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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 10 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:
I want to stay with BT as it is tried and tested, I just want to make it cheaper. Any tips?


Haggle.

Then when you only get 60% of the advertised speed, tell them you wish to pay them "up to" 60% of the monthly bill.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 11 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
I'd be an unhappy customer if paying for 40Mb but only getting 30. Laughing

Talk Talk is one of the very few companies I would never use regardless of how good the price is or how much cashback I'd get.

I know various people who've had problems with service from Talk Talk and the only solution that works is to leave Talk Talk ASAP and go to a company who're not quite so bad.


They were atorshus years ago (and recent two three years ago but have realy got better.

I was with BT for ages then they went all India call centre and I crossed lines with a few Wankers (female and male) who are just out of reach being in New Deli.

Talk Talk like most others are in India too and I have talk talked to a couple of Nippy Sweeties there too.

I think there is not much between the lot of them as far as customer service is concerned when they use a country with vastly contrasting culture to answer calls about problems in another country.

Talk Talk probably have the cheapest deal.

I hate the fukin tele and most of the fagots we are forced to watch on it.

I hardly use my house phone (as I use a mobile) so only Internet for me.

I use a little of the Youview but for very selective programmes.

Ste for Mod.
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King29
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 11 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

An update for me, Virgin have gone back on their word and said the new price will be £10 higher than previously quoted. So I've binned them off and gone with PlusNet. I might be speaking to an Asian man/woman but at least when I do, Mo from Yorkshire is a lot easier to understand than Mo from Bangalore. I got £80 (due in a few weeks) from Topcashback for joining through them as well.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 12 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding ADSL/VDSL - No cable here just yet, it's still being buried.

If you want truly decent, then Zen is a good one to look at. Been around donkeys years, and customer service is top-notch.

Plusnet, last time I looked, were feeling the pressure from BT (Who own them) to make more money, customer support went to shit about the same time, draw your own conclusions.

If you want the absolute dogs nads, then Andrews and Arnold. Truly outstanding, but jesus, they 'aint cheap.
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P.
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 13 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
If you want the absolute dogs nads, then Andrews and Arnold. Truly outstanding, but jesus, they 'aint cheap.


Problem is they use IPv6, which isn't supported by many of my primary VPNs otherwise I'd be in there, proper decent customer service.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 15 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
ThatDippyTwat wrote:
If you want the absolute dogs nads, then Andrews and Arnold. Truly outstanding, but jesus, they 'aint cheap.


Problem is they use IPv6, which isn't supported by many of my primary VPNs otherwise I'd be in there, proper decent customer service.


Yup, it's an issue. Some VPN providers are surprisingly slow to catch up. I'm fairly sure that Perfect Privacy support it, but I have no idea if they're suitable for your needs.
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tsmith
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 04 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with TalkTalk on their basic ADSL service (fast broadband).
It costs me £17 a month on a 24 month contract and I've been with them for a year already.

New customers can get the best deals via U-Switch whereas existing customers can talk to the loyalty team and get the basic fibre package for £20 a month.

I've had no problems whatsoever with ADSL. My line is 3.2km long and I get 6Mbps. My download speed is typically 700-750kBps.

I used to be with Virgin but binned them because of the forced speed upgrades and price increases. I ended up paying £40 a month for 74Mbps. That worked out as a 9MBps download speed, but I never found a web server that could send files to me that quickly. So I was paying a fortune for bandwidth that I could never fully utilize.
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chrisw
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 20 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to round this out - I've just switched from TalkTalk ADSL to PlusNet FTTC.

Without changing a thing inside the house we've gone from 8Mb/0.25Mb to 35Mb/8Mb.

So the poor performance was naff all to do with the physical lines and all to do with TalkTalk's complete garbage service.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisw wrote:
Just to round this out - I've just switched from TalkTalk ADSL to PlusNet FTTC.

Without changing a thing inside the house we've gone from 8Mb/0.25Mb to 35Mb/8Mb.

So the poor performance was naff all to do with the physical lines and all to do with TalkTalk's complete garbage service.


No, you’re now using a different connection. ADSL is copper all the way to the exchange. FTTC is copper to the end of the street.

The only real difference for speeds is BT vs Virgin. Virgin own their own FTTP lines, BT own the normal cabinets and sublet them to smaller ISPs. The only difference is customer service.
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chrisw
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
You've upgraded the service, that's why.


No shit, Sherlock! The point is that the lines in the house (and within the street) are of a quality capable of carrying a service significantly higher than the TalkTalk service. I'm well aware of what the difference between ADSL and FTTC is.

