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Bike Stolen, Lexham says no money!

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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
First bit with pricing - random number generation; it's unfortunate that the pricing monkeys don't test their own algorithms properly but it also works to your advantage on occasion, so swings and roundabouts I guess.

It's all just from a big table of statistics of who cost them what, isn't it?
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arry
Super Spammer



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:

It's all just from a big table of statistics of who cost them what, isn't it?


Sort of yes, but not entirely.

It's supposed to have underwriting input so that if a statistical value comes out that breaks with common sense, the underwriter would tell the pricing geeks (who live in cupboards) why it is they're an absolute retard for suggesting it.

So for example, a while back in a previous company, one of our pricing geeks decided that anyone that insured their buildings with us was worth a loading because the incidence rate of subsidence claims was 99% higher with people that insured buildings than against those who didn't insure buildings Laughing Well who'd have thought it? Laughing An underwriter, me in this example, said don't be a dick and get back in your broom cupboard and that was the end of that.

Sometimes though, the geeks see matrix like numbers and the underwriters don't see the patterns and some stuff gets jiggled out of place. That can cause some gaps and nonsensical rating that leaves consumers thinking 'eh?!'.

There's also the issue that when you don't have any actual claims experience in the market you wish to go into, and you're making rating up on the fly at the start of it all - who's to say you get the right rating factors and who's to say your common sense approach is right. Then you get caught out by the frequency data and the pricing geeks take over because you've clearly not got a clue, have you....

There are loads of other factors in play but on the simple pile it high sell it cheap stuff, those are the main ones.
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skatefreak
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:

It's not fraudulent for starters. The contract terms are there to be accepted; it hasn't been misrepresented in any way. That's not to say it's fair, and that's what I need to look at when laddo gets his docs over.

It will also depend on whether it was an advised sale or non-advised. Can't claim mis-sold when you haven't been sold it.


Admittedly this is all very dependant on whether the policy holder explicitly states 'no added security will be used' and whether the insurance company ever get that information.

Under the assumption they did, then by default the parameters defined within the policy itself guaranty they would not pay out for theft?

So they knew the policy parameters contradicted their T&C's but proceeded to issue the policy and take the guys cash anyway?

Maybe they never got this information? Maybe it wasn't explicitly stated? But if they did and it was then I find it abhorrent that in this day and age that they can conveniently ignore what suits them whilst selling insurance products that will not do what they say they will do.

Getting all very hypothetical now though but I cannot see why, if they collect this information and it's important enough to nullify the cover provided, they would not cross reference the information provided to ensure the policy is valid?
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LustyLew
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Joined: 19 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 21 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Ste wrote:

It's all just from a big table of statistics of who cost them what, isn't it?




It's supposed to have underwriting input so that if a statistical value comes out that breaks with common sense, the underwriter would tell the pricing geeks (who live in cupboards) why it is they're an absolute retard for suggesting it.


Ahhh Actuaries!

"General Kala, the underwriters disagree with our models..."

https://api.ning.com/files/bFPh39OVQGutOnwuJRXsBubBr1Jq6O1mbbGdWKtccWmJ9HVlnbl3rFSJzHnn0r7x74O13Lryjs*55NHnoWumwr5BprfGe5Br/masonic_room_flash_gordon_resistance2010.jpg
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owl
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
any update Question
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DJP
Crazy Courier



Joined: 11 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 13 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doesn't surprise me at all.

Aside from Adrian Flux, Lexham are the most chaotic insurers I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

Every piece of documentation they returned for signing was littered with (their) errors and they repeatedly threatened to charge me extra for correcting their mistakes.

I vowed never again and, fortunately, I never had to claim with them. They left me with no faith in them at all.

They're on my list of "Not at any price" insurers.
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BusterGonads
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 18 May 2018
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 14 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:


It's not fraudulent for starters. The contract terms are there to be accepted; it hasn't been misrepresented in any way. That's not to say it's fair, and that's what I need to look at when laddo gets his docs over.

It will also depend on whether it was an advised sale or non-advised. Can't claim mis-sold when you haven't been sold it.


The fact that the banks have been forced to pay out £31Bn in PPI compensation for mis selling of insurance rather goes against your assertion that contract terms are all important. People who took out PPI were refunded with interest BECAUSE in their particular circumstance the contract terms prevented them from ever being able to claim or ever needing to claim. This is EXACTLY the OP's position. He stated his security arrangements up front and the insurer took his money for theft cover EVEN THOUGH THEIR CONTRACT TERMS RENDERED THE PAYMENT HE MADE POINTLESS.

UK Law specifically states that you can not enforce unfair contracts even if people signed them willingly. This is why WONGA has gone bust and of course why the banks are smarting from their PPI losses.

Why are insurance compnaies any different 'arry?
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tittymcarsefa...
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 30 Sep 2018
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PostPosted: 08:22 - 19 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Of course it is £100 cheaper without a lock declared, they can afford to drop the price on a policy they will NEVER pay out on. Laughing Laughing

Agree about adrian flux just I've re insured my robin with them a few days ago, they tried putting the price up for a second year running because of "insurance tax rise" went from £340 to £498 (big jump for a 2% tax rise) which i got down to £440 this year they tried asking £498 again ended up pay £448

I was told on the phone I wouldn't need to provide any additional documents, two days later I have a text saying my policy is at risk of being cancelled if i don't sign a mileage declaration. wtf?
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DJP
Crazy Courier



Joined: 11 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 19 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
tittymcarseface wrote:
Of course it is £100 cheaper without a lock declared, they can afford to drop the price on a policy they will NEVER pay out on. Laughing Laughing

Agree about adrian flux just I've re insured my robin with them a few days ago, they tried putting the price up for a second year running because of "insurance tax rise" went from £340 to £498 (big jump for a 2% tax rise) which i got down to £440 this year they tried asking £498 again ended up pay £448

I was told on the phone I wouldn't need to provide any additional documents, two days later I have a text saying my policy is at risk of being cancelled if i don't sign a mileage declaration. wtf?


Yep.

Adrian Flux are a PITA to deal with: Repeated requests for paperwork that's already been provided, often documentation that other companies don't even ask for, and accompanied by repeated threats of additional fees and/or cancellation.

I had to provide copies of the V5, my driving license, a DVLA access code, a photo of the dashboard showing the mileage etc etc. They even objected to the format in which my previous insurer provided proof of NCB.

And then, when their website finally declared the documentation complete, the person on the phone said it wasn't...

And then this year I took out bike insurance with BikeSure, without realising that they were part of the Flux group, and the sorry saga began again...

Lexham were much the same.

Which reminds me, BikeSure still haven't sent the insurance certificate three months later. Rolling Eyes
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owl
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 19 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
tittymcarseface wrote:
Of course it is £100 cheaper without a lock declared, they can afford to drop the price on a policy they will NEVER pay out on. Laughing Laughing


Good thing I have a voice recording of their representative telling me over the phone not to declare the disc lock, but as long as I use it and report that it was in use when making the claim there wouldn't be an issue.

At the time my missus said I was being stupid and paranoid, I showed her this thread and she's since apologised.
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