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First time taking a pillion passenger - thoughts

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Johanna
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: First time taking a pillion passenger - thoughts Reply with quote

Now that I've had my CBR650F and full licence for a few weeks and done a bit of filtering, a bit of motorway riding... I thought it's time to take a passenger and see how I get on.

So this morning I put my boyfriend (who has a CBT and is doing his Mod 2 soon so knows the feel of riding) on the back of the bike and did a quick 50 mile ride with a coffee stop.

I thought I'd share my experiences for any other new riders getting to the point of taking a passenger (and of course get any feedback from the pros).

I adjusted the rear shock preload, but still noticed how far down the back of the bike sank when he got on. He's not heavy (about 12 stone) but I'm about 10.5 stone myself and of course his weight is way back so will compress the rear more. Still - it felt strange.

Setting off from the house I felt really unstable. Of course there were several oncoming cars immediately on my narrow road so I had to wobble over to the side. It was a bit scary, but I thought I need to get used to it and it's sure to get better.

Pulling out onto a bigger road I was surprised how grunty and slow the acceleration was. Of course I knew to expect it but still the bike felt like a tractor in comparison to the normal fun zoom to speed.

Braking was fine. I gave myself extra space and time to slow down, but my passenger immediately slid forward into my seat. He later complained that his textile trousers were so slippery on my seat - he had to keep shimmying back onto the pillion seat (yeah, yeah). When he was too far forward I felt cramped and it was a bit more awkward to balance in slow traffic.

What else... well, junctions, pedestrian crossings, all those situations where I would comfortably stop and put my foot down before... they were all awkward. The bike was so heavy. It took longer to stop, he'd slide forward, then the bike would take longer to get going. I stalled twice. Once starting up hill (my "normal" start was not good enough) and once when I had to stop suddenly for people standing in the road after a sharp corner and I was in too high a gear.

Coming back home everything was easier. I accelerated a little more, I braked a little bit more confidently, I felt more stable turning corners in town. Maybe that was partly due to both of us feeling more relaxed as well as having a bit more experience. The bike had started feeling lighter.

It was pretty good. Glad I tried it. We definitely both prefer to be riding our own bikes solo though!
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see no question marks...Giving my thoughts [/pedanticmode]

Refer to owner's manual for suspension settings and tyre pressures.

Tell the pillion when they can get on and off. Make a note of road surface and camber when coming to a stop to let them off.

Are your slow riding skills good when solo? If not don't take a pillion just yet. Dragging a little rear brake is helpful in keeping the bike stable at walking pace. Infact the rear brake will/should be getting more use than when solo. Use it when coming to a stop to reduce the dive of the front, you've got more weight on the back of the bike so use more rear brake in general. Good for slow speed maneuvers too.

Ask the pillion to read the road too so when that gimp pulls into your lane they're ready too. Same goes for the rare but it happens emergency stop. Show the pillion how to brace themselves. Traffic light MotoGP starts are attainable to a degree if the pillion knows how to brace properly.

Pillions can be fickle and some may prefer to hold around you instead of using grabrails. Don't take those types on long hauls as they make you uncomfortable.

They don't move right! Unless you come to an agreement where they tap a part of your body to let you know they're having a stretch.
Body taps are a apart of taking pillions. Tap their right knee - Hold on hunny we're entering warp speed. They tap left side - Steady on old bean I've just seen my tampon fly down lane 3 at 130.

Braking distances are crap(er).
Pillions should wear same gear as you.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever happens, make sure you explain him/her not to put his/her feet down when you are stationary. It's annoying, when people on the pillion seat try to reach the ground with their feet, and might result in exhaust burns. It also may result in dropping the motorcycle, as some people are desperate to touch the ground with their feet when the motorcycle is not moving.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't take ste pillion because he'll get his foot caught on the panniers, pulling the bike over resulting in you ruining the already damaged shoulder keeping it off the twrmac. Evil or Very Mad
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grr666
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's always easier if you weigh more than your passenger. Harder if they weigh more than you. My father in law must
have 4 stone on me and he was hard work to take home on the back of the scoot. He wouldn't ge on the back of the Spacker at all. Laughing
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kgm
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hated having a pillion at first. Now (with different bikes) I actually enjoy it. My advice is this.