The background was that BE, O2, Sky and BT had all provided ADSL services down those lines at significantly higher speeds and with greater reliability than TalkTalk could manage. If they failed at that, why on earth would I choose them when I upgrade my service?
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Chutzpah
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisw wrote:
mpd72 CPT wrote:
You've upgraded the service, that's why.


No shit, Sherlock! The point is that the lines in the house (and within the street) are of a quality capable of carrying a service significantly higher than the TalkTalk service. I'm well aware of what the difference between ADSL and FTTC is.


That last sentence may well be the case, but you're still discounting the couple of km of copper between the local street cabinet and the exchange.
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chrisw
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chutzpah wrote:

That last sentence may well be the case, but you're still discounting the couple of km of copper between the local street cabinet and the exchange.


What about that 2nd paragraph where I explain why I'm drawing what seems an unfair comparison?


Just to make it clear:

mpd72 CPT wrote:
chrisw wrote:
Wouldn't touch Talk Talk if they were the only supplier left, I'd rather eat the phone cables for entertainment.

Stuck in a deal with them at the moment (badged as the 'Post Office') for another couple of months with internet down to a few Mbs, regular drop outs and complete indifference from their support teams.

It's probably OK if you don't have any problems, but they are always rated worst for customer service.....because they are the worst at customer service.


Which is more likely down to your phone line, which will remain unchanged no matter what ISP you use. Plug another router into the test socket behind the face plate, with a new filter and test again with Ethernet connection.

Like I said, the vast majority of issues are down to the line quality and distance from the exchange, not the ISP at the other end of it. If it;s that bad with one ISP, it won't suddenly be cured by switching to the same service, through the same phone line, with another ISP.



So I have the same phone line, yes it terminates a little sooner (I'm very close to our exchange) but everything else is the same even down to the filter. I'm well aware of the difference in the services, the whole point is that the same last-mile hardware is perfectly capable of providing a reliable, fast service.
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Chutzpah
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could have a line fault at any point in that run of copper.

High resistance fault, earth fault, water ingress, battery contact fault, loop fault, jointing problems.

Yes stuff like internal wiring, bell wires, bridge tap won't go away by moving to FTTC. But getting rid of a whole chunk of it you get rid of a load of potential problems. And it is possible any of those problems crept in after your move to them.

TTB's core network isn't overly bad really, I have no idea what if anything they tried to do to sort your line out, but if you ever want to ruin several weeks of your life though try proving to BT Wholesale that they have a hot spot in their network. Hopefully you don't get that over time with your Plusnet connection.

ps I'm ISP agnostic (I'm even nice about Openreach some times), I have a hand in a couple of them. They all have their individual quirks/faults.
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chrisw
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chutzpah wrote:
ps I'm ISP agnostic (I'm even nice about Openreach some times), I have a hand in a couple of them. They all have their individual quirks/faults.


The only ISP I have any feeling toward is TalkTalk and that started way before we used their services because of some blatant yet manipulative lies some of their sales drones were spouting locally.

If I had a positive memory of any of them, it was BE. But even with them it took weeks to get them to admit to a routing issue and that was only because I could demonstrate and evidence alternative traffic paths behaved differently in and around their network. It seems to be an industry that's impossible to get right all of the time, hardly unexpected considering the number of moving parts (I've done my time as a network engineer, I have no desire to do it again).
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 07:47 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chutzpah wrote:
ps I'm ISP agnostic (I'm even nice about Openreach some times), I have a hand in a couple of them. They all have their individual quirks/faults.


Any idea how I can get decent inter webs? 2mbit ADSL, not FTTC enabled so I’m using a 4G router with a data cap.

I did actually approach BT wholesale at one point but they’d only connect one house, so my plan of splitting the line with my neighbours would have been rather complicated.
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colink98
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PostPosted: 08:17 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
Chutzpah wrote:
ps I'm ISP agnostic (I'm even nice about Openreach some times), I have a hand in a couple of them. They all have their individual quirks/faults.


Any idea how I can get decent inter webs? 2mbit ADSL, not FTTC enabled so I’m using a 4G router with a data cap.

I did actually approach BT wholesale at one point but they’d only connect one house, so my plan of splitting the line with my neighbours would have been rather complicated.


BT will provide you with a service.
how you then divvy it up with others is your call.
if you didn't want to make it a hassle business wise.
then maybe you can class it as a community project ?
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Chutzpah
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
Chutzpah wrote:
ps I'm ISP agnostic (I'm even nice about Openreach some times), I have a hand in a couple of them. They all have their individual quirks/faults.


