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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 11 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzoid wrote:
Xenaphobic maybe, but you can't be sure it was racist

I'm no Trump supporter, but he's very VERY pro America. Criticise the country that's supporting you in what you do and giving you a decent standard of living?


Non 'muricans get wound up about Trump but what we should be more concerned about is the cult of American exceptionalism. Trump is no more fixated on that fascistic concept than any of his predicessors.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 02:55 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on then Trumpet fans, what bit of super secret businessman genius tactics are we missing here? Do explain.

https://saraacarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/trump-letter-to-erdogan-full.jpg
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Come on then Trumpet fans, what bit of super secret businessman genius tactics are we missing here? Do explain.

https://saraacarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/trump-letter-to-erdogan-full.jpg


You are missing the whole point. I dislike Trump too. But attacking the man is neatly avoiding the issues. We have the same going on here with the Brexit 'debate'. Instead of tackling the issues raised, the opposition tries to deflect the arguments. Those arguments are not going to go away. Nationalist populism is not going to go away until the issues are addressed, at least, not in democracies. So we see that democracy is being wilfully undermined by the establishment now. Well, I just hope they have something better and ready to roll with which to replace it. Discard democracy at your peril!
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Discard democracy at your peril!


I quite agree, and what could be more democratic than asking for a current view on what the people want?

3... 2... 1...
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Discard democracy at your peril!


I quite agree, and what could be more democratic than asking for a current view on what the people want?

3... 2... 1...


Indeed. Do they want to remain in the EU which is undemocratic and plans to become more so, or keep our system of Parliamentary democracy? Wink

But if we must have any more votes on the subject, let's be sure to have a leave option. You know, like leave as in 'leave'.
Better still, let's have a general election. What could be more democratic than that?


1... 2... 3...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever you think of Trump he's a patriot. America first. We could do with one in No.10

Now I know patriot is a dirty word with the left and someone like Corbyn (an IRA and Hammas supporter. An anti British forces person and an rabid anti semitic) is as much nicer person to have running the country. I mean, he's no racist is he, he shagged Diane (is that cronyism as well?).

But hey, he's a leftie so must be OK. Thumbs Up
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Last edited by Polarbear on 15:50 - 17 Oct 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Discard democracy at your peril!


I quite agree, and what could be more democratic than asking for a current view on what the people want?

3... 2... 1...


And another 'current' view next year? Oh, better have another vote, and another, and another, and another........

The argument to me is we have never left the EU. Everything is pure speculation. If we had left and everything turned to ratshit then that could be a reason for a new referendum.

It could also be the best thing that ever happened to our country then we wouldn't need another referendum.

To say we need one when we haven't even left is pure political chicanery to overturn the result after 3 years of project fear. The fact they won't even put 'no deal' on any ballot shows that.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't you appreciate the opportunity to vote on whether BJ's deal is the way to go as opposed to WTO terms? If we had another referendum then you could... That is democracy.

Nothing wrong with tagging on a 'stay in' option either for an up to date view, given that years have elapsed since the last one.

I don't understand why people are reluctant to be asked in a more meaningful way now that we have a better idea of the implications of each scenario.

3... 2... 1...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Wouldn't you appreciate the opportunity to vote on whether BJ's deal is the way to go as opposed to WTO terms? If we had another referendum then you could... That is democracy.

Nothing wrong with tagging on a 'stay in' option either for an up to date view, given that years have elapsed since the last one.

I don't understand why people are reluctant to be asked in a more meaningful way now that we have a better idea of the implications of each scenario.

3... 2... 1...


Put your fishing rod down Diggs, you're a shit angler.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:


I don't understand why people are reluctant to be asked in a more meaningful way now that we have a better idea of the implications of each scenario.

3... 2... 1...


What kind of EU is it that you wish to remain a part of?

If another referendum has a "reformed EU" option, describing exactly what those reforms would be, then we might have a better idea of the implications of each scenario. Or even if it had an accurate description of where the EU is going on its current trajectory.

1... 2... 3...

Of course, none of this matters. I want out of the EU, lock, stock and barrel. My views have only been strengthened since the referendum. I am a nationalist. I am a patriot. I believe the EU runs counter to both those positions. I believe it is anti-democratic. Even if A50 gets revoked, I will still believe those things, until the EU demonstrates otherwise. So lets not bother going over the same old ground.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


Put your fishing rod down Diggs, you're a shit angler.


I usually do better than this... Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


Put your fishing rod down Diggs, you're a shit angler.


I usually do better than this... Laughing


No, I don't think you do Razz
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

National Doral Miami: Trump Florida golf course to host G7 summit

One of President Donald Trump's golf resorts in Florida will host the G7 summit next June, the White House says.

White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney denied President Trump would profit from the event.

The aide said "Donald Trump's brand is probably strong enough as it is", so he did not need a branding boost.

Mr Trump has previously said he is not involved with the daily operations of the Trump Organization and that his sons run the business.

Mr Mulvaney told reporters on Thursday that an advance team of scouts had started with a list of possible locations for the summit, including venues in California, Colorado, Hawaii, Florida, North Carolina, Michigan, Tennessee and Utah.

In the end, he said, it became apparent that Doral was by "far and away, the best physical facility for this meeting".

