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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 12 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

Arrow Full fairing with decent weather protection

Yeah, I've had her in a serious downpour. She didn't blink, and although my gear was wet, I wasn't sopping as I would have been on a naked bike.

MarJay wrote:

Arrow Comfortable - not too racy.

Check. Even with my knackered shoulder and wrist.

MarJay wrote:

Arrow Decent torque, able to easily cruise on the motorway

It's a 100BHP V4 - Plenty of torque, will sit in 6th and tickle over on a motorway.

MarJay wrote:

Arrow Not tons of money, I can't afford it!

You can pick tatty one's up from £500, decent ones are £1000 and up. Spares readily available - most problems are fixed, and the bugbears are well known about. Just bear in mind - They're heavy.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 12 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
Decent torque, It's a 100BHP V4 - Plenty of torque, will sit in 6th and tickle over on a motorway.


You’re not joking, I was on the motorway on the way to work, it’s 5:30 on a Sunday morning and there’s nothing around, so I thought I’d give it the beans, just to see what happened. Nearly dislocated both wrists in 6th gear going up hill. Backed off at 120ish because it just wasn’t running out of puff.

The only major thing to look out for is a rusty exhaust, had a mechanic tell me that new downpipes are more than I paid for the bike.
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Last edited by dydey90 on 08:57 - 13 Sep 2018; edited 2 times in total
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 12 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
The only major thing to look out for is a rusty exhaust, had a mechanic tell me that new downpipes are more than I paid for the bike.


Most bikes will have a stainless system on by now. The pipes are spaghetti, there's a fair bit of work in making a system for them. I'm lucky, I have a spare set including collector, and the existing one is stainless as well.
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Thundercat as my first bike as I loved them when I was younger. Got a 2003 ZX6R now, and while it's a great bike and I enjoy riding it, it's not quite a bike from my youth like the early blades, VFR, Zx9r etc.

Would love a white VFR 750 Mr. Green
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 08:12 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

plodtastic
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ZRX61
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't see those in the US these days, Suzuki bought them back owing to the frame cracking issues. Mate went through 3 frames before he was paid off & used the money to buy a new GoldWing.


Fisty wrote:

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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first memory of motorcycles was my uncles Norton sidecar outfit in the mid 1960's as a young boy. I had my first bike aged 13 - a Greeves 225 scrambler. Did the traditional 2 stroke thing in 70's and inevitably ended up on IL4's which took me through the 1980's and 90's. Every generation of bike was better than what went before. Faster, better brakes, better handling and more reliable.

Fast forward to where we are now. It's easy to criticise modern tech on bikes but is it really justified. I've had a few bikes now with ABS and it doesn't make the slightest difference to how I use the brakes. I practice very hard braking, particularly in the spring when I've had little bike time over the winter. There have been a few times when the ABS has cut in when I've been taking it easy and conditions have been good. This is where I believe it's worthwhile and benign - It's in the background till it's needed. Traction control - my V-STROM has it and other than curtailing wheelies I've never been aware of it activating in the wet or dry unless I'm trying to get it to come on. Again I'm starting to come around.
I've recently had some test rides on modern bikes with semi-active suspension and fuck me - how anyone can't like this is beyond me. Emission regulations are driving advances. New BMW boxer engines with VVT make more power, use less fuel and pollute less. All bike manufacturers are going down this road - is this a bad thing?
Apart from the fact that bikes get ever more expensive and less and less home serviceable, I think modern bikes are wonderful in the exact same way I thought the bikes of the previous decades were great
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enduro Numpty wrote:

Apart from the fact that bikes get ever more expensive


Tut Tut You're not getting away with dismissing this so easily!
Bikes are becoming the prerogative of the few. Since biking is largely a leisure pursuit anyway, and one with a limited following at that, it'll likely promote their demise sooner than otherwise. With all the hoops one has to jump through to ride them, ever tightening emissions regulations and all the rest, who'd get into motorcycling now? It is becoming an ever more exclusive club.

And the last few years have seen it propped up by our lot - those who have done well by the times we lived through, inheritances from our parents and so forth. It's not looking like that's set to continue.

Not that I should care. I had some great biking times Mr. Green
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really have at least 2 separate demarcations for bike ownership, the toy and the commute. Both are getting hit. The commute in cities from push bikes and electric assist bikes. The toys because they are expensive and don't interest many coming through now.