Rev out a little more before changing gear with a pillion. It's smoother.

Get him to grip you with his legs when breaking. It'll stop him sliding forward with you gripping the tank. You can also get grippy webbing for the pillion seat (like tribo seat). Use a little more rear brake than normal when stopping.

Have him sit like a sack of potatoes. If he's used to riding he might try to lean. It's best if he just sits in line with the bike as if he's a bit of luggage and does nothing, leaving the leaning to you.

If he needs to adjust his position he can do it on the move, in a straight line. A fidgety pillion is a danger when stationary.

Some bikes just aren't great with a pillion. I hated it will help my er6. The front became too light and it didn't feel stable, even riding in a straight line was awkward. No such issues with my vfr or my cx500, barely notice the pillion in those.
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Johanna
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips, folks!

It seems he was a very good pillion. He didn't try to put his feet down and he only adjusted his position when we were going in a straight line. I barely noticed him in corners so his body position must have been good.

The tip about rear brake sounds good. I'll try to use more rear brake next time if it keeps the front from diving.

The "things to tell the pillion" will be useful for other people I may ride with.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

"You, PILLION... YOU, luggage! Be like sack of spuds! Do not lean; do not wriggle, BE sack of spuds!"

That's where you start!

The pillion "kiss", like a glasweiegen one from behind, is a perennial. Its a reminder to rider to be smooth! Very smooth!

In recent years, if not in general, I have probably done as many or more mile 2-up as solo, I actually quite like it, it gives me reason to be smooth, be disciplined, and 'behave' a bit, rather than take the liberties I do when solo.

B-u-t.... Pillion riding is something of a Dying-Art I think....

Side anecdote; Grab a coffee, and find a comfee chair, Jac'O'Nory, time!

When I was about 16, I had to pop in to a Yamaha main dealers for yet another pair of crank-case seals for my DT50... which is another long anecdote! But the 'Boss' wanted something for his TZ race bike, so I was wandering around the showroom sizing up '350 eLCies' for when I was 17... and very condescending salesman, used to teen-oiks leaving sticky finders on the eLCies, wandered over, smiled and asked if I wanted a poster... on the basis most teens couldn't afford a brand new motorbike, and I obviously wasn't old enough to take out an HP deal...

https://i0.wp.com/www.bike-urious.com/wp-content/uploads/Bimota-HB2-Right-Side1.jpg?fit=864%2C544&ssl=1

That is a Bimota HB2; a delectable creation of hand crafted Italian alloy and Honda CB900 engine; Now, its a collectors wet-dream; then, it was just a slightly out-of-date 'Special', and was sat on the show-room, about 5/6 years old, without a price tag, and when Boss came to find me, whilst he waited for store-man to find the right micro-fishe, gained his attention... and that of salesman, who tried his 'pitch'.... on the Boss, as more likely buyer, but was quickly rebuked because it had lights! But, boss had let slip that I actually could afford a brand new eLCie, and he quickly changed pitch, and persona, and tried selling it to me!

Time to cry! THAT, a piece of hand crafted automotive art, a collectors wet dream, and I could have owned it for under TWO GRAND!!!! Cry! I hate to nightmare what one would command these days! But still!

But I walked away because it had no pillion seat! {shakes head furiously!}

Seriously! I had, even as a tender-teen, decided dirt-bikes for the dirt, track-bikes for the track, and road bikes for the road; and a road bike should be all-round comfortable and have two seats!

Anyway... my life-time has seen bikes move from being as was in the old days, the working-mans way-to-work, to become much more a bit of leisure equipment, like a multi-gym or fishing rod, a toy for after-work, rather than means of transport to get there.

