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Harley Davidson courts the not-cruiser audience

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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 31 Jul 2018    Post subject: Harley Davidson courts the not-cruiser audience Reply with quote

So Harley have got around to teasing their offerings for 'Operation our-traditional-buyer-base-is-dying-oh-sh...'

https://i.imgur.com/kXVS7w0.jpg

Four new bikes in the works; a new touring bike called the Pan America, a naked cruiser-y thing called the Custom and a naked bike called the Streetfighter. All three will use a new 1250 engine. The fourth model is a new electric naked bike called the LiveWire.

No word on pricing or specs yet, but the Pan America is ugly enough to capture my interest and I *do* live near one of the few H-D dealerships in the UK.

More images and stuff here > https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/30/harley-davidson-pan-america-streetfighter-cruiser-concepts/#slide-7386680
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Last edited by Vracktal on 14:04 - 31 Jul 2018; edited 1 time in total
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 02:43 - 31 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering the way they ploughed money into Buell developing a new engine and then pulled the plug just as the Buell market was growing, they'll have to have had a fairly significant shuffle at the top before they get their act together with non cruisers again.
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arry
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PostPosted: 07:08 - 31 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Considering the way they ploughed money into Buell developing a new engine and then pulled the plug just as the Buell market was growing, they'll have to have had a fairly significant shuffle at the top before they get their act together with non cruisers again.


Poor Erik must be spewing.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 07:21 - 31 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buell Sheeet!

😂
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 07:24 - 31 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't that 2nd pic just a Ducati Diavel with a Harley badge on it

1st one looks interesting though
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 31 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
mentalboy wrote:
Considering the way they ploughed money into Buell developing a new engine and then pulled the plug just as the Buell market was growing, they'll have to have had a fairly significant shuffle at the top before they get their act together with non cruisers again.


Poor Erik must be spewing.


I should imagine that after twenty years of being shafted by Harley he either has rotten acid reflux issues or, more likely, doesn't give a fuck what they do anymore.
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BrownTrousers
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 31 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't like the look of the adventure-y one at all.

Don't mind the naked ones looks-wise but given the likelihood of high prices and low performance, i'm not sure why i'd go there rather than the many established naked offerings from Yamaha/KTM/Triumph/Ducati
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpsmith79 wrote:
Isn't that 2nd pic just a Ducati Diavel with a Harley badge on it

1st one looks interesting though


Interesting as in capable of bringing up yesterdays dinner Sick

If any, No.4 but a single disc on the front. Shocked

Yes, I know Buell had a single disc but it was a damn sight bigger than that one.
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Interesting as in capable of bringing up yesterdays dinner Sick


It's kind of like a 2 wheeled Humvee, styling wise, and Hummers do have a curious charm to them
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Re: Harley Davidson courts the not-cruiser audience Reply with quote

Vracktal wrote:
The fourth model is a new electric naked bike called the LiveWire.


Is that the one that looks as though it's humping a brick?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Re: Harley Davidson courts the not-cruiser audience Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:
Vracktal wrote:
The fourth model is a new electric naked bike called the LiveWire.


Is that the one that looks as though it's humping a brick?


Has anyone been able to make an electric bike that looks good though?

To us bikers the engine is part of the aesthetics, even on a full faired tourer like a GoldWing. When an electric bike manufacturer actually gets their product to look remotely pretty they might have a chance of getting bikers onside. Thumbs Up
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recman
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd possibility consider viewing the top right machine in the flesh.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


Yes, I know Buell had a single disc but it was a damn sight bigger than that one.


But it was still a bit pants.
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waffles
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

They all look a bit gopping, top left might attract the US doomsday prepper market. Just stick a deer skull on the front.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested to know if any of those bike above weigh less than a Sherman tank, can't see it myself! Wink
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess legislation and having to make things reasonably ergonomic and comfortable for their customers prevents them going back to American custom Bobber style bikes. But not just bobber style but pure uncompromising bobbers with no pillion provision, no mudguards, air cleaners, indicators or chain guards etc.

But if they did, if they could then you'd get lighter faster bikes that would perform better and look better or more true to the original style and history. They should make bikes that are as comfortable or as useful as serious road bikes as a KTM 125EXC is.

Oh yeah, and Polarbear's point about people wanting to see the mechanical and engine parts when looking at their bikes, I never thought about that in relation to electric bikes though?

I guess if that's how people still feel about naked bikes then yeah a cased in electric motor under a plastic or carbon fibre panel will never cut it enough to sell to the masses. Maybe they should bolt on a Vance&Hines drag pipe and a set of Keihin smooth bore flat slides to every electric bike? Laughing

Thing is it's easy to think that modern era bike people are like modern era car people. The idea of lifting a bonnet (if you really have to and can't find a way to avoid it at all costs) and see nothing but a big plastic cover with four rings or a three point star suits most of these people to the ground.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
I'd be interested to know if any of those bike above weigh less than a Sherman tank, can't see it myself! Wink


It's all to to with superheated steam pressures.

All has to be over designed.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have you know that my Sportster Iron 883 produces something like 55 brake superheated steam pressures, it's well suited for cruising the urban whatnot and 'FREEDOM FOR ALL' (you have to pay Harley I think even to write that) - other than that it's rubbish but I am 57 and to me a matt black Harley IS rock n Roll.

and no you cant try on my chaps because I don't own such things nor will i ever buy any Harley 'apparel' (except a pair of genuine Harley Davidson Made in China boots).

I don't like the look of sportsbikes, streetfighters, naked things but I'm glad other people do, I wish more people did, more bikes is more better.

Peace, love and respect or something.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Re: Harley Davidson courts the not-cruiser audience Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Wonko The Sane wrote:


Is that the one that looks as though it's humping a brick?


