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Brake pads too tight after fluid change

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BananaLover
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 08 May 2017
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Brake pads too tight after fluid change Reply with quote

Yamaha dragstar 650, 1999.

So I noticed immediately that there is a weird noise coming from front of my bike, at first I thought maybe theres a small piece of gravel stuck between brake pads or something (by the sound) but that was impossible because there was no room for it. I removed the wheel today and found it difficult to get brakes off, they were really tight, and compared to a video I saw some guy doing the same thing, after the two initial bolts it just came right off.

So seems like I fucked up, but I think the noise was there a day before I changed the fluid, but maybe it was something else. Is this how it's supposed to look like? https://imgur.com/a/MkyaYVx

It looks like scratched metal, not like sand paper when I look for replacement pads.

Does it make sense if I added too much fluid or not enough? Maybe the wrong fluid? Thsi is the stuff that I used

I've never changed brake pads or fluid, I've had the bike for one year.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 17:26 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um it looks to me that you don't have any brake pad material left and you've actually been braking on the brake pad backing body. This will scratch the hell out of your brake discs.

https://imgur.com/a/MkyaYVx

Take a look at this picture:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31E39HUE1RL.jpg

There simply is no meat left on your pads and they're worn past their useful limit... back in the day this could happen with certain brands of brake pad where the material was either counterfeit or there were manufacturing defects.

Also your brake pistons are quite dirty.

What you need to do now is the following:

Buy new brake pads.

Possibly buy new seals (I've simply put them back in more than a few times).

Remove old pads.

Clean the brake pistons. This can be done in two ways. You can pump the pistons by pressing the brake a little so they're exposed. Then clean them up and push them back in a bit. Or you can pop the pistons by simply pressing the brake until the hydralic pressure pushes them out (watch for brake fluid splash). Then clean the entire caliper change the seals and put pistons back in with your thumbs.

Then put the brake pads in and the brake pad pins.

Then put the wheel back on and brake disc between the pads.

NOW you bleed the brakes you'll hear a creeking when it is nearly complete and the brake material (not the pad body) will sit flush with the brake disc.

If you're near Manchester I can help you do this.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

'kin hell, you deserve whatever Tef is typing.

Have you rekt your disc, is what I'd be wondering. Got any pictures of that?
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

In short:
Yes you have fucked up.
You'd have been better off changing the pads before they wore down so much rather than fluid.
Now you need a new disc and pads but at least you don't need
new brake fluid eh?

Apart from giving the calipers jolly good clean
you may want to check the pistons are not rusty

Heres the narsty pic
https://i.imgur.com/9yQKzhk.jpg
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 20:11 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most pointless maintenance ever:

Change brake fluid but leave obviously worn down to the metal brake pads. Hey, if you gonna die, you might as well die with new brake fluid eh? Smile
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 20:17 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop.


You literally have no idea what you are doing.

Take it to a garage, before you kill yourself or someone else.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 20:21 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

New bike time. Thumbs Up
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BananaLover
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn you guys are ruthless. I changed brake fluid because it was getting dark and I figured it's about time, no other reason. Only after realising where the noise was coming from I took off the brakes to see whats up. Because it wasn't making any noise while rolling the bike but only while riding relatively fast (with helmet) could I hear it, and it was hard to locate the source. I'm a relatively new rider, I didn't even I can tear through my brake pads like this. Fuck. Hope I can still use the brake disc, it is a bit scratched. https://imgur.com/a/kyCJyhi it alwasy had some lines on it though, not as deep however.

Thanks for the offer Itchy, that's very nice of you. I'm not near you though, I'll watch a few videos and try to do it myself. I'll roll into the shop once I'm done and ask the guys do they think I need a new disc. Thank you for the instructions.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

That disc will chew through any pads you put in it.
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Op's tyres be like






https://oztoice.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/los-rider-advrider.jpg

"thought I better put some new air in"


Last edited by J4mes on 15:42 - 14 Jul 2018; edited 1 time in total
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaLover wrote:
I changed brake fluid because it was getting dark and I figured it's about time, no other reason.