There was also still a lingering attitude that 'big' bikes, and that was anything over 350cc back then, were for loons, old men (anyone probably over 30!), or pulling side-cars!

Back then anything over 500cc was still referred to as a 'Leg-Breaker', probably because with points ignition, if they slipped, they'd kick-back, when you tried kick-starting one, and break your leg! Oh yes! Another anecdote involving the boss, who did just that on his new Yamaha XT500, and when I laughed... oh dear.... told me it was a 'mans-bike', and when I could start it, I could ride it.... so I did! .... I'd read the owners book, and been intrigued by the instructions to use the 'De-compressor!... Lol... Precocious? Que Moi? No, Boss's mutterings of "Dat little B'st'd" probably more apt! LoL

Anyway, 'The Spice-Girls' were still thankfully a decade away from a record contract! But, intriguing to note that until the mid to late 90's, when girls started doing an Aretha and getting bike licences, frequently scorning the tiddlers and going straight to big-bikes via-das, with the aid of an electric boot, a woman in leathers was most often a pillion bunny, not a rider.

THAT is probably an anecdote of five in its own right; my 'Part 1' test examiner was a woman... we think... no one dared ask! But still...

In biking's resurgence bikes have got bigger, and a 650, isn't considered a leg-breaker any-more, its a newby bike! And women are no longer content to sit on the back looking at an ugly ape's crash-hat for hours on end, and been getting thier own licences and bikes for over quarter of a century.

Meanwhile, 'the-boys' have been tending towards ever-more specialised life-style implements, like cruisers or more often race-replicas, ever less pillion friendly, and going solo.

And its probably rather self-perpetuating. In years gone by; folk would buy 'big' Suzuki GS850's or Moto-Guzzi California's with huge 'King & Queen' touring seats, and come the factory shut-down, off they'd go, 2-up to the south of France or wherever. As less and less have bought such big bikes, and more and more have bought plastic-fantastic race-replica's, the pillion seat has shrunk, the pillion pegs became ever more an after-thought, and bikes ever more solo, rider-only, machines... and pillions have gone ang got there own.

The-Boyz, these days seldom get their licences on a tiddler, learning to manage having more weight above than between the wheels, the heavier wight of bigger bikes they tend to go straight to, being naturally more forgiving to ride, the 'smooth' that a tiddler can instill is never acquired, and as the bikes are less pillion friendly, so are the riders, and the trait compounds to deter 2-upping.

A-N-D?!?!? Well, maybe not such a bad thing, but the skills that are required by, and instilled by 2-Up riding DO make you more considerate, and instill more 'smooth', and those CAN be very very useful when riding solo.... even if you choose to use them to take more liberties with the less-heavily loaded bike, and be a bit more exuberant riding 'solo'....

B-U-T..... and this is the significant bit of the recital... having started with the quip, "You is luggage; be like a sack of spuds!" the advice to new pillion bunnies, they AREN'T!

And on a bike, it's not like a car, chucking a passenger in the spare seat and tying them down with a webbing strap, and the biggest worry is them fiddling with the stereo critasising your taste in music!

On a bike, the luggage DOES have much more influence over how the bike behaves; so it IS a partnership; you have to have confidence that your pillion will do the right thing... be sack of spuds... not do the wrong thing, like try lean the wrong way round corners! Or generally upset the balance of the bike whilst you are riding. Conversely, YOUR PILLION has to have confidence in you, and trust that you will do your bit, and not fall off!

A-N-D... riders tend to make VERY bad pillions.....

They try and 'Ride' from the pillion seat. They will often be looking over your shoulder trying to see up the road and predict whats coming; they will try and lean before you corner, they will try and pick the bike up mid corner, they can be TERRIBLE.....

YES, SNOWIE (My Rider O/H!) YOU ARE!!!!!

