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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
It was a spectacularly successful for the Stable Genius; the amount of lies he delivered increased 300% compared to 2017. Attaboy!

Its funny that he seems to be delivering or trying to deliver on his campaign pledges. Is that why politicians don't like him? Thinking


What exactly did he deliver?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
He's a twat and the world would be well rid of him. But he is the result of a (sometimes) different kind of twattery. I see him as a wake-up call, as is Brexit. Unfortunately, those that are really responsible for the emergence of such are still asleep. What does it take?! Rolling Eyes I'm for more of it until the world does wake up.


Or cutting the bullshit, he's not Liberal enough for most left wingers, neither is Brexit.
I'd much rather have him in charge of the UK than May or Corbyn. I suspect I'm not alone either.


I kind of suspect you'd rather have Pol Pot though, and I'm drifting in that direction myself Laughing
Oh God, what did the world do to deserve such pathetic politicians and "leaders"? Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:
What exactly did he deliver?

My incomlete list as someone who doesn't give a f**k about US politics but still seems to be paying more attention than you Thinking
- tax reforms
- fite with China, whether you agree or disagree with it
- banning bump stocks, not a pledge but it shows the tw@ can react
- gave up on scrapping Obamacare but tried
- trying to build his wall even though he'll probably fail

He's a colossal arse and a complete shyster, yet he has already proven himself truer to his word than most politicians. What did Obama deliver on except for Obamacare which half the US seem to hate?


Last edited by -. on 14:01 - 31 Dec 2018; edited 1 time in total
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:


What exactly did he deliver?


Started peace talks with North Korea for the first time in history.
Historic tax cuts which have benefited all Americans.
Stopped the "catch and release" policy on illegal immigration.
Bolstered border security.
Stepped up protection of intellectual property theft by China China China.
Added 2,500,000 jobs to the US job market.
Cut red tape resulting in a booming economy.
On top of that he's travelled the world selling US business and encouraging trade deals.

But hey, what have the Romans ever done for us?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:
M.C wrote:

Its funny that he seems to be delivering or trying to deliver on his campaign pledges. Is that why politicians don't like him? Thinking


What exactly did he deliver?


To focus so obsessively on the man is to ignore the issues that put him where he is. What sleeping tablets did you take?! No, wait...you weren't one of the ones who was suffering. Phew, that's ok then! Laughing

Besides which, to blame him for the things he didn't deliver is kind of daft. You can't say he hasn't tried, and you don't want the things he promised anyway.
Do you think he'll get another term?
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
To focus so obsessively on the man is to ignore the issues that put him where he is. What sleeping tablets did you take?! No, wait...you weren't one of the ones who was suffering. Phew, that's ok then! Laughing

Besides which, to blame him for the things he didn't deliver is kind of daft. You can't say he hasn't tried, and you don't want the things he promised anyway.
Do you think he'll get another term?

I'll answer that one Smile He might not, not because the US would have rallied to defeat the uber nazi, but because it was voter apathy regarding that women which got him in the Whitehouse. Anyone else, even an inanimate object will do better.

And yes I agree, they'll paint Trump as defeating hatred, whilst ignoring the legitimate issues that put him there. Similarly with Brexit (you mentioned it Wink) we'll carry on with this unhealthy split towards both extremes of the political spectrum.

What a time to be alive Neutral
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 14:21 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
What exactly did he deliver?

My incomlete list as someone who doesn't give a f**k about US politics but still seems to be paying more attention than you Thinking
- tax reforms
- fite with China, whether you agree or disagree with it
- banning bump stocks, not a pledge but it shows the tw@ can react
- gave up on scrapping Obamacare but tried
- trying to build his wall even though he'll probably fail

He's a colossal arse and a complete shyster, yet he has already proven himself truer to his word than most politicians. What did Obama deliver on except for Obamacare which half the US seem to hate?


I specifically responded to your mention of delivering on his campaign pledges with a request for examples of promises he did deliver, so let's just skip things that he planned to try to attempt to aspire to dream about, and knee jerk reactions to random events.

