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The_west |
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The_west Borekit Bruiser
Joined: 01 May 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 16:30 - 15 Jun 2018 Post subject: The dangers of motorcycling.....? |
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Hello all so, as some of you may be aware I'm a few days away from mod 1 and getting excited now, very much looking forward to getting some riding in!
Now obviously I've been getting the standard "be careful" "ride safely" "you'll die" "it's not you it's other drivers" which tbh there is an argument there, people really do drive like imbeciles.
I've been watching (quite morbid, I know) a lot of crash footage. Which as dark as you may think, I actually believe it helps. Seeing the actions and behaviours that lead to these kind of collisions and I see a recurring theme- in the vast, vast majority of cases I've seen, yes the car driver was at fault.
However, it also seems that in most of these cases the rider put themselves in a position to be affected by someone's poor judgement or lack of skill/awareness. Whether that be riding too fast, assuming someone will see you, filtering too fast etc.
So I guess what I'm trying to say, is how much of the supposed "dangers of motorcycling" can actually be mitigated by proper defensive riding, constantly assuming worst case scenario and riding as if you are invisible and everyone wants you dead...? ____________________ Grip it and rip it |
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arry |
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arry Super Spammer
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thx1138 |
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thx1138 World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 17:22 - 15 Jun 2018 Post subject: Re: The dangers of motorcycling.....? |
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Slightly less... idiomatically.
The_west wrote: | how much of the supposed "dangers of motorcycling" can actually be mitigated by proper defensive riding, constantly assuming worst case scenario and riding as if you are invisible and everyone wants you dead...? |
Most.
SMIDSY weave.
Don't try and "make eye contact" unless you're actually stopped in traffic. Us social monkeys fool ourselves into thinking that a face girning in our general direction is trying to convey a message. It's possible that it's looking right through us though. It's the vehicle that'll hit you, so watch its front wheels. This is harden than you'd think to actually do, you'll need to make a conscious effort not to monkey around.
Ride well out in your lane. Approaching junctions, I ride nearly at the divider. It gives you more options.
Minimise time exposed to danger. This means don't sit right behind a car trying to get past (it can probably outbrake you) and when you start to go past, get past. Doubly so if you're doing some hooky undertake of an HGV driven by a KTM rider. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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The Shaggy D.A. |
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The Shaggy D.A. Super Spammer
Joined: 12 Sep 2008 Karma :
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Posted: 18:48 - 15 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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I've smashed my tibia and fibula, and also had a brain injury.
On both occasions, I was nowhere near a motorcycle. ____________________ Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5 |
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Howling Terror |
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Howling Terror Super Spammer
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 19:57 - 15 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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Most of them... is short answer.
There are folks on here that have been riding forty or more years,and are still alive and in one piece... a motor bike licence is not an express ticket to the Critical Care wing of local blood suckers.
Maxim to remember is "Safety is IN your head, not what you put ON it"
You cannot buy safety, only think it. Common sense, hazard awareness, and a keen sense of your own mortality, not crash hats leathers, hi~vis and airbag underwear!
Your observation that in crash clips, the biker almost always put themselves in a possition a crash could happen, and could have done 'something' is an acute one... in almost all crash scenarios they could... Cant say that every accident is avoidable, though, but, in an awful lot a lot could have been helped.
Old addage is to ride like they are ALL out to get you..... is I think unfair if not unreasonable.
Standards of driving are on the whole pretty dire, but I dont think there are all that many car drivers that want to kill bikers... except perhaps Jeramy Clarkson....
They are, simply more concerned with thier little hermetically sealed world inside a box, and not so clued up on what's going on outside it; many dont drive thier own roads, subliminally they take thier queue from what the car imedietly infront is doing, and they brake when its brake lights come on, not when they have seen a corner coming....
This is actually so engrained, that I do wonder how many people follow other cars down off ramps at motorways, or round one way systems, playing follow my leader rather than actually driving for themselves.... Roger... can you find any stats on that?
Tendency to tailgate.... is another endemic issue; stand on a pavememt or grass verge somewhere and try count the gaps between cars and how many are anywhere near near the two second rule.... i doubt it will be many, and on a busy by pass or motorway, it is almost impossible to hold.... try it in a car! You leave a 2 second gap, and someone will jump into it, pretty quick!!!
For bikes, this is a problem new bikers will face, because not only will other traffic be inclined to tailgate them, on a bike, they will be watching the riders back... and not in the good way..... because its the largest and most recognisable 'plane' in thier vision. That shortens thier following distance by however much bike there is behind riders bum, for starters, then the gap they do leave, wont be as big as it should.... and new rider... now most used to driving a car before getting on a bike, sees the following car in thier mirrors, and the perspective is even more compressed because the mirrors are close to thier face, the angle higher, and they too, look not at 'car' in the mirror, but at the following drivers face.... which shrinks the gap by the length of car infront of the steering wheel, and it seems to the rider that the following car is even closer than it is.... and sense of vulnerability, lack of metal around them, tarmac in view beneath feet, magnifies more the 'feeling' that they are in danger, more that following driver is the one piutting them in it.
THEN... rider, (and many car drivers too} are intimidated by close following car..... Natural Hard Wiring of our brain, is that we DO NOT like things following us.... it's probably a T~Rex or a lion or something that wants to eat us..... so we tend to over inflate the danger of something behind... we cant see it so well, and it must be a predator...
And we can do daft things in the fight or flee reaction we naturally have to it.... and we start letting THAT obviouse and known danger of a close following car start influencing our actions more greatly than.... oh the traffic lights we are coming up to?!? diverting attension to them, and magnifying the percieved hazard even more, rather than thinking "OK, I have idiot behind, there's always an idiot behind... spotted this one... SO where are all the OTHERS? and wathcing out for the UNSEEN hazards that are likely a LOT more of one, especially if we are paying undue attention to one we have already spotted and are fixating over.