Luckily, I am 6'2" is and a barn door or a bloke, and she grumbles she 'has' to move around on the bunny, because otherwise all she gets to see is the nape of my neck! But, as a rider... yeah, she IS a bit of a nightmare, and NOT able to see ahead so well, she is even more unpredictable!

And yes.. even gentle braking, and no excuses about textile trousers or auto-glym'ed seats... she DOES have tendency to try and castrate me on the petrol tank! Though I suspect that's NOT entirely accidental!

Perversely, she will wait to wiggle! I'll slow for a set of traffic lights or similar, and she will have crept forwards on the seat for five miles or so; then when I have stopped... she'll tilt bike left and right a little having a look round.. then wait... and JUST as I start to pull away, when lights have changed.... bike will 'bounce' up down, for-aft, and side to side... as she spots the amber, and decides "Oh! Better get myself comfy, and back on the pillion seat" AHRGH!!!!

Mini-Moog? My daughter... lets see... no cant find it... I have a picture of her some-where sat on the tank of my VF1000 when she was about two! She'd hear it at the top of the street, and would jam her walker in the gate-way and wouldn't let me in, unless I picked her up and rode her down the garden on the tank! She's been pillion on my bikes all her life, and she's at university now! She been doing it a L-O-N-G wile!

And trust, built over the years, plus the fact she's about as heavy as a packet of crisps, wringing wet! I can almost forget she's there... infact, on a trip to wales a couple of years back I probably did, and she caused absolute consternation, to my mother, following in a car, because daughter was doing gymnastics on the bunny, taking photo's with her smurf-phone as we went! Standing on the pegs, leaning off the side, bouncing around to get the shots she wanted! Granny nearly had a coranory!

And to put that into perspective? Granny's dad (my granddad) was in the Uganda police force, when she was my daughter's age, and grew up a paddock-brat, watching my Granddad do twelve man pyramids with the display team for Queen Lizzies coronation tour, and stuff, and one of the old family photo's we have is of her sat handing my granddad spanners, while he changed the sprockets on an Arial flat-track racer, when she was about three! Its NOT like granny has never encountered a motorbike!!!

It IS a partnership; and when I get on the back, I have to consciously think "Sack of Spuds" to myself and NOT give the rider an unnecessarily hard time, either from ignorance or being a rider.

And that takes practice; and trust building. And as rider you DO have to get that confidence in yourself before you can offer any to your bunny, and you DO have to get to know how they behave on the back... or misbehave!

Its NOT something you can be taught; principles are there, and advice can be offered, but people are curious creatures; and one minute a pillion may be brilliant... be warned they are probably scared rigid! Next, they can be completely random, either scared into doing 'something', like leaning against you when you try turn, OR getting a bit more relaxed... trying to lean FOR you when you try turn, or deciding to answer their phone, or take a photo, or see if they can get the drink out the panniers!

Its ALL practice and experience, and as CBT/DAS advice and test questions, remembering things like adjusting rear suspension and tyre pressures before carrying a pillion; being smooth, giving yourself extra room, to accelerate and to brake and to turn, and more, margin for when they DO do the unpredictable, like lean the wrong way, or headbutt your hat.

BUT, confidence is key; and being able to give your pillion confidence, so that they are more relaxed and less unpredictable, begs that YOU have that confidence to start with... THEN the trust building can begin.

But it IS all good, and will help not just your 2up riding, but your solo riding too.

JUST be aware, that if O/H has done CBT and is planning on DAS, as he becomes a rider, he'll get ideas about riding, and is likely to become LESS predictable as a pillion, and YOU as rider will have more work to do, to leave margin and make transparent compensations...

A-N-D its NOT something to just give up on, and dismiss if he gets his own licence and bike.... its still a very useful skill, that will make you a much more rounded, competent and confident rider, solo or carrying a bunny, or just some shopping!
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 01 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than write a wall of text, I'll summarize.
Bikers make the worst pillions, they often tend to act as though they were in the driving seat and move as they normally would, which doesn't work when someone else is in control and enters/exits corners, brakes, filters etc in a different way to them.