Fancy trying again?
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-.
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:
M.C wrote:
My incomplete list as someone who doesn't give a f**k about US politics but still seems to be paying more attention than you Thinking
- tax reforms
- fite with China, whether you agree or disagree with it
- banning bump stocks, not a pledge but it shows the tw@ can react
- gave up on scrapping Obamacare but tried
- trying to build his wall even though he'll probably fail

He's a colossal arse and a complete shyster, yet he has already proven himself truer to his word than most politicians. What did Obama deliver on except for Obamacare which half the US seem to hate?


I specifically responded to your mention of delivering on his campaign pledges with a request for examples of promises he did deliver, so let's just skip things that he planned to try to attempt to aspire to dream about, and knee jerk reactions to random events.

Fancy trying again?

So the first two on my list? Eh? MPD listed a load more as he obviously pays more attention to US politics than I do Smile
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

- tax reforms
- fite with China, whether you agree or disagree with it


Tax reform: how do you consider the fact that the poorest are actually taxed more a success?

China: by what measure US is better off because of it?
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:

Tax reform: how do you consider the fact that the poorest are actually taxed more a success?


A blatant lie, aka "fake news"? It's not a "fact" is it, unless you believe the Anti Trump media.

Fact me till I fart...

Quote:
The numbers are now in. According to Congress' nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), the rich are now paying a higher share of federal taxes after enactment of the Republican tax reform plan than before.

For 2017, before tax reform, the JCT estimates those earning $1 million or more a year paid 19.5% of all federal taxes, counting income taxes, payroll taxes, and excise taxes. But for 2018, after tax reform, the committee estimates that these same millionaire taxpayers will pay 20.4% of all federal taxes.......

Those same economic effects of the tax reform amount to economic liberation for the poor, working people and the middle class. After 8 years of economic stagnation under the neo-socialist policies of Obamanomics, the rising wages, jobs, employment and income under the long overdue Trump Republican economic recovery are making America great again for those with low and moderate incomes.

Top economists estimate wages for average middle-class families are increasing by $4,000 a year due to tax reform. That's in addition to direct tax cuts of $2,000 a year for middle class families.

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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:


China: by what measure US is better off because of it?


Who do you mean by "US"? Think about that one, eh? Laughing
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:

Tax reform: how do you consider the fact that the poorest are actually taxed more a success?


A blatant lie, aka "fake news"? It's not a "fact" is it, unless you believe the Anti Trump media.

Fact me till I fart...


Fact you? With pleasure, dear sir, with pleasure.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/1-Distribution_of_Impact_per_Taxpayer_v1.png
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

Do you think he'll get another term?

I'll answer that one Smile He might not, not because the US would have rallied to defeat the uber nazi, but because it was voter apathy regarding that women which got him in the Whitehouse. Anyone else, even an inanimate object will do better.


He's got two more years yet, and the opposition doesn't do PR very well.
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-.
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:
M.C wrote:

- tax reforms
- fite with China, whether you agree or disagree with it


Tax reform: how do you consider the fact that the poorest are actually taxed more a success?

China: by what measure US is better off because of it?

a) I didn't say whether it was successful or not and b) as I recall the tax reforms were to encourage corporations back into the US.

On China AGAIN I didn't say whether it was successful or not Rolling Eyes and even stated it depends (on your position).

My point is he said he'd doing something and he's doing it Neutral
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:
mpd72 CPT wrote:

A blatant lie, aka "fake news"? It's not a "fact" is it, unless you believe the Anti Trump media.

Fact me till I fart...


Fact you? With pleasure, dear sir, with pleasure.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/1-Distribution_of_Impact_per_Taxpayer_v1.png


Oh dear....Forbes explains your mistake.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2018/07/25/was-the-tax-reform-regressive-proper-analysis-says-no/#39454f4b67a0

Quote:
Unfortunately, the JCTs analysis, like that of the Congressional Budget Office, other government agencies and D.C. think tanks, including the TPC, is static. It treats households as if they will live only in the current year and proxies their remaining lifetime spending, the distribution of which is the ultimate focus of inequality analysis, by their current disposal income.

