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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
That's a huge problem with the NHS, bureaucracy. If you even mention private the howling mob go mental even though privatisation does not necessarily equate to paying for medical treatment.


I think if you're just another cog in the system, you're more likely to just tick the boxes, since you only see your own tiny little bit of a process. But if you personally, literally have something invested in it, you're going to be a bit more careful how you throw money around. The question is, how to get some of that prudence transferred into a huge public organisation, which undoubtedly gives us some great benefits. Age-old discussion.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
That's a huge problem with the NHS, bureaucracy. If you even mention private the howling mob go mental even though privatisation does not necessarily equate to paying for medical treatment.


I think if you're just another cog in the system, you're more likely to just tick the boxes, since you only see your own tiny little bit of a process. But if you personally, literally have something invested in it, you're going to be a bit more careful how you throw money around. The question is, how to get some of that prudence transferred into a huge public organisation, which undoubtedly gives us some great benefits. Age-old discussion.


For starters, remove quotas on civil service numbers because you end up paying private industry a fuckload more than if you had the ability to do stuff like that in house.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:26 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


I think if you're just another cog in the system, you're more likely to just tick the boxes, since you only see your own tiny little bit of a process. But if you personally, literally have something invested in it, you're going to be a bit more careful how you throw money around. The question is, how to get some of that prudence transferred into a huge public organisation, which undoubtedly gives us some great benefits. Age-old discussion.


For starters, remove quotas on civil service numbers because you end up paying private industry a fuckload more than if you had the ability to do stuff like that in house.


Can you explain that in more depth?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every government department has a cap on manpower headcount and a budget. the budget will pay for a lot more headcount than the cap, so instead they pay outside contractors to do the work that could be done by civil servants.

the individual may be paid similar or slighly more than an equivelent civil servant but on top of that the contractor wants to offset their overhead and have a profit on top.

Than there's VAT which adds another 20%.

As a result you do far less with the same amount of money.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:50 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Every government department has a cap on manpower headcount and a budget. the budget will pay for a lot more headcount than the cap, so instead they pay outside contractors to do the work that could be done by civil servants.

the individual may be paid similar or slighly more than an equivelent civil servant but on top of that the contractor wants to offset their overhead and have a profit on top.


If there is an underspend from the budget, are they paying the right people to do the jobs? Could more use of that budget attract better quality manpower? In other words Nobby, are you crap at your job? Razz

Hides behind the sofa...
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:26 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a contractor masquerading as a limited company to avoid paying national insurance (see ir35) costs as much as a group captain with an engineering degree them we are wasting money.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we're getting a little off-track here Smile

Here's a lovely hit piece:

CNN wrote:
Former CIA Director Hayden backs Biden, warns reelecting Trump would be 'very bad' for America


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/07/politics/michael-hayden-endorses-joe-biden-cnntv/index.html

More opinion masquerading as news Sad Who is this Hayden fella anyway? Oh, that's right: CNN's national security analyst. Obviously totally unbiased.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


More opinion masquerading as news


That's not really fair. Most MSM gave up on pretending to be anything more than propaganda outlets years ago.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
The track and trace app cost 12 billion quid and it doesn't even work. WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?! I'm still seething about this. I make apps for a living, the one I'm currently working on is more complex and handles more data than a track and trace app, and our largest customer is paying something like 750k for it.


I have to disagree, according to you earlier in the thread, "I'm a programmer and I work from home now, I spend vast amounts of time clicking onto Facebook and reading vast streams of comments from people on all sorts of political articles that I follow on there"
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 07 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebel wrote:
How pissed are they he's bounced back immune after 4 days.

Yes, I noticed the MSM were hoping he'd keel over, and that Boris would be ousted by "Long Covid."

Trump is on a cocktail of aggressive and experimental symptom suppressors though, and he was visibly short of breath but trying not to show it.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 08:46 - 08 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and he was visibly short of breath but trying not to show it


I'm not sure that his out-of-breathness was COVID-related. He is an old bloke who just walked across some grass and up a flight of stairs.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 08 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Quote:
and he was visibly short of breath but trying not to show it


I'm not sure that his out-of-breathness was COVID-related. He is an old bloke who just walked across some grass and up a flight of stairs.


