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| Jayy |
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Jayy
Mr. Ponzi
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
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 Posted: 15:06 - 02 Aug 2018  Post subject: |
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It is actually quite confusing, especially in that bike / BMW video where the arrows are pointing straight on for both lanes, as they do on that roundabout I often go over.
Here's the link to the one I go over all the time which I screenshotted in my original post:
https://goo.gl/maps/pDZgmo6zMEy
My friend got wiped out here last year on his bike, exactly the same scenario as talked about. I position myself in the left most the time but the odd times I do the right as well but extremely cautious of this happening.
You can probably street view most roundabouts anywhere and actually see this happening, 2 cars leaving the exit in both lanes. |
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| Jayy |
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Jayy
Mr. Ponzi
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| Posted: 15:15 - 02 Aug 2018 Post subject: |
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Here we go, you can see all the dates a place has been mapped and switch, so in Nov 2015, same roundabout you can see it clearly here.
https://goo.gl/maps/uEfmEXtr4v32
Cars coming off like that, you see it literally everywhere all the time. Now imagine the white car on the left is a fuck off lorry, and continues right and crashes in to the red car.
So who is actually at fault? It's not as clear cut as the highway code or people make out. There isn't even a general agreement in this thread, everyone's saying different things. |
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bacon
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| Skudd |
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Skudd
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| Posted: 16:09 - 02 Aug 2018 Post subject: |
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Questions and actions like these are the reason we need testing every 5 years, some people don't know even the basics, have become scared of driving but still do, have become complacent, got away with poor standards and now the norm forcing others to adopt the same bad habits just to get from A to B without an accident.
Road craft, First Aid, Swimming, How to manage a bank account, basic good food/ diet/eating and excersizing should be the basics of all education from the first day you start at school to when you leave. Sod French, social studies and the like. Skills for life first then skills to show off with at an interview. I have lost count of the people who have degrees and stack shelves. Most jobs can be done with apprenticeships. Nursing is a good example, you used to study while on the job training. Now you need all sorts and still wipe arses.
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| chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip
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Posted: 16:21 - 02 Aug 2018  Post subject: |
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It's all very well discussing who's at fault, but at the end of the day (the sun goes down) it's better just to allow for confusion and idiots, ride defensively and avoid a hospital bed.
People will still do stupid things even when they know the right way.
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| suburban myth |
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suburban myth
Spanner Monkey
Joined: 13 Feb 2013
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| Posted: 03:28 - 03 Aug 2018 Post subject: |
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There's only one thing to assume on the road. That you haven't been seen. Bike, car, van, bicycle, bus. no matter what.
Hope for the best. Plan for the worst.
Specifically in the first video, sure the bike didn't cause what nearly became a statistic, but he certainly could have prevented it. Without learning relative speeds and such like it's not really possible to ascertain what exactly happened and quite how much blame to apportion to the van. Obvs, initial reaction is to expect the van at fault, but if the Sport reader is acting hesitantly/drifting/bad mannerisms, and car driver ploughs alongside at 70/80mph then there are certainly questions to ask. |
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suburban myth
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| BTTD |
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BTTD
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| Posted: 07:57 - 03 Aug 2018 Post subject: |
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| MCN wrote: |
I linked to the Highway Code.
Rule 185
It is not more complex than it need be. |
Reading rules 185 and 186, I'm not sure you two are even disagreeing. |
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| owl |
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owl
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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| Posted: 08:26 - 03 Aug 2018 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Who's right? |
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Every bit of writing on the road said in the right hand lane to turn right (A42N I think) The bike went straight?
Rider also needs to chill, life really is too short.
Who's in the wrong is a bit irrelevant, people do stupid things all the time, it's just a case of avoiding them.
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| Posted: 09:33 - 03 Aug 2018 Post subject: |
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| owl wrote: | | jnw010 wrote: |
Reading rules 185 and 186, I'm not sure you two are even disagreeing. |
Small but crucial difference, mpd is saying the left lane is only for the first exit and the right lane is for second and third (I think).
Mcn is saying the first lane is for first or second exit, and right lane is for third.
It’s what seems to cause these kinds of accidents and confusion in the first place. The gov website is obviously the correct one. Anyone who tries to exit from the right lane with a vehicle in the left lane and just assumes they are taking the next exit as well needs to get their head checked, at that point it’s just natural selection.
Even if they are indicating to take the exit, I still assume they’re not going to and proceed accordingly. Like grrr666 says roundabouts seem to confuse a lot of people especially ones following sat navs. |
Almost. I'm not talking about left or straight on, I'm talking about turning right, aka, as MCN puts it "the third exit". There is no rule anywhere which says it's perfectly OK on a 2 lane roundabout, to cruise all the way around in the outside lane, passing several exits to turn right.
It's against the rules of the road and dangerous, but it does happen, even more so where there are high proportions of foreign HGV drivers.
