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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

struan80 wrote:
Who mentioned pole dance? I would like to hit them with an axe for their teasing. Most importantly I do not frequent pole dancing bars anymore since I found the vibrating vagina.


Ah ha, so that's the in name for cruisers this year. Thumbs Up
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
struan80 wrote:
Who mentioned pole dance? I would like to hit them with an axe for their teasing. Most importantly I do not frequent pole dancing bars anymore since I found the vibrating vagina.


Ah ha, so that's the in name for cruisers this year. Thumbs Up


And here's me thinking that was slang for a Vespa with a fucked wheel...
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evilzed
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 24 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It mattered to me but I think it doesn't as much anymore, my FZ1N looked amazing IMO but I found I was using my commuter Suzuki waaay more due to having a top box centre stand etc etc

.....I ended up adding a top box rack to the FZ1 2 weeks ago, it was a really hard decision to make practicality just won out.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 24 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

evilzed wrote:
It mattered to me but I think it doesn't as much anymore, my FZ1N looked amazing IMO but I found I was using my commuter Suzuki waaay more due to having a top box centre stand etc etc

.....I ended up adding a top box rack to the FZ1 2 weeks ago, it was a really hard decision to make practicality just won out.


What if practicality wasn't a consideration for you? What if cost wasn't a consideration?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 24 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:

What if practicality wasn't a consideration for you? What if cost wasn't a consideration?


This is where I'm at tbh. It's literally a toy. Wifie has her beautifully appointed studio and I have my bike. With
a brand new, heated garage for me in the pipeline. Coming next spring when the builders start building it. Thumbs Up
If I had to commute. I'd bolt a top box onto it first and then just use the scoot. Indeed if I have to run an errand then
I just use the scoot. It helps that it's a bit tatty so I have no attachment to it like I do my bike.

struan80 wrote:
Who mentioned pole dance? I would like to hit them with an axe for their teasing. Most importantly I do not frequent pole dancing bars anymore since I found the vibrating vagina.

I'm sorry. I didn't realise you were a recovering addict. I only have to look out of my living room window if I want to
watch a pole dancer. AND I can molest this particular one randomly without being duffed up by a bouncer. Thumbs Up Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 24 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

What if practicality wasn't a consideration for you? What if cost wasn't a consideration?


This is where I'm at tbh. It's literally a toy. Wifie has her beautifully appointed studio and I have my bike. With
a brand new, heated garage for me in the pipeline. Coming next spring when the builders start building it. Thumbs Up
If I had to commute. I'd bolt a top box onto it first and then just use the scoot. Indeed if I have to run an errand then
I just use the scoot. It helps that it's a bit tatty so I have no attachment to it like I do my bike.


It seems a bit obvious that if practicality is your first consideration, looks aren't going to be high on the list.
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OmegaA
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aesthetics is one of the last things I will look at. First of all, it will be practicality (does it ride fast enough, is it too big for filtering, costs to run it), then ergonomics, then reliability, then costs of purchase. Probably I will pay attention to the history of the manufacturer too. Only then I will think of aesthetics. No wonder my choice of colour if usually white - more visible, not because it is my favourite colour
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

OmegaA wrote:
Aesthetics is one of the last things I will look at. First of all, it will be practicality (does it ride fast enough, is it too big for filtering, costs to run it), then ergonomics, then reliability, then costs of purchase. Probably I will pay attention to the history of the manufacturer too. Only then I will think of aesthetics. No wonder my choice of colour if usually white - more visible, not because it is my favourite colour


I didn't think white was one of the more visible colours otherwise we would have white safety bibs, not orange or yellow.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 29 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think it depends on background. But hi-viz orange and yellow would seem to stand out against a greater variety than white. But haven't there been discussions here before about even those not being great?
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OmegaA
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PostPosted: 00:47 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


I didn't think white was one of the more visible colours otherwise we would have white safety bibs, not orange or yellow.


