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Mod 1 U turn advice - Foot off peg ok?

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Jimiller99
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Mod 1 U turn advice - Foot off peg ok? Reply with quote

Hi

I'll be taking my Mod 1 soon and have been practicing what I need to do. I feel fine doing everything except a U turn. I understand what needs to be done and have been practicing on industrial estate side roads at night.

However every time my inside foot hovers off the peg and out to the side slightly (like a mini doctor's dangle). I know you can't dab your foot but can't find any information whether this is ok or not? Will i fail doing this?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah quite possibly you'll fail. Or at least, it's probably wise to assume the examiner'll be fussy, and want it done in the usual way.
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bigdom86
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PostPosted: 16:14 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: re Reply with quote

unsure if its a fail unless you touch the floor, although examiner may say you aren't in proper control of bike and fail you, wouldn't do it
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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a fail. However, as said above, it isn't recommended in case you do touch foot down. If you're in control of the bike then it's fine, (it's how I u-turn my enduro).
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NJD
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do u-turn like this, yo (11:30 if it doesn't start there automatically).

All u-turns are to the right so you only ever need to practice those, regardless of what way the test pad you go around.

In terms of technique I'd probably keep the foot on the peg, firmly, to avoid the possibility of allowing the examiner to say you weren't in control of the bike; although, in theory, should only be an issue if you wobble or put your foot down but examiners so meh.. who knows.
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Re: Mod 1 U turn advice - Foot off peg ok? Reply with quote

Jimiller99 wrote:
However every time my inside foot hovers off the peg and out to the side slightly (like a mini doctor's dangle).
You're Marc Marquez and I claim five ponds. INB4 back of the grid start.
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P.
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just keep your foot on the peg? Easy fix.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Re: Mod 1 U turn advice - Foot off peg ok? Reply with quote

Jimiller99 wrote:
Will i fail doing this?

That's a matter opinion.

If the examiner is impressed with everything else about you and your riding then you could be lucky and your foot being off the peg would only be marked down as a minor.

I wouldn't want to bet on that though as you are generally meant to keep your feet on the footpegs and it doesn't look good if you won't / don't or can't do that.
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Jimiller99
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice all. I've found that lifting my foot slightly is the best way for me to do it as it helps my balance. It seems to be one of those things when I keep my foot on, I over-think it and mess up. Looks like I better go practice. Thanks all!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 21 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimiller99 wrote:
I've found that lifting my foot slightly is the best way for me to do it as it helps my balance.

What you're doing by raising your inside foot is raising the centre of gravity (bad) and leaning your weight to the outside against the way the bike wants to tip (bad form, lack of confidence).

Try actually using the rear brake instead of taking your foot off the peg. It's not necessary, but it does help
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 01:45 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume you are practicing on your own bike, therefore 125.

Modern teaching for slow-speed maneuvers including U-Turn, I HATE, but involved drag and slip... using higher revs on the throttle, slipping the clutch to under-drive the gearbox, and holding bike back on the back brake..... HOW would you hold back on the back brake, if your foot isn't on the right hand peg?

Correctly seated.... at all times... or a fail (depending how harsh man with clip-board be)

SO whether fail or not, its NOT good form, dont teach yourself to do it or try get away with it.

HEAD UP, where you look is where you go.

Tricks....

Dont start your turn too early......

Biggest fail with U-Turn is you look where you want to go.... and bike goes there.... so you drift towards the center of your road, before you start, then start running out of road, and trying to tighten the turn the whole while.... fixate on the fact you are running out of road, look at the kerb... and go even wider! Hover foot, and bang down, to stop toppling.

JINK LEFT, to go RIGHT!

Sounds stupid, BUT... before starting your turn, look the WRONG way, check full width of space you have, and when you start the turn, jink LEFT first to get the bike over as far as you can and give yourself most width to do the 'U' which, if you do it right, should be more of a bell-flask shape.

Now, you have made that jink, the 'flick' to the right should give you full room for your turn, and turning to the left, will mean that the turn to the right, comes more naturally as a progression of straightening up from the quick left at the start, the bike will just carry on tilting through the upright as you turn to the right, and bring you into the right hand turn, with most space, and most steer already done, so you have most room, and less steering to do the other half of the turn.

DONT fixate, on the space you have, look where you want to go, and almost as soon as you have tipped in to right hand turn, DONT look where you are, or where you are going, look where you WANT TO BE... as you look over your shoulder to the right, your shoulders will twist that way, your arms will pull bars that way, you will GO that way, and you will complete the turn almost without any conciouse thought.

KEEP FEET ON THE PEGS!

Even if you dont use drag and slip, makes it look like you could.... if little else, but foot is over back brake....