If going straight on, you need to show caution and not expect the vehicle in the left lane to go down the exit. That doesn't make the vehicle turning right in the left hand lane correct though.
I have no idea where MCN is getting the idea that it's perfectly OK to turn right at a roundabout with 2 lanes, using the left lane past several exits. But then clearly neither does he, now he's been asked to point out where the highway code states this nonsense.
There are people out there still who have no idea how to use a roundabout, not only foreign drivers. It's kind of scary these people are still on the road.
With regards to the video in the OP, both were in the wrong. The right hand approach lane and right hand lane on the roundabout were clearly marked for right turn only, not for straight on as the bike was using it for. But the car driver should not have been crossing a dual lane exit in the left hand lane to turn right either.
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Posted: 10:21 - 03 Aug 2018 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | Mcn is saying the first lane is for first or second exit, and right lane is for third. [/b]
It’s what seems to cause these kinds of accidents and confusion in the first place. The gov website is obviously the correct one. Anyone who tries to exit from the right lane with a vehicle in the left lane and just assumes they are taking the next exit as well needs to get their head checked, at that point it’s just natural selection.
Even if they are indicating to take the exit, I still assume they’re not going to and proceed accordingly. Like grrr666 says roundabouts seem to confuse a lot of people especially ones following sat navs. |
Almost. I'm not talking about left or straight on, I'm talking about turning right, aka, as MCN puts it "the third exit". There is no rule anywhere which says it's perfectly OK on a 2 lane roundabout, to cruise all the way around in the outside lane, passing several exits to turn right.
It's against the rules of the road and dangerous, but it does happen, even more so where there are high proportions of foreign HGV drivers.
If going straight on, you need to show caution and not expect the vehicle in the left lane to go down the exit. That doesn't make the vehicle turning right in the left hand lane correct though.
I have no idea where MCN is getting the idea that it's perfectly OK to turn right at a roundabout with 2 lanes, using the left lane past several exits. But then clearly neither does he, now he's been asked to point out where the highway code states this nonsense.
There are people out there still who have no idea how to use a roundabout, not only foreign drivers. It's kind of scary these people are still on the road.
[/quote]
You misquote me. I never said use any lane to turn right.
I did say use roundabouts according to the rules.
There are many roundabouts with more than four exits. It is perfectly reasonable and correct to enter on the left lane, negotiate the roundabout in the left lane until you reach your exit even if it is a second, third, fourth etc. (that does not mean turning right).
Read all the rules about roundabouts in the highway code. It 'really' is not so complex. It is 'really' very logical for people who respect a polite society.
I referred to rule 185 as it specifically states, use care on roundabouts, and be careful of traffic already on the roundabout.
"Rule 185
When reaching the roundabout you should
give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off."
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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rpsmith79
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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rpsmith79
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Val
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Posted: 16:40 - 03 Aug 2018 Post subject: |
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| rpsmith79 wrote: | Sorry MCN, but i'm agreeing (begrudgingly) with MPD
| Quote: | Rule 186
Signals and position. When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it. |
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You agree with MPD... Ha ha ha ha ha.... (MCN does 'Theatrical' Laph.)
For the hard of thinking I have included the little picture. (Colours)
This shows a roundabout with four points of entry/exits. The rule of using the left lane applies to as many exits as there are on the roundabout not just the 1st one on the left.
You should approach in the right lane if you will exit on THE RIGHT.
Although, you can still approach in the right lane and exit straight.
So long as traffic conditions permit/road markings. (refer to 184)
"Rule 185
When reaching the roundabout you should
give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off."
That is from gov.co.uk not my rules.
The whole article for roundabouts is covered by rules 184 through 190.
One must read and understand all the rules in the highway code to help gain a competence for driving on UK roads.
The rules ARE very explicit and clear some folk could STFU and RTFB before putting their keyboard in gear.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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| Val |
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Val
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Posted: 16:47 - 03 Aug 2018  Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | If there's two lanes on and off a roundabout, you should only be in the left lane if you're leaving at the next exit.
(Unless you're a foreign HGV driver in Dover, then you go all the way around the roundabout in the outside lane and wipe out 5 plus cars every week).
Happens a lot near the Channel ports. As a local, you learn to expect it and be very wary if you're on the inside of a foreign HGV and about to leave a roundabout. |
Or unless you are ignorant bigot like bnp72. As a local you need to expect such plonkers.
UK Highway code Rule 185 example of correct position in the left lane when going straight:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/559af891e5274a155c00001d/the-highway-code-rule-185.jpg
| Quote: | When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want. |
Everything you need to know is in the Highway Code here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203
Other then that there is no right or wrong where you ride motorcycle - do expect by default that everybody is trying to kill you.
Today a plonker on a tipper lorry, probably close relative to bnp72, has tried to potato me despite the fact I was in the roundabout already and he entered from my left side without even a hint of stopping. Means I have done emergency stopping with a change of pants.
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MCN
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 265 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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