And you hear it a lot; "Well it was a 6o mph road, and I had this people carrier up my ass.. so I tried to go qo quicker to make some space between us..." {Particularly from folk riding 125's, esp chinky 125's that often wont go 6o}
THAT is the point that you are letting the OTHER DRIVER make YOUR decissions.... and if someone else if making them, they are in control, not you.... and that means long long before you might crash, you are OUT of control... you are not riding, you are letting someone else do your driving.... and they ent the one likely to get hurt by it.
Very hard to deal with... and theres no right or wrong answer; in that sort of scenario, the first thing is to recognise it, and just NOT let them influence what you do.... ride your own road, stuff~em.... "Yah but! they started weaving, and trying to get past, and REALLY riding on my number plate!!!"
Yes you can easily antagonise other drivers.... B~U~T key is recognising Not~My~Problem... and not making other drivers problems YOURS. which probably is the tricky bit....
But starts, staying in control, and that means before all else SELF control, not letting the red~mist rule, riding for frills, or being over cautious, riding like a granny, or letting other traffic unduly influence your thinking. think for yourself.... stay in control... SELF control.. ah Wax~hon, Wax~hoff, young gwass~hoppa....sort of stuff.
Both when dealing with the legion numpties already on our roads, but, also keeping the devil on your shoulder in check....
Big bit of the stats, IS made up by bikes, and a large chunk of those by the fact that biking attracts thrill seekers, and more these days, week~end warrior types, riding 'for fun' in thier leisure time, probably with another way to get to work, a lot of the natural inhibitors they might have to being soooo daft aleviated, and actively LOOKING for that adrenaline surge, on a bike, on public road.... so no wonder they have 'accidents' really.
But, keep that devil in check, keep your cool, ride your own road, no reason you should help them add to the stats really....
NO, it may not be 'fun'.... but then neither is fixing bent bikes, or getting them home, or peeling clingfilm off roadrash and leg hairs that grow under the glue, every other day down the clinnic..... Now WHY should THAT one spring so readily to mind?
So, yeah.... YOUR safety on a bike, IS so much down to you... and it IS possible to have a long and healthy riding carreer without too much incident... I you use your head, and dont just stick it in a plastic pot and think you have the matter covered. you keep your cool, you stay in control, you let neither the devil egg you on, or the angel make you paranoid, and you DO NOT let other people, in cars, or on forums, or anywhere else ride your bike for you.
Biggest danger on the roads.... is YOU.... do what you will with that nugget of notion. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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WmY |
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WmY Renault 5 Driver
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Chuffin Nora |
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Chuffin Nora World Chat Champion
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stephen_o |
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The Shaggy D.A. |
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The_west |
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The_west Borekit Bruiser
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 21:39 - 16 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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That is one of the advantages of 125s: they don't inculcate you with a sense of real ultimate power.
Just retain that attitude when you move onto a bigger bike, but add the knowledge that you can accelerate out of or through a tight spot a lot more sharply as well, and you should be fine. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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The_west |
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The_west Borekit Bruiser
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recman |
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recman World Chat Champion
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stephen_o Spanner Monkey
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WmY |
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WmY Renault 5 Driver
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 06:24 - 17 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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recman wrote: | I see the horn has been mentioned a couple of times.
I can't actually remember having used mine for what it's meant to be used for. |
First fail, right there, before you have even got on the bike, you are letting other people make your riding decissions for you, not applying self control......
If you want a big bike, fair play... but do it because you want to, not because someone else does......
Plus, is it the 125 or an L~plate that's the issue here?
Many full licence holders ride learner legals for variouse reasons; for me the 'fun' in them is actually thier lack of performance, and a lot more than the shear excess of bigger bikes... for other's its the cheaps they can offer, for more, the simple fact that they dont beg being taken so seriousely.
Ridicule of little bikes is a predjudice that says more of the aspirations of the ridiculer and thier narrow horizons than it does of tiddler rider... 125's can go as fast as anything else is legally allowed on UK roads and break just as many speed limits and road laws, whilst facing just the same number of idiots and other road hazards, and without the comfort zone of mass to make bike more stable and less want to step out from under you whilst you do it..... ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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The_west |
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The_west Borekit Bruiser
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Polarbear |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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recman |
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recman World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:34 - 17 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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Teflon-Mike wrote: | recman wrote: | I see the horn has been mentioned a couple of times.
I can't actually remember having used mine for what it's meant to be used for. |
First fail, right there, before you have even got on the bike, you are letting other people make your riding decissions for you, not applying self control......
If you want a big bike, fair play... but do it because you want to, not because someone else does......
Plus, is it the 125 or an L~plate that's the issue here?
Many full licence holders ride learner legals for variouse reasons; for me the 'fun' in them is actually thier lack of performance, and a lot more than the shear excess of bigger bikes... for other's its the cheaps they can offer, for more, the simple fact that they dont beg being taken so seriousely.
Ridicule of little bikes is a predjudice that says more of the aspirations of the ridiculer and thier narrow horizons than it does of tiddler rider... 125's can go as fast as anything else is legally allowed on UK roads and break just as many speed limits and road laws, whilst facing just the same number of idiots and other road hazards, and without the comfort zone of mass to make bike more stable and less want to step out from under you whilst you do it..... |
Thanks Tef.
My riding style usually includes everyone else going backwards but I'll bare all this in mind if I ever go back to a 125.
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 286 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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