Yeah.... bang down the boot... fantastic, bike dont fall over.... instead you clubber the back of your shin with the ruddy footpeg.. you are STILL as want to go over and down.... but bike will still be moving! So what do you do? Grab the front! Now front locks, back caries on moving, forks twist and you go down in a tangle and it gets messy! So JUST dont do it!

Keep your feet on the pegs!

Bike will go round, and IF you run out of road, DONT PANIC.... use back brake; make safe stop, and shove bike back-wards and do a 3-point rather than a U... OK wont pass you a bike test.... but wont cost you a new mirror and brake lever either!

contentious trick... COUNTER LEAN..... bikes tilt-to-turn.... roll a tuppence down a table, as it starts to tip, it starts to turn, more it tips tighter the turn it makes...... this is how bikes steer too.

More bar-steer you use to make a turn, the more upright you hold the bike, the more disadvantageous the geometry, as the steering wants to 'self center' and straighten up.

Going slow, you will be loath to lean the bike, for fear of falling over; feels you dont have the speed to hold bike up... so tendency is to try hold bike more upright, and turn bars more.

BUT, do that, and you have to turn bars more, more the bike will 'fight' you trying to straighten that bar steer, and so you get into a cycle, of trying to turn the bars more and more, and hold bike upright, and you dont turn, you run out of road, and end up in a tangle on the floor.

Rules say you should keep your arse in the saddle..... I know... this was how I failed my 'part one' test, thirty years ago.....*... but you DONT have to shift your bum of the saddle to lean the wrong way... you have a waste... you can tilt your upper body from above it.... As you do so.... first bike will lean beneath you and turn tighter... second you will, leaning upper body to the left, naturally push on left bar, pull on right and tighten the bar steer... Take note... folk trying this for the first time, will make a MUCH tighter turn than they expect, and panick, trying to compensate...... be warned.

Its a completely DIFFERENT way of tackling a U-Turn, so as Yoda "Unlearn you must", get the old way out your brain, and practice, practice, practice, NOT doing it badly.

- Jink to the left, make room
- Hinge from the waste, LEAN the bike
- LOOK where you want to be


Whole maneuver will fall naturally into sequence, bike will turn very very tightly, and with a LOT less effort than trying to hold it bolt upright and do it all on the bars, and it WONT fall over.. it will go round, and sweetly, with feet on the pegs, covering back brake either to use Drag'n'(effing!)Slip, if expected, or not.... BUT without hanging a boot, which even IF examiner doesn't give insta-fail for on grounds you are not correctly seated or in full control, WILL display lack of confidence, and incline them to a fail there or elsewhere on test.

LAST thing, 99% of riding a bike is in the throttle. Not turning the bars, not leaning, not using the brakes, its all in the right wrist.

Get up some speed BEFORE you try and maneuver; gets you balanced; roll off, and jink left and reverse to right, the rolling off will de-settle the bike to help you steer, you aren't fighting it from the off; as you have tipped into the U, get on the throttle.... GENTLY... use the throttle to drive you round rather than coast; seems counter intuitive to a slow speed maneuver, but its making the bike work for you rather than against; as you pass the mid point, you can use more throttle, this will naturally make the bike both drive round the U, and try and sit up, you WONT have anywhere near the sensation of 'toppling' that makes you want to hang a boot, and it will make the bike go stable, and go round, not drift wide.

Its all on the throttle; exploit it**.

~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~

** Slow-Speed lean anecdote: I absolutely scared the hell out of a forum member here a few years ago, taking him round a Car-Park, pillion, scraping the foot-pegs of a 125 doing 'slow-speed' CBT/Mod 1 manouvers, like this, on the throttle, and leaning the bike.

It is incredible just how slow you can go, and how far you can lean, with just a little balence, even with a scared shitless lump wobbling about on the bunny convinced you are going to topple, trying to lean the other way....

Find a car park, and try it, (Without the pillion, is probably best for starters Laughing ) practice it, learn how far you CAN lean a bike, and just how slow IF you do it on the throttle.

Most of your reason for hanging a boot is purely lack of confidence, NOT believing that the bike will stay up; and trying to 'practice' the things you are doing, 'wrong' to pander to that sensation, will only ingrain them; so go unlearn, learn how far you can lean and how slow you can do it, to get past that inhibitor trhat is making you do it wrong or badly, to re-train your brain to do it right, and get the confidence to do it right, and NOT have any question marks hanging over test.

* Bum in Saddle anecdote; I took tests before the split Mods. We didn't have CBT either, we could wobble out on the road with no more than filling a form at the post office.... which was something of an aptitude test in itself back then! But still.

Before booking a motorcycle test, we had to pass the 'Part 1' which was sort of like a 'tested' CBT, that included things like the slalom and U-Turn.

