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Sweaty_Doughnut |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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Sweaty_Doughnut |
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WD Forte |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:14 - 15 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Fuck that shit. For £80 just buy a new one. (Is £80 new, or a second hand price?)
Then sell your old one for £40 to someone that can easily remove it (profit?). ____________________ My Flickr
Last edited by Wafer_Thin_Ham on 17:15 - 15 Jul 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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Sweaty_Doughnut |
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Sweaty_Doughnut Nova Slayer
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Sweaty_Doughnut |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham Super Spammer
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Sweaty_Doughnut |
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Sweaty_Doughnut Nova Slayer
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Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:19 - 15 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Buy brand new one, sell old fucked one on ebay for 10 ponds (profit?).[/quote]
I think I might go for that solution. I wanted to hear opinions here and maybe if someone can say their opinion on using carbide on dremmel[/quote]
My opinion would be that for £80 I couldn't be arsed dicking around with carbide drills, possibly ballsing it up, then spending £80 anyway. ____________________ My Flickr |
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Sweaty_Doughnut |
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Sweaty_Doughnut Nova Slayer
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Dave.... |
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Dave.... Trackday Trickster
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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
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Posted: 20:17 - 15 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Find someone with a welder, tape up the outside of the welding rod, set it for about 40 amps and dump the rod directly end-first on the top of the broken hex key until it shorts. It'll be stuck to the key and you should be able to wiggle it out. If it breaks off choose a new rod and keep doing it with increased amps every time. Sooner or later it'll come out. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 20:58 - 15 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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So that's the pad pin?
If it's the part I think it is, you could hacksaw a section out of the opposite end of the pin to the threads and remove the end bit and the pads. Then bend the remaining end of the pin over into an L-shape and wind it out into the centre of the calliper.
You'll need to replace that pad pin anyway. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 21:18 - 15 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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You shouldn't eff about with brakes; when you are trying not to hit a SMIDSY they are the last thing you dont want to do something daft, like NOT work......
If me... I would start by pulling the caliper off. Completely. This would mean that whatever went back on the end of the hose, after, I'd need to carefully flush through the brake fluid and bleed out any air, at the very least.
Would also beg I bought new washers for the hose; and give me opportunity to inspect the state of the old hose, and for the cost and hassle of chasing the right sized crushg washers, likely buying a new probably braided hose for £10-£15 or so that came with them.
THEN, I could have a look at the caliper....
You were trying to change brake pads... well, there's £10-£15 straight away.... and no good fitting nice new pads to a manky old caliper that wont budge them against the disc none too well.... and you have already discovered a seized pad-pin.... so what is the rest of the caliper like.
Worth noting, hydraulic brakes on little bikes are a pain.. actually a pain on any bike, but still. They are self adjusting, until the brake pad wears out; this means that unlike drums of old, no-one thinks to look at them until pads start grating on the disc.. and they DO suffer corrosion, and get sticky....
ALSO worth noting, MOST brake failures occur on disc brake systems soon after brake pad change. Happens like this; numpty undoes screws, drops out old pads, and then has trouble squeezing new, thicker, pads into the gap where worn, thin' ones used to fit.... the piston that pushes the pads, has, for however long been pushed out of its cylinder, taking up the 'wear' on the pad; it needs to be pushed back into the cylinder... BUT... its been out in the elements, worse, its been next to pads that have turned to dust as they wear out, where that dust will get damp and stick to the piston, and with water make a rather corrosive mixture to RUST the piston.....
NOW; numpty gets big lever or a G-Clamp or special one from Halfrauds, and forces piston back into its cylinder... pads now go in the gap made... and they 'think' all is good. Often though its NOT. They push all the crud that has collected as old pads wear back into the piston rebate with the piston. Piston, probably rusty and pitted and that crud now cut up or chew the seal that's supposed to hold the hydraulic fluid in, and or just lift it away from piston so it doesn't seal, or let the piston move properly, often making the brake 'bind' not returning when brakes released.... and pretty soon 'something' gives, and the brakes stop working....
SO, doing the job properly... you very carefully examine the brake piston, make sure that its NOT rusty or pitted, or dirty; you clean the piston rebate, and make sure there is no crud clocking the piston area, and THEN, if all good, you press the piston back 'home' to squeeze new pads in.
If NOT... you have to over-haul the caliper, and replace pistons and seals, and possibly the pad pins and anti-rattle clips and likely the hydraulic bleed nipple.
NOW.. a second hand caliper can look good value... but may not be any 'better' than what you had... and personally, I would recondition a 2nd hand caliper before fitting to bike, as a matter of course..... This can make a brand new caliper look quite reasonable price.
