where I'd go.
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stephen_o
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I don't think anyone else has picked up on this but you said at the begining that your commute is roughly 1 mile? That is really too short for a 500/600 bike which with a heavy lump to start and not getting warmed up will give you problems from week 1. If you do go down this route you will need to add miles elsewhere regular or get used to charging and oil changes.

May I suggest a 250 instead? I started out with a GPZ500 which as time went on developed a misfire if ran over 5k revs for more than a minute - I suspected air starvation/blocked breathers but was never able to sort it out. When the time came to change I wanted something lighter and easier to manage and based on the fact I hadn't used the GPZ over 5k and it had still run like a train I went for a YBR250 which is ideal for the short runs and will cope with longer ones although it does feel light at motorway speeds.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 11 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stephen_o wrote:
Hi, I don't think anyone else has picked up on this but you said at the begining that your commute is roughly 1 mile? That is really too short for a 500/600 bike which with a heavy lump to start and not getting warmed up will give you problems from week 1. If you do go down this route you will need to add miles elsewhere regular or get used to charging and oil changes.


Guido wrote:

I’d be using it for a bit of commuting which is only 1 mile either way, but mostly for A road and B road rides, possibly the odd motorway.


Shouldn't really be a problem.
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Guido
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PostPosted: 00:51 - 12 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

In answer to one of the questions,

One of the guys I was talking to had a ‘94 fireblade, one had a ‘03 hayabusa and one I think had a triumph tiger.

Personally I only wanted to get into riding because I love the sports bikes.
I’m big into cars and I’m a trained mechanic so I’m always tinkering. I have a 4x4 (a proper one) I’m always going off road or shifting stuff strapped to the roof rack or carrying people about.
So when I get a bike it’s really gonna be for me and my pleasure.

I love the the riding positions of sports bikes and some sports tourers, It maybe daft, but I would love a big fat back tyre (I know I know, until I have to replace one 😁)

I’d buy a car with my brain and my principles ( I will NOT drive a front wheel drive car). Unless it was a classic, then I’d get my heart involved
Whereas a bike would be completely the opposite. It’d be all heart.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t making a big mistake, I’ve taken all your comments on board so thanks again guys!
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 01:17 - 12 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're going to want a K6 GSX-R 750.

Thank me later.
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