I had been doing school boy trials for some time, and the 'school' I did my part 1 with, shared a bit of the old BSA factory, where Vale-Onslow has set up a sort of motorbike youth club and trials course, to keep kids from hacking nicked bikes down the canal.... it was right by the canal, and most of the bikes, I discovered were nicked! but donated to the club by West-Mids police, when they couldn't find the owners! Laughing

But, having done trials there, seemed a good idea, after much trecking around the county looking for motorbikes on Sunday mornings in Woolies car-parks and other obscure places for one of these mythical 'Part One' schools.... like I said, was more an aptitude test than a motorcycle one, in them days! Seemed a good idea to use this place next door to the trials park; not least 'cos they hired Honda H100's to do it on... and I figured I could save buying a 125 testing on their school bikes, and then riding one of my 250's on the road.

Honda H100's have a peculiarly small frame... I am a lanky git, at 6'2"ish.. I dont have a particularly dainty frame... trying to do the manouvers on a H100 was then something of a double challenge, I couldn't turn the bars more than a few degrees without my knees getting in the way... even if I slid back on the saddle to the pillion seat.... there was some muttering when I eventually passed about my 'unorthodox' riding position, and whether, after giving up, and doing the cone-slalom, trials style, stoof on the pegs, on the back-wheel, lust sort of dropping the front between each pair.... and told, patiently "You are NOT supposed to be in full control if your arse isn't in the saddle.... and BOTH Effing tyres are on the effing FLOOR!" Lol. When the on the last attempt, slid all the way back onto the pillion, with barely my ballsack over the pillion seat and the tail lamp trying to give me an enema, whether this 'counted' as having my bum on the saddle! I did keep effing tyres on effing floor, BTW... for some reason they really likes that, and wouldn't yeild on the point!

ANYWAY... remember bikes is built to tilt, and they tilt to turn, and 99% of riding one is in the throttle. Stop practicing doing it at best, badly, at worst 'wrong', go practice doing it RIGHT, and use tips provided to do that a bit better, if you want to.
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Jimiller99
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all/ Tried it last night and slowly getting the hang of it, think it's more of a confidence thing and i was overthinking it.

Thanks all!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's easy to get into bad habits, or to imagine that some ritual is necessary because you did it the first half dozen times and didn't fall off. I'd snap yourself out of this one sharpish though, at least for test purposes.
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The_west
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't say anything that the others haven't said, like you've realised it's a practice/confidence/technique thing. Try practicing it in less space than you're given in your exam- I just passed mod 1 a few days ago with just one minor (e stop speed trap I hit at 47kph first time) and my instructor had me doing the maneuvers with less space, cones closer etc. When I got the test centre I couldn't believe how much space I had lol
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember two life savers, one as you set off and one just before you turn.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

did tef say tidy feet


please someone let me know Shocked Very Happy Very Happy
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 22 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
Remember two life savers, one as you set off and one just before you turn.


Aye; to clarify, though, that's a life saver over the left and right shoulder before moving anywhere and then a right shoulder check shortly before you turn -- imitating that if you were on the roads you'd be checking to ensure the path you wish to ride is free from hazards.

Perform a shoulder check over your left and right before moving away at all times during the Module One test; anytime you stopped dead you shoulder check before you move away but shoulder checks after you stop are not needed.

A theme you'll want to continue on your Module Two, mind; I got a "why on earth were you performing a life saver there when clearly it's not what you've been taught and it wasn't needed.." on my first A2 > A fail debrief but you can't receive faults for over checking.

Out on the road it's a little harder to say when you should and shouldn't shoulder check, and that's a bit ahead in time, but doesn't hurt to get into the habit of a quick look over each shoulder while the lights are on amber, after being red, or waiting for a car two ahead to pull away before you start checking; heck on my first A2 > A attempt I even used the shadow in the road ahead to gauge when the cars ahead were moving away and it was time to check giving me enough time to pull away -- and I still failed <sadface.jpg>

It's all a game, mind, and the one thing the instructor said in front of me after the other guy passed, on my second attempt, and I didn't was "what he said about advance training... teaches you to stop riding like a learner;" saying that, though, he didn't really agree with my viewpoint that the entire learning levels are counter productive -- in that they all tell you to do something the level below it doesn't. In summary get your license and crack on doing whatever keeps you on the bike and everyone else alive; I literally give up pretending training schools mean sod all and that the licensing system is anything but a farse.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:30 - 23 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyscooter wrote:
did tef say tidy feet

I believe the phrase is "neet feat".

And no.

There may be a follow through coming.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 24 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyscooter wrote:
did tef say tidy feet

Rogerborg wrote:

I believe the phrase is "neet feat".
And no.
There may be a follow through coming.

Ste wrote:
No.

Ste took the word out of my browser, and you did the rest, Rog.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 02 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

i still actively avoid doing u-turns, unless its a nice wide road.

first to admit i suck at them. lucky for me i dont have to do one ever if i dont want..

for me its like having your hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel of a car. once you pass your test youll never need to.
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