Any idea how I can get decent inter webs? 2mbit ADSL, not FTTC enabled so I’m using a 4G router with a data cap.

I did actually approach BT wholesale at one point but they’d only connect one house, so my plan of splitting the line with my neighbours would have been rather complicated.


ColinK98 is right, how you split it up is up to you (obviously if neighbours started doing something dodgy download-wise you're the one with the contractual relationship with the ISP).

Alternatives are engaging with community fibre projects, you can also apply for a connection voucher under the gigabit voucher scheme to help fund the installation costs. It did get a bit more complicated for residential use a few months ago though as you need to have half the overall funding benefiting businesses. Any businesses fit the bill nearby? If you're suffering guarantee they are too.

https://gigabitvoucher.culture.gov.uk/for-residents/
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s no businesses, just a street with 42 houses. I made a thread about it a while ago, tried the community fibre thing but there was too much of a gap in funding. Every other cabinet served from the exchange is fibre enabled except ours.

Heard I can ‘demand’ a connection of minimum 10mbit in 2020. If not, 5G is rolled out that year too.

Alternatively, I could burn down the cabinet...
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Chutzpah
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know enterprising souls who have got a fibre leased line in and then used a switch to split it out, but you do take a bit of risk in doing so (mainly financial). Plus with a lot of these things no-one wants to be the first to commit and waits for everyone else to get on board, so it's easily ends up as all talk and no action.

Community fibre project wise, I'm always slightly suspicious of them long-term because whilst the Openreach model isn't perfect, you have market competition and can switch providers easily.

The Universal Service Obligation you mention is coming, though it's not entirely clear how it is going to be met. Openreach's trial of long range VDSL trial closed down the other month and was relatively unsuccessful, basically it would have extended the FTTC type technology to people like you.

My personal beef with the USO concept is it's easy for the government/Ofcom to mandate it, yet only Openreach will seemingly be obliged to deliver it - but are also expected to act in competition with the likes of Cityfibre, Hyperoptic and Gigaclear. Which is why people like you get left out of fibre rollouts, because they look at a spreadsheet, work out if the investment in rolling out fibre is worth it and decide against it.

A bit of a rant there, but it's a complicated industry and it's frustrating to be in it and know that people with poor connections are frequently left behind, whereas those with reasonable ones continue to get better connections even though the current one is adequate - I'm in a semi-rural area and get decent FTTC, yet I suspect my cabinet will get upgraded for g.fast in the next year or so, taking my potential speeds from 70Mb/s to something in the range of 200-300Mb/s. I don't need it, but it'll be made available.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chutzpah wrote:
The Universal Service Obligation you mention is coming, though it's not entirely clear how it is going to be met.

Spoiler: it's not going to be.
wrote:
Heard I can ‘demand’ a connection of minimum 10mbit in 2020.

That's right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42423047

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/115042/implementing-broadband-uso.pdf

"The USO provides consumers with the right to request a connection. It is not a broadband rollout programme and it could take time for each connection to be built or upgraded to premises that request it. "

"Checking whether the premises fall within the cost threshold of £3,400
3.12 The Universal Service Provider will need to assess whether the cost of providing a connection falls below the £3,400 threshold. In determining what the cost of provision will be, the Universal Service Provider will need to decide upon the appropriate technology to deliver a connection meeting the USO specification.
3.13 The Government has not specified technologies that can be used to deliver the USO. Each Universal Service Provider will therefore be free to decide how to provide a USO connection or service to the consumer in the most efficient way, both in terms of the technology deployed and who delivers that technology (i.e. through the purchase of wholesale products if appropriate). However:
• any Universal Service Provider will be required to ensure their choice of technology, and the specific implementation of that technology, meet the technical requirements " and can deliver connections to all eligible premises within the timeframes specified in the Universal Service Conditions; and
• if a Universal Service Provider is seeking compensation for providing USO services, they will need to demonstrate that the costs incurred in providing the USO connection were efficient. "

etc etc etc

There's still a huge amount of details to be worked out so it's not going to be nearly as straightforward as homes and businesses will have a legal right to demand faster broadband speed by 2020.

Don't get your hopes up just yet.
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Chutzpah
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PostPosted: 16:30 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Chutzpah wrote:
The Universal Service Obligation you mention is coming, though it's not entirely clear how it is going to be met.

Spoiler: it's not going to be.


I was trying not to completely crush his spirit Laughing
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want him to get his hopes up when it's not as straightforward as new articles make it sound. Razz

Saying that, his house shoulds like one of the easier ones to get fast broadband to since it's not in the middle of nowhere. Thumbs Up
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