What do with a back wheel slippage

[DrSnoosnoo]

Yeah, I meant the bad grammorz.

Anyway. On exiting a roundabout I started to roll on, the back end got a bit slippy and I think I held the throttle at a constant and it quickly sorted itself.

I was doing maybe 30 mph, standing the bike more upright and rolling throttle on.

My question is, what is one supposed to do, on feeling a slippery back wheel? Less, same or more throttle? Pray to Jeebus?

Tyres are BT023
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I'm Sam; Northern, Ginger, Lover
Did have: '95 ZZR600 '83 CG125 '97 ZZR1100 '15 Hypermotard 821 SP Do Have: '10 ZX10R

[el_oso]

bin the bt-023

Ideally you want to gradually stop the slippage. You almost always don't want to snap the throttle shut as the sudden grip could stand the bike up violently enough to highside and flip you off.

When I'm in this situation I tend to hold the throttle constant, and slowly back off if needed. The rear comes back under control and that ends the drama.
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Duke 390
Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
Car: Jeep Wrangler 4.0L

[wr6133]

On my ZZR6 I gently give it a little more throttle, it's not spat me off doing this yet.

My Gixxer has a quick action throttle so I don't trust my panicked heat of the moment adjustments to be subtle enough. I just hold it constant and hope it rights itself (again not spat me off so far).

I suspect both of my above statements are more luck than anything else, unless on polished ice the bike has some traction and it probably refinds the rest regardless of whatever I'm doing to fuck it up more.

[Ste]

I'm impressed that you haven't used the usual excuse of diesel when being slightly cack handed with the throttle.

[DrSnoosnoo]

I read that the BT023 won't last too long anyway so I'll change them later - I may even get Avons!!

@Ste - It was wet ...

I only ever had the ZZR6 step out on me once, and I described how it happened on here and people told me diesel was the likely reason for that one. I had a light front a hundred metres before an overtake and the back wheel slipped then.

I always thought to just hold a constant throttle when slipping and think I did it but in reality it happens so quick it's not always easy to think about actions before enacting them.
I imagine that if you give more throttle you'll spin up more, sliding more?

The throttle on this 1100 is much more sensitive than my 600, perhaps because I never adjusted the throttle cables, so the 11 doesn't need too much input at the grip to give some beans.


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I'm Sam; Northern, Ginger, Lover
Did have: '95 ZZR600 '83 CG125 '97 ZZR1100 '15 Hypermotard 821 SP Do Have: '10 ZX10R

[G]

[natefz6]

Avoid white lines, manhole covers and giving it too much beans when coming out of a corner.

My rear went for a wonder in the wet this morning while going over a direction arrow on a roundabout. It's been so dry of late I have gotten used to not needing to bother being so observant of slippery things.


<cool story bro>

I used to get a bit sideways quite often in Parliament Square. You can't really see it on google maps but there used to be a line of manhole covers that went diagonally across the corner of the south west side. It was a race from the lights each morning for the motorcyclists to get round the corner using the small line of road where you could actually get traction. The manholes were worn completely flat by traffic, it was like hitting 2 foot squares of ice.

</cool story bro>
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"no I didn't steal it that's just the way I ride"

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Avoid it in the first place by straight-lining roundabouts. This way you're not tracking around the outside in the path of a spill from a truck's capless tank or whatever. True, you'll have to make even better obs, and quite possibly spend more time on planning your approach. And you shouldn't necessarily take it too literally - i.e. not a truly straight line.

But look for the straightest one that's not going to see you creating a hazard for other vehicles, and also be shoulder-checking more than you otherwise might. If I sense someone's taken umbrage - even when there's been absolutely no need for them to brake nor even feel like braking (and/or changing position, whatever), a quick wave in their general direction smooths it out. I personally think all this is safer than following a spilly line.

The only time I don't so this is if it's insanely busy or if I'm leading others who don't, won't or can't follow my line (or an approximation of). In which case, I just have consummate lane discipline.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Polarbear]

As said, the worst thing is to snap the throttle shut. If Rossi can drift his race bike I'm sure you can do the same on a big bad ZZR1100.

From what I remember the back tyre on the ZZR11 is quite skinny compared to todays big bikes set up. Not sure if that would make a difference or not.

Anyway, I fitted Avon Storms to my gen 1 busa and they lasted well and I never had a problem with grip. I'm sure they would be fine on the ZZR.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[DrSnoosnoo]

This particular roundabout requires a left turn, with two lanes on approach that can go left. There was a car to my right, me on the inside lane. The road is cambered, falling away quite sharply towards the left. I can't really straight line that too much, generally there's plenty of cars about to make it a rare occurrence for it to be empty.

The rear tyre is a 180 - so wider than the 600s 160. It was only a couple of miles from home along 30 / 40 mph roads, perhaps my tyres were still a bit cold too?

I will try styling it out next time, bare tyre smoke init ... (I won't)

Also my "threat" of the Avons was tongue in cheek. My experience of the storms on the old bike make me happy to get a pair on the 11, I think they're called 3D-XM or something now?
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I'm Sam; Northern, Ginger, Lover
Did have: '95 ZZR600 '83 CG125 '97 ZZR1100 '15 Hypermotard 821 SP Do Have: '10 ZX10R

[MCN]

A High-Side is when the rear tyre looses grip, suspension relaxes, the tyre slips side ways, when it finds grip, the torque compresses the rear suspension again.
If you are giving it the beans at the same time (which probably caused the slip) then the final part of the high-side is the sudden rebound of an over compressed rear and that bucks you off like in your first rodeo.

I wouldn't give it any more juice if I felt the slip. (That caused it.)
There has to be a lot of skill and experience to recover the bike then.

Backing off a bit will only help. Rolling off the throttle.

But banging it shut will cause another sort of issue.

The real thing to remember is that there are very few roundabouts on race tracks and private roads.
You are on a public road that the public have free access to.
That is stuff you can hit.

And the PoPo will defo give you a tug if they see you careening around a roundabout.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[DrSnoosnoo]

[G]

[Confusion]

[MCN]

[chickenstrip]

I found BT023s didn't inspire much confidence in the dry, never mind the wet, so another vote for binning them. Lots of much better tyres out there nowadays, and it is the one thing to make riding enjoyable - having confidence in good tyres.
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[natefz6]

[talkToTheHat]

[G]

Also note that suspension of course has rebound damping - which is there to specifically slow the rate the spring releases energy.

If a spring could release all it's energy quickly, it would cause a good lot of other issues for the bike too in other situations.

[MCN]

Rotation my Donkey.

Look at the video 0:24 seconds.

The rider only leaves the saddle after the suspension reaches full extension again.

It is designed to maintain tyre contact with the road surface over a relatively smooth surface. The bumps it normally encounters on a track are small. (Different design and settings for road racing etc.)
The intended design is not to absorb the massive forces such as those of a slip and grip in a high speed cornering manoeuvre.
The suspension probable seldom bottoms out in normal cornering.
Only the front will work as hard as that.

The suspension only does what it is designed to do and maintain the bike at its ride height.

It doesn't have anything to do with the rebound dampening. If it was dampened so much it would be too slow for the normal bumps.

It gets overloaded in a high side.

Someone did the maths on the forces (moments) for us. Thanks..
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[talkToTheHat]

ok, 700J in the suspention maximum. That's enough to lift a 70kg rider 1 metre, but you have damping and the weight of the motorcycle in there as well so not all that energy is available.

Furthermore if the wheel is sliding then it's not fully loaded. The suspention compressing and transfering energy into the damper reduces that available to flip the bike.
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Bandit. does. everything.

[MCN]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[Islander]