It used to be cheap and easy to get into bikes and get some decent machinery for not too much. Now the only relative cheapy is insurance when compared to a car if you are young.

Whether it's the same abroad for bikes as toys I don't know but Harley's demographic is climbing into the coffin as we speak, they must be worried as hell Laughing

Edited to add - The cheapest Goldwing is over £26000 (the most expensive nearly £30000 Shocked ) The Ducati Pinigale from £20000 to £34000.

OK, these are top of the range bikes but people can't afford this sort of money for toys until much later in life. I could have bought a top of the range Triumph Trident or Norton Commado on tick with no problems on my wages at 20 years old.
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 06:26 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The expense of bikes these days is horrendous. It's the same with cars. I don't have an answer for this but my point was that the tech is, for the most part, a good thing. I certainly wouldn't go back to the hinged in the middle frames, shite brakes and elastic chains of yesteryear. I work my butt off and I suppose I should consider myself lucky that I can. I just love being up at 5.30, 6 days a week.

It would seem to me that sooner or later only the wealthiest in society will be able to have their own powered, personal transport. Depletion of resources and the effect we're having on the planet plus what seems to be a race to the bottom in terms of wages in the ever increasing quest for profitability for the few are seeing to that.
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G
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

1998 CB500 - RRP was £4085.
A 2018 CB500 RRP is £5099.

Accounting for inflation, if the price had stayed level, it should be £7067 this year.

Okay, the new bike is lower spec as far as performance goes and probably lower build quality too (though maybe a few more toys.)

But overall, bike prices at this end have gone down, not up.

Also; on absolute terms; you can now get a 200hp decent spec track bike for under £7k.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enduro Numpty wrote:
The expense of bikes these days is horrendous. It's the same with cars. I don't have an answer for this but my point was that the tech is, for the most part, a good thing. I certainly wouldn't go back to the hinged in the middle frames, shite brakes and elastic chains of yesteryear.


Some of the tech is good, I guess. And no, we absolutely don't want a return to the evil-handling stuff of yesteryear. Although part of me is strangely glad I got to experience it Confused

But if you have great handling, great brakes with good feel, great tyres etc, doesn't it mean there is less need for much of the tech?

I think I have had one crash where ABS would have saved the day (but also, if I'd had the brake pads I was used to, I think it might have been avoided). Maybe that's enough to justify it, I don't know. I can't think of any situation I've ever been in when I wished I'd had traction control. I have a bike now with suspension I rate highly enough not to feel the need for 'active', whatever that is. I've never had a bike that made me think, "I wish I had some way to control the power delivery other than the throttle."
I suppose this doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy riding a bike that has all that.

What we need is choice. What we don't need is politicians and industry figures telling us we must have this or that tech.

Otoh, if you've known nothing but tech, I guess you'd be wondering what all the fuss is about, assuming you have the money to pay for it.
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, sort of glad I rode early seventies bikes. Makes me appreciate the progress over the years.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
1998 CB500 - RRP was £4085.
A 2018 CB500 RRP is £5099.

Accounting for inflation, if the price had stayed level, it should be £7067 this year.

Okay, the new bike is lower spec as far as performance goes and probably lower build quality too (though maybe a few more toys.)

But overall, bike prices at this end have gone down, not up.

Also; on absolute terms; you can now get a 200hp decent spec track bike for under £7k.


Do the same for a 70's bike G. including wages and I very much doubt you will get the same result.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
G wrote:
1998 CB500 - RRP was £4085.
A 2018 CB500 RRP is £5099.

Accounting for inflation, if the price had stayed level, it should be £7067 this year.

Okay, the new bike is lower spec as far as performance goes and probably lower build quality too (though maybe a few more toys.)

But overall, bike prices at this end have gone down, not up.

Also; on absolute terms; you can now get a 200hp decent spec track bike for under £7k.


Do the same for a 70's bike G. including wages and I very much doubt you will get the same result.