To summarize Tef - if they don't sit like a sack of spuds give them money for the bus.

Not a problem when your pillion is 8 stone lighter than you because they don't affect handling so much, however, when the bike wallowing because it's got over 20 stone on it and the pillion is a chunky monkey it can be 'interesting'!
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tactical_pancake
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 03 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found most of it was just a matter of practice. You'll improve a lot in your first few rides then it sort of evens out.

In my experience bigger bikes tend to be more pillion friendly, although taking a pillion on a 125 or 250 can be a lot of fun. As said the relative weight of the rider / pillion can affect things a lot, and how good the pillion is at 'pillioning'.

I personally end up with both feet down a lot more at lower speeds in traffic (compared to solo riding), rather than relying on rear brake, just because if the pillion does something retarded below walking pace it can throw you off balance, and you will of course know to only use front brake in a straight line. And you have to be a lot more conservative filtering.

Soon you will graduate to a pillion and luggage and be pushing the very physical limits of what can (rather than should) be carried on a motorbicycle. Note that a big backpack on the pillion can obscure the rear brake light.

Even after years you will still feel out of sorts for the first few minutes as you adjust from solo to having a passenger, both ways. Don't discount the adjustment when you drop a passenger off, especially on smaller bikes.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 03 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

tactical_pancake wrote:


In my experience bigger bikes tend to be more pillion friendly,


That's pretty much a given. I could take anyone on my Wing or Trophy and hardly notice it.

My busa wasn't so nice though, I was more worried about chucking them off the back. Laughing

A 650 is a nice size to get used to a pillion with (as long as it isn't a sports bike). It's big enough to cope and small enough for you to notice and get used to the differences being 2 up.

In the end though unless you have big tourer, bikes are more fun as solo machines where you don't have to worry about what the wazzock on the back is daydreaming about or if he/she is going to grab your tits/balls for the giggles.
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Johanna
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 03 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha. I rode to work today (first ride after the pillion ride) and I've never felt so well balanced and smooth! I'm sure it's just in comparison to Saturday rather than any actual improvement.
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owl
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 03 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good reason to remove the rear pegs, so you don't have to Laughing
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hedgehugger
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PostPosted: 14:12 - 03 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found that after taking a pillion, the first ride after the bike feels like it has a very light front end.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 03 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

owl wrote:
Good reason to remove the rear pegs, so you don't have to Laughing


Wouldn't that be a MOT fail? Here, nowhere country in Europe, this would be a MOT fail and even the local 5-0 would give you a fine for that.
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owl
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 03 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:

Wouldn't that be a MOT fail? Here, nowhere country in Europe, this would be a MOT fail and even the local 5-0 would give you a fine for that.


From what I've been told/lead to believe, if you have a pillion seat you should have pegs, if not you don't then you don't need them.

On my striple, I had the pillion sets removed, but also had a rear cowl covering the back seat, which is apparently fine.

Most MOT testers won't fail you though, someone on here recently said they changed test centre's the old one had no problem with it and the new one warned him and told him just bring them with next time.

Definitely something to be aware of though.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 03 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
owl wrote:
Good reason to remove the rear pegs, so you don't have to Laughing


Wouldn't that be a MOT fail? Here, nowhere country in Europe, this would be a MOT fail and even the local 5-0 would give you a fine for that.


Conscientious one; a bike doesn't have to have two seats, and what passes for a seat is rather debatable.

If like an old Lambretta the bike has two distinct sprung saddles, it has two seats, so 'must' have appropriate feet-rests for rider and passenger.

However, if it has a 'duel-seat' margins are merged; when is a duel-seat just a long solo-seat?

When bikes oft had a grab-strap over the seat, that was often presumed to denote a duel-seat; they have long departed; a grab-rail was used to suggest it was a duel-seat, but has been argued that a grab-rail is just for man-handling the bike, not for a passenger.

Its basically down to the MOT testers 'discretion' here in the UK.
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