Luckily they've got the youthful Joe Biden as a choice Laughing
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 08 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
he was visibly short of breath but trying not to show it.


The journey back from the hozzie was quite eventful.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50435822027_4b0be7ecc6.jpg
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MCN
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PostPosted: 01:50 - 09 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw this moniker, Kameltoe Harris last week.

I know its a critique of The POTUS' oppostion part but I just wanted to put that out there.

🤣
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MCN
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PostPosted: 01:51 - 09 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
he was visibly short of breath but trying not to show it.


The journey back from the hozzie was quite eventful.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50435822027_4b0be7ecc6.jpg


He has a HD factory so that Kwaker the president is is fake news. (But he is doing a great job wheelying it.)
You're a terrible poster arry.
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Irezumi
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 09 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
That's a huge problem with the NHS, bureaucracy. If you even mention private the howling mob go mental even though privatisation does not necessarily equate to paying for medical treatment.

Funny that with all the vitriol spouted about America's insurance health system, no one ever mentions Germany's system which is an insurance based partially private system as well, the difference being that the poorest have a minimum level of health care irrespective.

NOTE - Minimum level of health care, not every level of health care.

Fully socialised healthcare systems generally do better than privatised ones statistically. This is for a broad range of outcome measures. The German system, which is fantastic, is still ranked behind the NHS by a few places most years. The Dutch however run a similar system which consistently ranks in the top 5. Purely private healthcare systems have poorer outcomes overall and lead to all sorts of problems, the administration bloating is even worse in America believe it or not.

There are lots of flaws with a privatised healthcare system such as undertaking orthopaedic procedures even when its not necessarily the best route to treat the pathology present. However a private system will do this as it earns them more money to do an operation, medicines and rehab rather than just sending to a physio and recommending attending the gym more etc.

A privatised healthcare system is not the answer and there is plenty of data out there to prove it. A combined one is pretty much the same as what we have with the NHS now so why bother altering it, would the benefits outweigh the costs?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:51 - 09 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

S9 the met are schrodinger's coppers? Institutionally racist and raving socialists at the same time?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 09 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
S9 the met are schrodinger's coppers? Institutionally racist and raving socialists at the same time?


Wrong thread, methinks. Clear evidence that socialism damages cognitive skills Laughing
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 09 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a handy, narrative, claiming the media are just out to get Trump.

He's had 4 years to:

a) Be gotten by them
b) Get them back
c) Pre-emptively get them before they get him

None of that has happened.

It seems to me that the blame-the-media line is just another "la la la I'm not listening" head-in-the-sand deflection from real truths and criticisms aimed at him. Sure, not all of it is correct, but that's how it goes for most politicians at the top of the food chain. Trump is known widely for being a not-very-nice person to work with or do business with, his tax returns are still unknown, and he got way too close for comfort in the whole Jeffrey Epstein case, plus his personality on the whole is just awful. He's an easy target for the media, and even if you ignore the media aspect completely it's just obvious he isn't a particularly nice person and has no real interest in making America great again. He just wanted to get to the top, playing kings and queens, a bit like our own charlatan Boris Johnson. Anyone who supports Trump is just a sucker to the most obvious form of populism there is. I for one cannot wait for a return to boring politics as usual, where sensible and boring anoraks talk about boring politicsy things while the plebs are left to play merrily among themselves.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 09 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just watched the once satirical comedy known as HIGNFY and it was all about criticising Boris and Trump. Starmer only got a, "He's good isn't he." Radio 4's News Quiz is similar. Fair enough, Boris and Trump are ripe for satire (and Trump in particular is a dangerously narcissistic loon) but Corbyn and Starmer's lot are equally hopeless, yet they get a free pass. If you don't detect that you're being told what to think you've already bought it.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 09 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw Biden on the tele last night and he looked like Mr Dead out of Harry Enfield.
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