I suspect car drivers don’t peruse me while driving - they see white bike and white helmet and make a quick association:“what can it be? POLICE!!! Don’t ignore. Ah, it is just an ordinary biker. Oh, well, I see him, let’s not hit him”
It’s like a marked car - what is your first reaction? Mine is that it might be police, later I may realise is not, but I will still notice it more than other vehicles nearby
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 07:13 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I would think it depends on background. But hi-viz orange and yellow would seem to stand out against a greater variety than white. But haven't there been discussions here before about even those not being great?


Ime hi-viz yellow is invisible against many of the shades of green in summer when the sun is bright and shining on them. Orange is more visible at that time of year, I reckon.

As for aesthetics, I dislike the look of most bikes from about 1985 onwards, but in more recent times they just seem to have got even worse. I particularly dislike the number plate bracket over the back tyre, necessitated by stubby subframes (e.g. MT09 etc.).

That said, I could come to ignore almost any designs if they rode well and made me feel good when actually riding them. So I suppose in that sense aesthetics don't really matter to me.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think aesthetics are important as I've said, but performance and engineering merit and design, along with build quality are important too in my book.

Im with you about these stubby short rear ends on bikes, and those daft long extended number plate brackets required. Im not sure what's worse this or the transformers styling it's that bad.

I'd say good looking bikes lasted up to the end of the 90's though before things went south. I think say a C-series ZX9R is beautiful compared to a new ZX10R, and a 98 R1 even more so compared to a 2018 one etc. I grew up when people were still building special FZR EXUP's and GSXR 7/11's with polished frames, and single colour paint schemes. This era of bike will always look good to me.

Its the same with off road/trail/supermoto bikes though too. There was more variety in the 90's-00's when Supermotards reached their peak of interest and popularity.
I like the 80's-early 90's MX bikes and the trail bike replicas they spawned. Those acid bleached colours and fluorescent paint were quite wacky and cool. (Suzuki RM250 1992 as an example). But what I dislike most about modern off roaders is the style and particularly the seat and the way you sit on top of the flatter seat like a see saw.

I liked the sit in designs with the safety seat going up the back of the fuel tank, it looks much more right and also like a horse saddle too. Still not sure why they changed off road bikes from this design?

Occasionally a new bike looks nice (thankfully as I don't want to be a moaning old bastard) the new Z900RS for example. The ZRX and XJR did too 20years ago when new too. Honda seems to make a few reasonable looking bikes today that arnt all transformers. The CBR650, Africa Twin, CB1100 etc don't assault the eyes.

Kawasaki and Yamaha Oh dear me! But they sell alot of bikes so someone is buying these deformed alien monstrosities.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:

Occasionally a new bike looks nice (thankfully as I don't want to be a moaning old bastard) the new Z900RS for example. The ZRX and XJR did too 20years ago when new too. Honda seems to make a few reasonable looking bikes today that arnt all transformers. The CBR650, Africa Twin, CB1100 etc don't assault the eyes.


All bikes which hark back to an earlier time. And I'm the same. I guess it's natural to like the designs we grew up with. The shorty rear ends do nothing for me either. Because of what I did grow up with, they look like something is missing. A nicely sculpted tail unit that flows from the lines of the rest of the bodywork is something I miss.

But today's look is the result of (sometimes) improvements in handling and function - frames with a main spar from headstock to s/arm pivot being perhaps the main one. Except for the loss of a tail unit. I'm not quite sure how that came about.
I'm sure the manufacturers would be disappointed to read comments about lack of engineering and design, as I think they will have put a lot of time and effort into this. They have solved many of the handling problems of those early years we remember, performance is generally considerably up - all the functionality has been improved (except perhaps for comfort - have they forgotten a human has to ride them?). Gimmicks and gadgets sometimes distract from these achievements I think, but nevertheless, much has been achieved over the years.