If you really want to do things by the book, then you should change the fluid every 2 years, regardless of the milage. The change in colour, although suspicious, does not tell you a thing about the condition of the fluid, unless you were boiling it for a long period of time.

The issue with brake fluid is, that it absorbs moisture. That moisture than may corrode the insides of your brake system and also boils at 100°C, unlike the DOT 4 which boils at 8 times that or so.

Oh, and when you decide to replace the brake pads, do not just stick new pads in. Clean all the rust and crud, so the pads move freely. Also check the caliper pistons are not seized.

EDIT: Before you stuff new pads in, remove the brake fluid reservoir cap and remove some of the brake fluid if necessary. The way the fluid level works is, MAX notch = fresh rotors + pads; MIN notch = worn pads. As you changed the fluid with worn pads, and being a good mechanic you topped it to the MAX notch, you're going to have way too much fluid in the system and might even not be able to push the caliper pistons back in. Also, if you won't be able to push the pistons back in with you bare hands, then there is something wrong. It is advisable to clean the pistons before you push them back in.

BananaLover wrote:
Hope I can still use the brake disc, it is a bit scratched. https://imgur.com/a/kyCJyhi it alwasy had some lines on it though, not as deep however.

It looks alright and the fresh pads will adapt to the surface of the rotor. You may check the thickness, but it doesn't seem too worn. The scoring however is there for life, which isn't really an issue.
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Last edited by RhynoCZ on 23:12 - 13 Jul 2018; edited 4 times in total
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 13 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaLover wrote:
Hope I can still use the brake disc, it is a bit scratched. https://imgur.com/a/kyCJyhi it alwasy had some lines on it though, not as deep however.


Perhaps sir would like to look at the servicemanual and at least look at the checks that should be carried out periodically?

The chaps in the shop will tell you you need a new disk.

Personally, I'd check the thickness of the disk before deciding what to do. As chris-red says, new pads will wear faster than normal with that metal-smeared disk, however given the relative cost of the components, it might be worth reconditioning/letting them recondition the surface, if what's left is thick enough.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 00:03 - 14 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen worse disks. I'd just stick a new set of pads in.

Half decent disks are about £85 a piece. A set of pad are about £20.
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Courier265
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 14 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaLover wrote:
Damn you guys are ruthless.


Could be worse, Paddy could of replied.... or even Teflon whatsit Laughing



To be honest, chris-red is spot on, TAKE IT TO A SHOP....
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 00:25 - 14 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Courier265 wrote:
BananaLover wrote:
Damn you guys are ruthless.


Could be worse, Paddy could of replied.... or even Teflon whatsit Laughing



To be honest, chris-red is spot on, TAKE IT TO A SHOP....


So he should give up? Bollocks to that.

To OP. You realised that there was a problem, and took steps to gain knowledge.

Carry on. As a hint, you'll find that the pistons are never straight in the calliper and when you are using your waterpump pliers to push them back it helps to try different points on the piston.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 02:06 - 14 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bananalover
Dont feel too bad, you're not the first to do that y'know
and you might get away with using that disc if its just radial scoring
that's not too deep with no chunks.

As Nobby says, if you do it yourself you'll save money and learn.
Go to the garage all you'll learn is how to spend money.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 02:11 - 14 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

No point asking a shop as the sales guy will try to sell you a new disc. Laughing

I'd also try and sell you some braided hoses.
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BananaLover
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 16:04 - 17 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to the guys who gave me tips not cheekey responses, with your kinds of attitude a person seeking help wouldn't dare asking.

Courier265 wrote:

To be honest, chris-red is spot on, TAKE IT TO A SHOP....

Rather learn to do things myself thank you very much.

Ste wrote:
No point asking a shop as the sales guy will try to sell you a new disc. Laughing

It's not a random shop, I know the guy a little, he's gonna give me a fair opinion.