This raises four major problems. The first is misclassification. The static approach classifies households as rich or poor based on current income (this year's income). But economics tells us that for purposes of studying fiscal fairness we need to classify households not by this second's, this minute's, this week's, this month's or even this year's income. Instead, it tells us to classify households based all on their remaining lifetime resources -- their human wealth (the present value of future labor earnings) plus their non-human wealth (current net worth).


The current-year income classification means that Warren Buffett, whose wealth totals $85 billion, will be classified as being poor this year if his reported after-tax income for this year is zero or negative. This can easily be the case if Buffett's net realized capital gains this year are negative and equal or exceed this year's other positive taxable income.

Youd expect mistake 1 to be made by people with limited economics training. But the folks in D.C. making this mistake are well trained economists and are doing so consciously. Their reason, when I ask, is that members of Congress, not to mention the current president, are too economically illiterate to process the right answer. Hence, they need to be given what makes them comfortable, namely the wrong answer.

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Mistake 2 is implicitly using current disposable (after-tax) income as a proxy for current spending. But the young, on average, save; i.e., on average, their income exceeds their spending. And the old, on average, dissave; i.e., on average, their spending exceeds their income. Given economic growth, this means that proxying spending with disposable income will overstate inequality in actual current spending, which is, itself, proxying for the right measure, remaining lifetime spending.

Mistake 3 is, indeed, using this year's spending to proxy for remaining lifetime spending the present value of current plus all future spending. If ignoring future spending made sense, we could study inequality by comparing the spending of different households over the next second or the next minute or the next hour or ... . But just like this seconds spending doesnt tell us much about this years spending, this years spending doesnt tell us much about remaining lifetime spending. Certainly, there is no fixed relationship between this year's and remaining lifetime spending. For the young, remaining lifetime spending is many times current-year spending. For the old, the multiple is far smaller.

Mistake 4 is comparing inequality of households of all ages rather than distinguishing by their age, i.e., their birth cohort. To see the concern, take a world in which everyone is absolutely identical, apart from their year of birth. Since everyone enjoys the same lifetime spending and pays the same lifetime taxes, there is no inequality. But if one compares young and old people at a point in time based on this year's income, things will look very unequal. The young, who work, will have far higher income than do the old, who are retired. Moreover, if only wages were taxed, this perfectly equitable fiscal policy would be viewed as progressive since those with higher incomes would pay taxes and those with lower incomes would not. And if only spending by the old were taxed, the policy would be declared regressive since those with lower incomes would pay taxes whereas those with higher incomes would not.

Economic theory tells us to study inequality by comparing remaining lifetime spending among people of the same age (in the same birth cohort). And it tells us to study fiscal progressivity by examining the degree to which fiscal policy reduces inequality in remaining lifetime spending within the same cohort. My recent study with U.C. Berkeley economist Alan Auerbach and Darryl Koehler an engineer at my software company, does just this. It runs household observations from the Federal Reserves 2016 Survey of Consumer Finances (SCF) through a detailed life-cycle consumption-smoothing program called The Fiscal Analzyzer (TFA). TFA determines how much each household will spend, pay in taxes and receive in government benefits in each year over the rest of their lives. These data can then be used to calculate remaining lifetime spending and remaining lifetime net taxes (taxes net of benefits). The program incorporates all federal and state taxes, including corporate income taxation, and all federal and state benefits, including food stamps, Supplemental Security Income, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, welfare (TANF), you name it.

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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2018/07/25/was-the-tax-reform-regressive-proper-analysis-says-no/#39454f4b67a0

Quote:
Unfortunately, the JCTs analysis, like that of the Congressional Budget Office, other government agencies and D.C. think tanks, including the TPC, is static. It treats households as if they will live only in the current year and proxies their remaining lifetime spending, the distribution of which is the ultimate focus of inequality analysis, by their current disposal income.

