Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Roundabouts - Who's right?

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Jayy
Mr. Ponzi



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 02:07 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Roundabouts - Who's right? Reply with quote

So two things recently happened:-

https://www.facebook.com/michael.t.kinsella/videos/2049136035121171/

This chap almost gets mowed down, the road markings clearly say straight on or right for him and the BMW almost changes lane and wipes him out.

Same thing happened to someone I know the other day but slightly different.

1. Van positions himself to come off to the left. Car is indicating left as van looks like going left too.
https://i.imgur.com/VPHPSLz.jpg

2. Van goes round roundabout to right instead of turning off and side swipes the car ( he didn't check if there was anything in his blindspot ).

https://i.imgur.com/DzAwQVE.jpg

There are no road markings on this roundabout. This is the actual roundabout taken from Google maps. Just like in the Bike / BMW video, pretty much the same thing happened.

Now I know the highway code states stay left lane to go left and right to go right but the above bike / BMW video shows what everyone on here probably sees every single day of their life whilst driving, I literally see it every day. There's one local to me that every time I go round it, I think to myself, "If that guy on the left wants to go right, he's going to wipe me out", yet it's a dual lane roundabout leading off a motorway.

1. Here it is as you approach it. Arrows showing you can go straight on in both lanes.
https://i.imgur.com/m83WkPs.png

2. White car if it wanted to could decide to go right... wiping you out.
https://i.imgur.com/QZBfO0P.jpg

So the question is, who's at fault?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

recman
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:43 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the van wants to stay on the roundabout, he should be on the right.
If the car wants to leave the roundabout, he should be on the left.
Of course if there are two lanes of exit there's always going to be the potential for an accident and personally I wouldn't exit a two laned exit of a roundabout on the right hand lane until I was positive the vehicle to my left was fully committed to leaving as well.
Even then I wouldn't take it as gospel.

I suppose technically you'd say the van was in the wrong.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

defblade
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:59 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many people do so many fuckwitted things on roundabouts that I have adopted the advice usually given on PistonHeads: never go around a roundabout next to another vehicle. Be properly in front or just stay behind. This goes double for lorries.

This simple advice works wonders, you just have to stop looking at roundabouts in general as an overtaking opportunity.
____________________
Honda Varadero 125cc => Suzuki Bandit 650 33bhp => 77bhp =>
BMW K1200R Sport 163bhp Twisted Evil => Aprilia Shiver GT 750 95bhp
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:13 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just something to watch out for because you see it happen all the time. Guy in the left lane should have thought ahead and got in the right lane for going round. Guy in the right lane should have thought ahead and made up some ground on the guy in the left so his indicator would be plain to see and the side of his vehicle was presented to him, or else he should have got in the left lane for a safe exit.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

arry
Super Spammer



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:18 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with all the above. I'd rather go round again and know you're not ending up embedded in the side of a badly driven Honda Jazz than take the chance on someone else getting it right for once.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:21 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Link to google maps so we can see what someone coming on the roundabout would see if they came on on the junction before that one?

Typically you stay in the left lane to go straight on if not otherwise directed to.

In the video clip, the car isn't indicating left and may have come on the roudabout in the previous junction.
This also makes the bike rider a 'fuckin stupid bastard' - because he's the one that's going to end up dead, whether or not he was 'at fault' legally!

On your google maps image, there is a lighter band that continues from where the van is around the roundabout - presuming this wasn't added by you, it does at least suggest it's very common people travel along that route.

However - despite all that, so far I would suggest it looks more likely if you are in the left lane, you should be turning left!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

doggone
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:56 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going straight on you can use either lane perfectly correctly, unless road markings indicate otherwise.

It's a carbon copy of an accident where I was in the van position but with a landrover - and a sports car driven by a no win no fee accident chaser solicitor (really!) drove into the side of me.
His car had a great gash along all panels, the landrover had a slightly bent front bumper.
He took it to court and the judge found in my favour.
He should have been aware of the slower vehicle alongside and not expected it to disappear because he wanted to dive for the exit.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:47 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Who's right? Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
So two things recently happened:-

https://www.facebook.com/michael.t.kinsella/videos/2049136035121171/

This chap almost gets mowed down, the road markings clearly say straight on or right for him and the BMW almost changes lane and wipes him out.