This may be the more apt point, actually. If G is right, then maybe it's not the fault of manufacturers and ever-increasing amounts of tech. But they'll still need to adapt to a changing reality if they want to continue selling bikes in this country. Maybe they won't. Maybe they'll just sell elsewhere. Or maybe they'll make enough profit from the rich folks still buying.
But it's a shame that the scenario Polarbear and others remember no longer seems to exist. Maybe even the cheaper price for performance that 2 strokes represented explains some of the change. But we're not allowed to miss those Sad
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G
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

1977 CB500T was £915 apparantly - £6276 in today's money.
However a 1978 CX500 was £1,249.00, which comes out at £7394.

Both choices still a good bit more expensive than today's prices.

What is a factor for many is the cost of living in popular places - if you choose to live in London now, you're likely to be spending a lot more of your wage on that than if you did in the 70s, for instance.

This was the site I used for the comparisons, by the way: https://inflation.iamkate.com/ .
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

But we're constantly told that the gap between rich and poor is increasing, with more and more people being affected for the worst. So comparative inflation figures have little value in reality?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
But we're constantly told that the gap between rich and poor is increasing, with more and more people being affected for the worst. So comparative inflation figures have little value in reality?


OK, bikes may be relatively cheaper now (although it doesn't seem like that to me) according to inflation and it's down to other aspects, as in rent or house prices eating your income.

I don't think there was the huge price disparity of different models back then though. I bought a Suzuki GT500 for around £1000 back in 1977. From what I remember a Triumph Bonneville cost around £1400 and the GT500 was a cheap bike and the Bonny an expensive one.

Maybe it's rose coloured glasses and I am swirling in a cloud of senility but I bought 2 brand new bikes on Merchant navy cadets wages while at college, an RD250 and then the GT500 and I don't remember it being a struggle financially or to get credit for them.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


Maybe...I am swirling in a cloud of senility


Don't knock it, there's a lot to be said for swirling in a cloud of senility. It's cheaper than paying for recreational drugs, in any case Very Happy
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G
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a good bit of it now is that there is a significantly bigger difference between 'cheap bikes' and 'top end' bikes?
The GT500 and Bonny aren't THAT different if you put the two next to each other.
A CB500 and a S1000RR are massively different in comparison. Even bikes like the earlier Goldwing were a lot less "extreme" in what they provided compared to 'normal' bikes.

chickenstrip wrote:
But we're constantly told that the gap between rich and poor is increasing, with more and more people being affected for the worst. So comparative inflation figures have little value in reality?

And yet also; the absolute standard of living is also contantly improving for everyone pretty much. Or at least the abilitiy to have a better standard of living if you make an effort.

You might think that those using the polotics of jealousy have an agenda along ideological grounds over actually wanting the best for people Smile.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Perhaps a good bit of it now is that there is a significantly bigger difference between 'cheap bikes' and 'top end' bikes?
The GT500 and Bonny aren't THAT different if you put the two next to each other.
A CB500 and a S1000RR are massively different in comparison


Hmm, I don't think that's a fair comparison. Convince me that it is?


Quote:
And yet also; the absolute standard of living is also contantly improving for everyone pretty much. Or at least the abilitiy to have a better standard of living if you make an effort.

You might think that those using the polotics of jealousy have an agenda along ideological grounds over actually wanting the best for people Smile.


I'm not replying to that, simply on the grounds that we're starting to drag politics into yet another thread Shocked
We'll be talking about B...you-know-what next Crying or Very sad
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G
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you think is unfair about it?

Both single front disc, twin cylinder unfaired motorcycles.
Both just under 200kg. 34hp vs 49hp. (0.68hp/cc vs 0.65hp/cc)

Both just under 200kg.
New CB500 - single front disc, twin cylinder unfaired motorcycle making 47hp.
S1000RR - twin front disc four cylinder motorcycle with a whole raft of electronics making 199hp.
(0.094hp/cc vs 0.20hp/cc)

I think there's good reason the new 'top end' motorcycle would cost a significantly high proportion than the old 'top end' relative to the cheaper one.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:


I think there's good reason the new 'top end' motorcycle would cost a significantly high proportion than the old 'top end' relative to the cheaper one.


Are you beginning to contradict your earlier posts?
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G
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I recall - my position has been that a similar bike price has gone down not up?

But I'm suggesting there isn't something similar to a S1000RR to compare it to in the 70s.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:


But I'm suggesting there isn't something similar to a S1000RR to compare it to in the 70s.


So I'm right in thinking you made an unfair comparison? Razz
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