BACK to your stubborn screw and broken Allen key...
You have identified ONE problem.... that screw is probably siezed... so whats the rest of the caliper like... are you likely to be able to re-use it even if you get that pin out? And replace it... and if you do... what state the piston and seals and bleed nipple?
When you have done this job 'properly'; will you have saved anything trying to get that pin out, and replacing that pin, and probably replacing piston and seal and nipple, and anti-rattle clips?
Assuming you might... and/or that salvaging old caliper is the only or better choice than genuinely buying brand new.....
I would look at how much space there was between the pads to get a pair of mole grips or pliers onto the pad-pin and try turning from the inside.
I might use a grinder or saw to get the old brake pads off the pin and make a bit more space to grip from the back.
I would be sangine, about drilling out the Allen key..... that is tool hard steel (or should be!), it will be as hard as ordinary drill bits, hence advice to use a cobalt bit to try drilling it, or you are as likely to have the allen key wearing out drill bit rather than other way around... and there's the big risk of the drill slipping,. and chewing into the MUCH softer aluminium of the caliper casting, that around the pad-pin is threaded, and you have a stepped hole, if you go through, where you could be drilling into casting beneath, etc. Its really a job to be done with a flat-bottom drill on a pillar drill in a machine shop, not a hack-and-wrecker hand drill on the drive or in the shed! Probably wouldn't stop me... but risk is wreckling the caliper, and needing a new-one again.
Better to try and get it out from the other side if possible... and then, back to the greater scheme of stuff, and whether IF you could salvage, you still have to buy a new pad-pin, you probably still have to recondition the caliper, and new seals, new piston, new bleed nipple, new hose seals and or new hose, new fluid, and and and... the pin is only a small part of the big picture......
As has been asked, is replacement caliper new or used? How much is a new caliper? How much is the job, including proper overhaul, with fluid and new piston/seals/nipple going to cost if you salvage your caliper, or if you have to buy 2nd hand one?
£60, for a paid mechanic? That's perhaps two hours of labour; IF they do the job more properly, taking the caliper off, putting it in a pillar drill, replacing on bike, fitting pads, new pad-pin, flushing and bleeding the fluid... that's probably not unreasonable... and it IS cheaper than replacement caliper.... and its some-one elses problem.... Worry is that they DONT do it propper, and do it on the bike with a hack-and-wrecker..... and the risk is any and all of theose faced by DIYer.... where it's still not a complete rip off, likely still take a good couple of hours of work-shop time.... but either which way.... is is done well?
Back to the top, and IF you have any sense, you DO NOT eff about with brakes.
Its all about risk mitigation and risk management, and ultimately YOUR call.
But from your opening post comments; if its £60 for a genuine brand new unused caliper; add brake pads add brake hose, add seals add fluid... that WOULD seem to my mind the most cost effective, least risk way about the matter.... how much not impaling your pride and joy into the door of SMIDY man? ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:19 - 15 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Good quality cobalt drill with plenty of cutting fluid.......
But once you have bought a cobalt drill, then fucked it because you had the drill running at 3000rpm and then bought another cobalt drill and fucked it because.................
Buy the new caliper. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
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Sweaty_Doughnut |
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Sweaty_Doughnut Nova Slayer
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Sweaty_Doughnut |
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Sweaty_Doughnut Nova Slayer
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Posted: 22:48 - 15 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Teflon-Mike wrote: | You shouldn't eff about with brakes; when you are trying not to hit a SMIDSY they are the last thing you dont want to do something daft, like NOT work......
If me... I would start by pulling the caliper off. Completely. This would mean that whatever went back on the end of the hose, after, I'd need to carefully flush through the brake fluid and bleed out any air, at the very least.
Would also beg I bought new washers for the hose; and give me opportunity to inspect the state of the old hose, and for the cost and hassle of chasing the right sized crushg washers, likely buying a new probably braided hose for £10-£15 or so that came with them.
THEN, I could have a look at the caliper....
You were trying to change brake pads... well, there's £10-£15 straight away.... and no good fitting nice new pads to a manky old caliper that wont budge them against the disc none too well.... and you have already discovered a seized pad-pin.... so what is the rest of the caliper like.
Worth noting, hydraulic brakes on little bikes are a pain.. actually a pain on any bike, but still. They are self adjusting, until the brake pad wears out; this means that unlike drums of old, no-one thinks to look at them until pads start grating on the disc.. and they DO suffer corrosion, and get sticky....