Same thing happened to someone I know the other day but slightly different.

1. Van positions himself to come off to the left. Car is indicating left as van looks like going left too.
https://i.imgur.com/VPHPSLz.jpg

2. Van goes round roundabout to right instead of turning off and side swipes the car ( he didn't check if there was anything in his blindspot ).

https://i.imgur.com/DzAwQVE.jpg

There are no road markings on this roundabout. This is the actual roundabout taken from Google maps. Just like in the Bike / BMW video, pretty much the same thing happened.

Now I know the highway code states stay left lane to go left and right to go right but the above bike / BMW video shows what everyone on here probably sees every single day of their life whilst driving, I literally see it every day. There's one local to me that every time I go round it, I think to myself, "If that guy on the left wants to go right, he's going to wipe me out", yet it's a dual lane roundabout leading off a motorway.

1. Here it is as you approach it. Arrows showing you can go straight on in both lanes.
https://i.imgur.com/m83WkPs.png

2. White car if it wanted to could decide to go right... wiping you out.
https://i.imgur.com/QZBfO0P.jpg

So the question is, who's at fault?


Do not overtake at or near functions.

Problem solved.

Lack of lane markings or signage doesn't help. Shite road layout/design/engineering.

If it gets to court the car will get most of the blame indicators, road design or not.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:07 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and incidentally - generally you aren't expected to do blind spot checks if you are staying in the lane you are in - which presumably the ban believed they were.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

grr666
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:16 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite likely either was being directed by a nav unit, they often get confusing and lag at critical moments.
Maybe both were new to the area and trying to find somewhere unfamiliar. I'd say it was 50/50, both could
have been positioned more favourably.
____________________
Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off. Thumbs Up
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

doggone
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:30 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
If there's two lanes on and off a roundabout, you should only be in the left lane if you're leaving at the next exit.

(Unless you're a foreign HGV driver in Dover, then you go all the way around the roundabout in the outside lane and wipe out 5 plus cars every week).
Happens a lot near the Channel ports. As a local, you learn to expect it and be very wary if you're on the inside of a foreign HGV and about to leave a roundabout.

Spot on, the car should have moved to the left before the exit giving others time to react.
Roundabouts work well if people would top trying to be clever to gain a couple of places.
You see just the same thing at motorway exits where they simply must get past one more truck.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Wonko The Sane
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:58 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

with roundabouts like these, there is often some expectation that the main A road that goes 'straight on' over them that people proceed round the roundabout as though they are still on that A road, some people in the left lane leaving off to the left, people in the right lane continuing round the roundabout but most traffic in both lanes following the main route.

This is how people seem to drive.

The issue comes when people have joined from the left and are abiding by the 'left lane for left turn or straight on' advice from the highway code, their straight on is at odds with the main route.


Got a link to google maps to see the whole layout of the junction?
____________________
Looking to pass your CBT / Bike tests in Bury Lancashire? try www.focusridertraining.co.uk Would recommend.
They're also on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Focus-Rider-Training/196832923734251
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:19 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

This kind of thing is just where you have to use anticipation of what other road users might do, to stay safe. Give yourself the room to get clear of anyone you suspect might suddenly change their minds or do something stupid. It's all just part of riding on the roads. With busy roads, you can never be totally safe from the idiots - you just give yourself the best chance you can.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:24 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
If there's two lanes on and off a roundabout, you should only be in the left lane if you're leaving at the next exit.

(Unless you're a foreign HGV driver in Dover, then you go all the way around the roundabout in the outside lane and wipe out 5 plus cars every week).
Happens a lot near the Channel ports. As a local, you learn to expect it and be very wary if you're on the inside of a foreign HGV and about to leave a roundabout.


Unless lanes are marked with arrows you can enter in the left and either take the first turn or the next or the next.
A roundabout is a hazard which needs special considerations when negotiating them.