"In fact I was talking to one of the advance teams when they came back and I said, 'What was it like?' And they said, 'You're not going to believe this but it's almost like they built this facility to host this type of event.'"

The chief of staff said the event would be made available "at cost" and that using the Doral would save millions of dollars.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50087836
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Come on then Trumpet fans, what bit of super secret businessman genius tactics are we missing here? Do explain.

"Turkey has agreed to a ceasefire in northern Syria to let Kurdish-led forces withdraw.

The development followed talks in Ankara between US Vice-President Mike Pence and Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

All fighting will be paused for five days, and the US will help facilitate an "orderly withdrawal" of Kurdish-led troops from what Turkey terms a "safe zone" on the border, Mr Pence said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50091305
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpster charged with 2 articles of impeachment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50731010
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I regard Trump as the Americans Brexit.

He polarises views so there isn't much of a middle ground, you are for him or against him.

I think this is the 'establishment' in America trying to overturn something they don't want irrespective of the peoples views, just like Brexit over here.

I would be interested with Mentalboys view seeing as he is in America land.
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

I think this is the 'establishment' in America trying to overturn something they don't want irrespective of the peoples views, just like Brexit over here.


There is a lot of anti-establishment rhetoric from populists on both sides of the pond, but scratch their varnish lightly and lo, establishment appears.

Brexit is being peddled by extremely wealthy individuals; Trump is a billionaire who hangs out with princes. Anti-establishment my posterior.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:
Trump is a billionaire who hangs out with princes. Anti-establishment my posterior.


Yes but he's still technically an "outsider" at least politically and he's only 1st or 2nd generation rich - not proper "old money" Wink
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 03:33 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I regard Trump as the Americans Brexit.

He polarises views so there isn't much of a middle ground, you are for him or against him.

I think this is the 'establishment' in America trying to overturn something they don't want irrespective of the peoples views, just like Brexit over here.

I would be interested with Mentalboys view seeing as he is in America land.


I can't stand the bloke and haven't for a long while, it must be fifteen years since he screwed over small contractors at his first Scottish golf course.

I think he's done more than enough to be impeached but now was definitely the wrong time to go about it. The Democrats are stuck between a rock and a hard place, if they didn't go ahead with impeachment they'd lose a lot of support in the upcoming election, by going ahead with it they'll have fired up those opposed to it. In that respect very much like Brexit, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Either way the likely scenario is that we'll end up with another four years of the arsehole and if they really want to stick it to us then we'll get his slimy rat faced son in 2024 as well. Welcome to the Trump dynasty.

Capitalism rules here, so we can look forward to further revocation of environmental protections, Congress will have effectively been reduced to little more than an ineffectual bystander and the mega rich will continue in their pursuits of grabbing more dollars than they could ever spend in a lifetime. Now seems a good time to invoke the following phrase which will no doubt trigger the usual suspects. 'When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money.'
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Last edited by mentalboy on 23:12 - 11 Dec 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think he will get imoeached. I also think its swings and roundabouts in tbe long term and whatever happens with tbe impeachment hearings it wont effect the next election. Trump will lose and gain voters in equal measure.

There's a strong view that the US isn't really capitalist at all because it's not really a free market but is in fact very much controlled and done so for the benefit of a rich elite.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 12 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
...only then will we realize that one cannot eat money


Well, not now that we're swapping over to plastic notes and contactless payments, some basis for a conspiracy theory methinks Thinking Could probably get through some paper notes with decent Brown Sauce Wink

There are conspiracy theories going about that Trump has engineered this whole fiasco to make the Democrats look petty with the bonus that he gets to dispose of some moles in the White House before the next election.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 12 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


There are conspiracy theories going about that Trump has engineered this whole fiasco to make the Democrats look petty with the bonus that he gets to dispose of some moles in the White House before the next election.


Ah yes, the Trump is an evil genius theory. Its bolloks he's just that clumsy he would do something this stupid. Sure the faithful will cry foul but smarter more worldly republicans may see Trumps stupudity as a measure of what a liability he is.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 12 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

He does have form for dropping duff information just to see who starts crying; even before his presidency.

I don't think anyone would disagree that Trump is "politically unrefined" Wink but stupid? He outmanoeuvred the Democrats and, to a certain extent, his own party to get elected. Liability? He seems to be doing okay in the polls and the Democrats have managed to push up his approval ratings. The USA has yet to sink into the sea Rolling Eyes
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 12 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not very much into Trump watching. I think 'murica is an attention sink and Trump is just part of that.

My analysis is though that Trump has trotted out lots of crap but its crap that the poor want to hear. Of course there's a lit of poor to whip up support from and his messages are nice and simple. Tje Democrats have just failed to communicate anything meaningful to that group so lowering the bar for Trump and making it eady for him. So unless the Democrats can find someone who can feed some simple to digest populist fodder to the poor masses as well as keep the wealthier educated middle class happy, theyre fooked.

I always thought that New York Democrat mayoral candidate (ive forgotten his name and cant be bothered googlin) who screwed up by sexting would have made a good opponent for Trump. He was aggressive, brash, smart and modern . Unfortunately he was modern in a way that involved texting pictures of his knob.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 12 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
The USA has yet to sink into the sea Rolling Eyes


Miami does a good impression at high tide...
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