ALSO worth noting, MOST brake failures occur on disc brake systems soon after brake pad change. Happens like this; numpty undoes screws, drops out old pads, and then has trouble squeezing new, thicker, pads into the gap where worn, thin' ones used to fit.... the piston that pushes the pads, has, for however long been pushed out of its cylinder, taking up the 'wear' on the pad; it needs to be pushed back into the cylinder... BUT... its been out in the elements, worse, its been next to pads that have turned to dust as they wear out, where that dust will get damp and stick to the piston, and with water make a rather corrosive mixture to RUST the piston.....
NOW; numpty gets big lever or a G-Clamp or special one from Halfrauds, and forces piston back into its cylinder... pads now go in the gap made... and they 'think' all is good. Often though its NOT. They push all the crud that has collected as old pads wear back into the piston rebate with the piston. Piston, probably rusty and pitted and that crud now cut up or chew the seal that's supposed to hold the hydraulic fluid in, and or just lift it away from piston so it doesn't seal, or let the piston move properly, often making the brake 'bind' not returning when brakes released.... and pretty soon 'something' gives, and the brakes stop working....
SO, doing the job properly... you very carefully examine the brake piston, make sure that its NOT rusty or pitted, or dirty; you clean the piston rebate, and make sure there is no crud clocking the piston area, and THEN, if all good, you press the piston back 'home' to squeeze new pads in.
If NOT... you have to over-haul the caliper, and replace pistons and seals, and possibly the pad pins and anti-rattle clips and likely the hydraulic bleed nipple.
NOW.. a second hand caliper can look good value... but may not be any 'better' than what you had... and personally, I would recondition a 2nd hand caliper before fitting to bike, as a matter of course..... This can make a brand new caliper look quite reasonable price.
BACK to your stubborn screw and broken Allen key...
You have identified ONE problem.... that screw is probably siezed... so whats the rest of the caliper like... are you likely to be able to re-use it even if you get that pin out? And replace it... and if you do... what state the piston and seals and bleed nipple?
When you have done this job 'properly'; will you have saved anything trying to get that pin out, and replacing that pin, and probably replacing piston and seal and nipple, and anti-rattle clips?
Assuming you might... and/or that salvaging old caliper is the only or better choice than genuinely buying brand new.....
I would look at how much space there was between the pads to get a pair of mole grips or pliers onto the pad-pin and try turning from the inside.
I might use a grinder or saw to get the old brake pads off the pin and make a bit more space to grip from the back.
I would be sangine, about drilling out the Allen key..... that is tool hard steel (or should be!), it will be as hard as ordinary drill bits, hence advice to use a cobalt bit to try drilling it, or you are as likely to have the allen key wearing out drill bit rather than other way around... and there's the big risk of the drill slipping,. and chewing into the MUCH softer aluminium of the caliper casting, that around the pad-pin is threaded, and you have a stepped hole, if you go through, where you could be drilling into casting beneath, etc. Its really a job to be done with a flat-bottom drill on a pillar drill in a machine shop, not a hack-and-wrecker hand drill on the drive or in the shed! Probably wouldn't stop me... but risk is wreckling the caliper, and needing a new-one again.
Better to try and get it out from the other side if possible... and then, back to the greater scheme of stuff, and whether IF you could salvage, you still have to buy a new pad-pin, you probably still have to recondition the caliper, and new seals, new piston, new bleed nipple, new hose seals and or new hose, new fluid, and and and... the pin is only a small part of the big picture......
As has been asked, is replacement caliper new or used? How much is a new caliper? How much is the job, including proper overhaul, with fluid and new piston/seals/nipple going to cost if you salvage your caliper, or if you have to buy 2nd hand one?
£60, for a paid mechanic? That's perhaps two hours of labour; IF they do the job more properly, taking the caliper off, putting it in a pillar drill, replacing on bike, fitting pads, new pad-pin, flushing and bleeding the fluid... that's probably not unreasonable... and it IS cheaper than replacement caliper.... and its some-one elses problem.... Worry is that they DONT do it propper, and do it on the bike with a hack-and-wrecker..... and the risk is any and all of theose faced by DIYer.... where it's still not a complete rip off, likely still take a good couple of hours of work-shop time.... but either which way.... is is done well?
Back to the top, and IF you have any sense, you DO NOT eff about with brakes.
Its all about risk mitigation and risk management, and ultimately YOUR call.
But from your opening post comments; if its £60 for a genuine brand new unused caliper; add brake pads add brake hose, add seals add fluid... that WOULD seem to my mind the most cost effective, least risk way about the matter.... how much not impaling your pride and joy into the door of SMIDY man? |
The calipper is £80 brand new with all bits,including the pads. This would be a good learning though if I can manage to get it off. The mechanic would most likely cost more if it was going to do the bleeding. |
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recman |
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recman World Chat Champion
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fatjames |
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fatjames World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 286 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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