Has anyone been able to make an electric bike that looks good though?

To us bikers the engine is part of the aesthetics, even on a full faired tourer like a GoldWing. When an electric bike manufacturer actually gets their product to look remotely pretty they might have a chance of getting bikers onside. Thumbs Up


Some of the Zero range isn't bad, it at least looks like someone made an effort to style it instead of just designing a frame and bolting a battery box in.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/2014_Zero_Motorcycles_Zero_S.JPG/1200px-2014_Zero_Motorcycles_Zero_S.JPG
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats a nice colour ... Shifty
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 03 Aug 2018    Post subject: Re: Harley Davidson courts the not-cruiser audience Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


Has anyone been able to make an electric bike that looks good though?

To us bikers the engine is part of the aesthetics, even on a full faired tourer like a GoldWing. When an electric bike manufacturer actually gets their product to look remotely pretty they might have a chance of getting bikers onside. Thumbs Up


Some of the Zero range isn't bad, it at least looks like someone made an effort to style it instead of just designing a frame and bolting a battery box in.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/2014_Zero_Motorcycles_Zero_S.JPG/1200px-2014_Zero_Motorcycles_Zero_S.JPG


It really doesn't do it for me.

Maybe it's because I know that under that plastic is a rip roaring, snorting electric motor Rolling Eyes

Whereas

https://motovoyager.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Honda-GoldWing-2018.jpg

under that plastic is a flat 6 1800cc engine that is adorable Wub
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 03 Aug 2018    Post subject: Re: Harley Davidson courts the not-cruiser audience Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Has anyone been able to make an electric bike that looks good though?

To us bikers the engine is part of the aesthetics, even on a full faired tourer like a GoldWing. When an electric bike manufacturer actually gets their product to look remotely pretty they might have a chance of getting bikers onside. Thumbs Up


Polarbear wrote:
It really doesn't do it for me.

Maybe it's because I know that under that plastic is a rip roaring, snorting electric motor Rolling Eyes



Electric bikes will never be for me, however pretty they make them. I understand it for the younger generations who are facing more of the consequences of pollution etc, and the fact that the world is determined to see the back of fossil fuels.

But my generation has lived with the ICE for all our lives and it's what I love. Looks of a bike are one part, but I lose interest when a bike doesn't have that beating heart, with engine and exhaust noise telling you it's alive and (hopefully) well. They're my comfort zone, if you like, and one I'm not willing to leave. It took some adjustment to get used to LC engines after air cooled, ffs Laughing
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 14:46 - 03 Aug 2018    Post subject: Re: Harley Davidson courts the not-cruiser audience Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


Electric bikes will never be for me, however pretty they make them. I understand it for the younger generations who are facing more of the consequences of pollution etc, and the fact that the world is determined to see the back of fossil fuels.

But my generation has lived with the ICE for all our lives and it's what I love. Looks of a bike are one part, but I lose interest when a bike doesn't have that beating heart, with engine and exhaust noise telling you it's alive and (hopefully) well. They're my comfort zone, if you like, and one I'm not willing to leave. It took some adjustment to get used to LC engines after air cooled, ffs Laughing


I get PolarBear's point that the engine is part of the bike, bits visible by the fairing or through the fairing, but the Zero looks more like a bike than the harley offering, at first glance the Zero looks like a bike and a moment later yes, you realise that it has a big box of battery and a motor out of an industrial power drill or whatever.

Chickenstrip, I agree with you to some extent, My ZZR600 always felt like a machine, that there was something about it making it more than just a tool, my Hornet in comparison feels very bland, a capable tool, but no character. I may one day have an electric bike as I use my bike mainly for commuting so cost is a large factor, but a bike for fun, I'll be getting something with lots of oily bits, possibly older than me but possibly not.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 03 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to hear Chicken strips feelings on EV's, and that he'll live out his days left on ICE bikes or hang his leathers up for good when they disappear or are outlawed. I can see the older generations reasons and opinion on why they don't want to and don't need to change from what they have known all their life.

I'd be ready now for an EV car, (as a daily/commuter) I absolutely don't want one as a project car or hot rod or track day car though currently. Same again with bikes I'm ready now to commute and do mundane A-B riding on an electric bike or scooter. But like hell do I want one as a shed project or a resto or a nostalgia tool. Im happy with two and four stroke petrol engines still while I can get them and play with them.

An EV trackday Fireblade makes quite a bit more sense to me though as does an electric trials or MX bike. I imagine one day EV MX'ers will be faster and easier to ride/master for novices than the 450cc class. Ground zero wannabe MX riders will have less to learn in machine control and skill, so will get good faster than they ever did on peaky two stroke 125's etc.

Plug in EV tourers like a Pan European or GTR1400 make sense too if the daily range was enough to do the miles people want. I personally would never ride a bike like a Pan or a GTR for fun, and thus I wouldn't need or really want to hear the noise of an engine all the time.

But you'd never be able to replace a hoon bike like a TDR250 or DRZ400SM with an EV, and I'd never look to try or be prised away from such bikes with a breath left in me.

Guess I'm a floater, and can see benefits of both EV and ICE, but it's the choice I want for each type of use, not to be dictated and told you will ride X type of bike or we'll lock you up.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 03 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:


I'd be ready now for an EV car, (as a daily/commuter) I absolutely don't want one as a project car or hot rod or track day car though currently. Same again with bikes I'm ready now to commute and do mundane A-B riding on an electric bike or scooter.


Actually, I probably could live with EVs for commuting, shopping etc. But not for proper biking, i.e. riding for fun, touring, sport and racing (if I raced). It will be sad to lose all the evocative side of the ICE: noise, smells of oil and fuel, fettling and servicing an engine etc. There's just so much more to it all than just being on two wheels for me.
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