But aesthetics, well yes, I think they have suffered for it. Perhaps the exchange is worth it? I don't have much experience of recent models, so I'm not the one to say. It's just a shame we can't have both.
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Last edited by chickenstrip on 11:07 - 06 Oct 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever since I saw the first R1 in the shop window I knew that I wanted one on looks alone.When I had the opportunity to buy a friend's 5JJ back in 2005 it blew me away and I ride the bike whenever I can Thumbs Up Very Happy Thumbs Up

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Honda%20750/My%20bikes/20180929_175816_zpshxjfwlkr.jpg~original
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BenR
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Im with you about these stubby short rear ends on bikes, and those daft long extended number plate brackets required. Im not sure what's worse this or the transformers styling it's that bad.



Will we still have those after Brexit?
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 06 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally doubt that anything to do with EU laws and legislation will change post EU Britain.

1, Bike manufacturers will still have to make EU and US compliant bikes, so won't change spec or designs for the dwindling UK market. The days of the big manufacturers developing a bike specifically for us at great expense is long gone. The days of specially designed bikes for sports bike mad Britain are over, as is the arms race and I think the Japanese 400cc laws too. Not to mention the EU and US are probably around half of all the total bike market today?

2, I think UK law will adopt all current and some EU legislation for some time. It might make trade easier with stuff meeting EU regs, especially exports. Changing laws and legislation is very expensive and despite possible benefits for the UK I doubt many new laws will be passed or new legislation introduced, as the government and it's budgets have far greater problems and priorities.

We might not see updated legislation and laws here to keep up with the EU in time, but that would be to save money and reduce burocracy etc. Saying that we will never go USA and shun clean air regs, or say we can go back to Euro3 spec vehicles, as there's a huge environmental pressure green do good movement on the UK which won't go away post Brexit.
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 11 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

How important are aesthetics?


It's like women, good aesthetics really enhance the experience.

I find most modern plastic covered bikes hideous. What I lust after are bikes that look like the old 1950s and 1960s bikes I started out on.

https://www.classic-british-motorcycles.com/images/52BSA-A10-R.jpg

It doesn't matter that an early 60s A10 is in every way inferior to a modern motorcycle from a technical standpoint. The A10 speaks to me in a different way. Nostalgia - mad or what?
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 11 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://cdp.azureedge.net/products/USA/HO/2019/MC/SPORT/CB300R/50/MATTE_GRAY_METALLIC/2000000002.jpg

My eldest son just bought one of these when he passed his DAS course. It rides really nicely and is highly maneuverable. Great performance from what is basically a 250 (286cc), but it looks weird to me. What was the designer of that fish tail bone rear end on? And the exhaust???? WTF!

I was a bit tempted to get one except when I looked at access to the top end, I couldn't see how doing the tappets would be anything but a massive pain in the arse, so I dropped the idea pretty fast. He loves it. Rides it at every opportunity and his car a rather sporty blue Toyota GT something or other just stands in the drive doing nothing.
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 11 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BusterGonads wrote:
https://cdp.azureedge.net/products/USA/HO/2019/MC/SPORT/CB300R/50/MATTE_GRAY_METALLIC/2000000002.jpg

My eldest son just bought one of these when he passed his DAS course. It rides really nicely and is highly maneuverable. Great performance from what is basically a 250 (286cc), but it looks weird to me. What was the designer of that fish tail bone rear end on? And the exhaust???? WTF!


Unfortunately both of those are the result of regulation in some form or other

Rear number plates now (legally) have to be the rearmost part of a motorcycle (or something to that effect), hence why all new bikes have these ridiculous rear no. plate mounts

And again, i believe the exhaust designs aere all in keeping with the latest EURO 4/5 rules on noise and emissions
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grr666
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 11 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

And both are among the first things an owner changes when they buy one. Middle Finger Laughing Middle Finger The legislation is only so they
canbe sold in this market, blame the EU for that too. Now, if they bring in a new part of the MOT test like there already
is on cars and vans which checks emissions control equipment for signs of tampering or removal then there will be a lot of
exhaust swapping come MOT time. I traded in van at a bit of a loss after having the DPF gutted and it remapped to avoid
the 2k fine for doing what I did. Which in short was make it more fuel efficient and get rid of the malfunctioning dpf and software
which was stuck on permanent regen mode. I spent over 2k trying to fix this including a new set of injectors before I said
fuck it and went the delete/remap route. It drove better than ever after the work, I was gutted to see it go. Traded in for
another van with another DPF. Needless to say this DPF causes problems too and I get the warning light every few weeks.