RhynoCZ wrote:
BananaLover wrote:
I changed brake fluid because it was getting dark and I figured it's about time, no other reason.


If you really want to do things by the book, then you should change the fluid every 2 years, regardless of the milage.

Yeah, well as I said I've owned it for a year, don't have a clue when was the last time it was changed.

RhynoCZ wrote:
Remove some of the brake fluid if necessary. As you changed the fluid with worn pads, and you topped it to the MAX notch.

Right, that makes sense. I did indeed fill it full, now I'll know.

Riejufixing wrote:

Personally, I'd check the thickness of the disk before deciding what to do

It looks as thick to me as it always has. What thickness am I looking for? Here's a different angle: https://i.imgur.com/KyOML4X.jpg
It doesn't do the justice to the scratches though, they are a bit rigid.

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

Carry on. As a hint, you'll find that the pistons are never straight in the calliper and when you are using your waterpump pliers to push them back it helps to try different points on the piston.

Thanks for the tip, I'm currently waiting for the brake pads to come in, and I'll follow a youtube tutorial for the whole process.

The guy in the video talked about using copper grease and some other grease for pivits, without going into detail. Is there a specific grease I need here? I have copper grease and Silkolene Pro RG2 Grease already.
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supZ
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 17 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaLover wrote:
Thanks to the guys who gave me tips not cheekey responses, with your kinds of attitude a person seeking help wouldn't dare asking.


We may be tough on you, but we'll never lie to you Wink

No sugar coating on BCF.

Whilst I believe it's great to 'have a go' be sure to do some research first. The internet is full of guides and images on how to do virtually anything. Better still, buy a haynes or clymer manual.

BananaLover wrote:

Right, that makes sense. I did indeed fill it full, now I'll know.

Case in point. Reading that you just filled your brake res. to full could very easily lead to your death. As you brake the fluid temp. increases and expands. If you were to brake hard with no room for it to expand your brakes could lock on, lock your wheel up and down you go.. at speed. Happened to a friend on track, broke his ankle as the brakes suddenly locked on. Combination of too much fluid and fresh pads with a lot of meat on them.

This is a machine you'll be travelling reasonably fast on. Be sure any work you're doing is right and it's mechanically sound before riding... it's only your life you know..

Never let the fluid be over the max mark on the res. Remember to check it when you change your pads as you might have to drain some out ones you have pads with err.. some friction material on Very Happy
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Islander
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 17 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaLover wrote:


The guy in the video talked about using copper grease and some other grease for pivits, without going into detail. Is there a specific grease I need here? I have copper grease and Silkolene Pro RG2 Grease already.


A light smear of copper grease on the back of the new pads. Use the other grease sparingly on the slider pins. Invest in a tin of brake cleaner and a toothbrush and clean all that crap off too. Especially the pistons. Thumbs Up
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McJamweasel
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 17 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disc looks fine. Don't learn brakes on your own though, get a mate (or a local BCFer) to guide you.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 17 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaLover wrote:
The guy in the video talked about using copper grease and some other grease for pivits,


Don't put copper grease (or any other grease) on your pads. Especially if you don't know what you're doing. There's significant potential to go piling into a hedge

Sliders/Pins, you need a *tiny* bit of grease to keep them lubricated, or they'll lock in position.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 17 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
BananaLover wrote:


The guy in the video talked about using copper grease and some other grease for pivits, without going into detail. Is there a specific grease I need here? I have copper grease and Silkolene Pro RG2 Grease already.


A light smear of copper grease on the back of the new pads.


What for? Thinking
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 17 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Islander wrote:


A light smear of copper grease on the back of the new pads.


What for? Thinking


Prevents squeal - it's only on the back of the pad that engages with the pistons and it's only a light smear that's needed. Smile
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Courier265
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 17 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:


Prevents squeal - it's only on the back of the pad that engages with the pistons and it's only a light smear that's needed. Smile


and it really works too, also the lugs which go into the metal doofer are worth a touch of copper grease.
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