This raises four major problems.


Thanks, that's a very interesting opinion. Happy to wait till the data is in, i.e. how much tax certain income groups actually paid year by year compared to what they would have paid under the old system.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:

Thanks, that's a very interesting opinion. Happy to wait till the data is in, i.e. how much tax certain income groups actually paid year by year compared to what they would have paid under the old system.


I'm sure your chosen publication will manage to twist the figures to suit your agenda. Which is exactly how that Forbes article explained how the data sources for your fake news chart were skewed to create an anti Trump agenda. Thumbs Up

I presume you understood how it debunked your fake chart?
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:

Thanks, that's a very interesting opinion. Happy to wait till the data is in, i.e. how much tax certain income groups actually paid year by year compared to what they would have paid under the old system.


I'm sure your chosen publication will manage to twist the figures to suit your agenda. Which is exactly how that Forbes article explained how the data sources for your fake news chart were skewed to create an anti Trump agenda. Thumbs Up

I presume you understood how it debunked your fake chart?


It's actually amusing. You very soundly countered the projection I quoted with a sensible argument on why that projection may be incorrect, only to follow up with some shouting about twisting, agendas and fakes. What was wrong with being sensible?
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 02:22 - 26 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So fan bois, how's it going today for the bestest, winningest, POTUS ever?

The useless, orange oaf and lame duck president capitulates on the shutdown and the wall, the same day his closest adviser is indicted.

The "fake witch hunt" has so far caught and indicted a mere 48 witches.

A further 12 sealed criminal cases have been filed in the District Court over the last couple of days!

Remember, "Only the best people".
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MCN
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 26 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
So fan bois, how's it going today for the bestest, winningest, POTUS ever?

The useless, orange oaf and lame duck president capitulates on the shutdown and the wall, the same day his closest adviser is indicted.

The "fake witch hunt" has so far caught and indicted a mere 48 witches.

A further 12 sealed criminal cases have been filed in the District Court over the last couple of days!

Remember, "Only the best people".


Shut it...
I have some friends who are American.

I am offended by your slight on their President (on their behalf 😂)

A nation of children.

Unlike the UK. A nation of sheeps. 😂

Politics is the easiest game in town. Unless your name is Alex and were a 1st minister somewhere.
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 26 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
capitulates

If you've not worked out by now how The Donald operates you probably never will. Not sure who you think are the fanboys anyway, Rogerborg was the only one I remember who was pro-Trump for some reason.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 02:50 - 27 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
If you've not worked out by now how The Donald operates you probably never will.


Most people predicted exactly how he'd operate, the shouty ones refused to believe it!

M.C wrote:
Not sure who you think are the fanboys anyway, Rogerborg was the only one I remember who was pro-Trump for some reason.


Really? Rolling Eyes You can't think of one other member, pull the other one it's got bells on.
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 27 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
Most people predicted exactly how he'd operate, the shouty ones refused to believe it!

You called the North Korea situation, or peace talks in Afganistan? Eh? I'm fairly sure the opposite was predicted. F**k me if NorKor gives up its arsenal and peace is brought to the middle east, he must be up for a Nobel peace prize... after all Obama got one for doing nothing Smile

Suntan Sid wrote:
Really? Rolling Eyes You can't think of one other member, pull the other one it's got bells on.

Yes really, look back through this topic, he dislikes you more than he likes Trump Wink Rogerborg actually went into and defended Trumps policies.
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winz
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 27 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure it was Dennis Rodman who started peace talks with North Korea in 2013.
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 27 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

winz wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was Dennis Rodman who started peace talks with North Korea in 2013.

Joint peace prize? It was the winter olympics that seemed to thaw tensions, although I specifically remember the great minds of BCF saying Trump was wrong to engage with and legitimise the North Korean regime.
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