Not a lot of people care to learn the highway code. It is a major problem in UK roads. Ignorant, stupid or lazy twats.

Especially Rule 185

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203


The car driver was inconsiderate.

The car is wrong 100% for overtaking like a penis would.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

NutsyUk
Nearly there...



Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:00 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought if a roundabout doesnt have lane markings no matter how wide it is, it should be considered a single lane. In that case both van and car are in the wrong.

Van i would say is more so in the wrong for both being in position to leave the roundabout and for signalling to come off.

Obviously people should position there vehicle for coming off towards the left.

I live in Norfolk, and i dont know what its like for most of the rest of the country but people here almost never signal correctly on a roundabout. its really frustrating to see some one signal theyre coming off but really stay on. Or signal theyre staying on but come off... Or even worse. No blinkies at all. Its even more frustrating when your trying to enter a roundabout and have all this happening with a queue of cars behind you :/
____________________
Yamaha FZ8/Fazer800 (split headlight one) 2014, gingerly getting used to the massive increase in HP and not killing myself in the process! That was easy to get used to.
Kawasaki ER6F 2007 650 Gonna sell as a project bike!
Lexmoto XTR S 125 Sold!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

johnsmith222
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:39 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

imo the bike was wrong in the clip. He was going too fast in relation to the other vehicles and put himself in a situation that wasn't needed.

I don't judge though as I've done this in my car where i've gone alongside a car that decided to straight line a 2 lane roundabout.

It seems most of the videos I see are bikers doing stupid stuff then road raging. Not sure if that says anything about bikers, or just the type of bikers that film themselves.

I'm all for speeding, but at least wait until the bmw in front isn't going to decide to go round the roundabout and might miss you in their mirror while you're flying past.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

u33db
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:53 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Who's right? Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
So two things recently happened:-

https://www.facebook.com/michael.t.kinsella/videos/2049136035121171/

This chap almost gets mowed down, the road markings clearly say straight on or right for him and the BMW almost changes lane and wipes him out.


I watch a lot of videos like this at lunchtimes were the motorcyclist has been seemingly "wronged" by a car driver through no "fault of their own".

You could argue thats the case here and that the BMW driver "should have been looking" but roundabouts aren't for overtaking; i don't know what the speed deficit is but its large enough for him to already have passed one truck and got up along side the car and realistically no driver can watch their mirrors 100% of the time.

So they're both wrong for me; car driver COULD maybe have been more vigilant and the bike SHOULD have been going slower.

Whatever the cause the bike rider shouldn't be swearing at the driver like they've just raped his wife...i mean i doubt it was on purpose and we all make mistakes...no need to go nuclear.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Skudd
Super Spammer



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:02 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The van is in the right. The car is overtaking and turning left. Think or a roundabout as a straight road with lots of left hand turns. Then rethink the manoeuvre you are talking about.
____________________
Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

NutsyUk
Nearly there...



Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:04 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:
The van is in the right. The car is overtaking and turning left. Think or a roundabout as a straight road with lots of left hand turns. Then rethink the manoeuvre you are talking about.


Well are you sure its over taking? If the van is signelling to come off, and op and bmw assumed its a 2 lane roundabout... the bwm who i think we assumed is alo signeling was in the right...

But like i said when i see a roundabout with no road markings i assume its a single lane roundabout and dont ride next to anyone...
____________________
Yamaha FZ8/Fazer800 (split headlight one) 2014, gingerly getting used to the massive increase in HP and not killing myself in the process! That was easy to get used to.
Kawasaki ER6F 2007 650 Gonna sell as a project bike!
Lexmoto XTR S 125 Sold!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Skudd
Super Spammer



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:21 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I'm sure it's overtaking. As an ADI I taught people about the use of round abouts with their pit falls and what to expect and do, especially in such a scenario. Thumbs Up
____________________
Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:34 - 02 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
bullshit.


I linked to the Highway Code.
Rule 185

It is not more complex than it need be.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 5 years, 239 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.11 Sec - Server Load: 0.24 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 147.81 Kb