Quote:
DPF removal

Diesel particulate filters (DPFs) will be carefully checked for evidence of removal or tampering. Removing DPFs can increase fuel economy but doing so is illegal because harmful particulate matter is not trapped in the exhaust pipe and is instead pumped straight out into the air.

Removal of the DPF results in an immediate fail.

Owners who have deliberately removed particulate filters to improve the car’s performance face a bill of £1,000 or more, or having to scrap the car. Older diesels made before DPFs were built-in will not face the new emissions test.


Source - https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clinic/guide-new-mot-test-changes-including-tougher-diesel-emissions-limits/


If something similar happens to the MOT for bikes, that will mark the beginning of the end of motorcycling in the UK IMO.

And I'm buying a petrol van next time. Diesel is already one foot in the grave.
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 11 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read with great interest all the moans and groans regarding the EU and all the ways of trying to get around emissions legislation by fitting de-cat exhausts, power commanders etc.. and wonder if all the complainers breathe the same air as me. The EU has many faults but surely if the human race is to have any kind of future on planet earth a large body has to make the big decisions on pollution. If vehicles don't run correctly then it's down to the manufacturers not EU legislators.

The Euro regulations regarding emissions, as far as I can see, are driving advances in technology and performance and at the same time making vehicles more fuel efficient and less polluting.

I've been following the recent announcements on the changes to the BMW Boxer engines - more CC's and Variable Valve Timing giving higher performance (HP & Torque) for less fuel consumption and emissions. Surely this can't be considered a bad thing?

Back to the original topic, Aesthetics? I like a bike to look good but beauty, so they say, is in the eye of the beholder. I've got a V-Strom so what do I know Laughing Wink .
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 11 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read with great interest all the moans and groans regarding the EU and all the ways of trying to get around emissions legislation by fitting de-cat exhausts, power commanders etc.. and wonder if all the complainers breathe the same air as me. The EU has many faults but surely if the human race is to have any kind of future on planet earth a large body has to make the big decisions on pollution. If vehicles don't run correctly then it's down to the manufacturers not EU legislators.

The Euro regulations regarding emissions, as far as I can see, are driving advances in technology and performance and at the same time making vehicles more fuel efficient and less polluting.

I've been following the recent announcements on the changes to the BMW Boxer engines - more CC's and Variable Valve Timing giving higher performance (HP & Torque) for less fuel consumption and emissions. Surely this can't be considered a bad thing?

Back to the original topic, Aesthetics? I like a bike to look good but beauty, so they say, is in the eye of the beholder. I've got a V-Strom so what do I know Laughing Wink .
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 11 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enduro Numpty wrote:
I read with great interest all the moans and groans regarding the EU and all the ways of trying to get around emissions legislation by fitting de-cat exhausts, power commanders etc.. and wonder if all the complainers breathe the same air as me. The EU has many faults but surely if the human race is to have any kind of future on planet earth a large body has to make the big decisions on pollution. If vehicles don't run correctly then it's down to the manufacturers not EU legislators.

The Euro regulations regarding emissions, as far as I can see, are driving advances in technology and performance and at the same time making vehicles more fuel efficient and less polluting.

I've been following the recent announcements on the changes to the BMW Boxer engines - more CC's and Variable Valve Timing giving higher performance (HP & Torque) for less fuel consumption and emissions. Surely this can't be considered a bad thing?

Back to the original topic, Aesthetics? I like a bike to look good but beauty, so they say, is in the eye of the beholder. I've got a V-Strom so what do I know Laughing Wink .


Well, nobody wants to breathe poisonous air, but you know what? The air in the UK is cleaner than it ever has been for over a hundred years right now. To read the green hype, you'd think we were all choking, but the actual data shows that particulates are down 20% on what they were in 1990 and nitrogen oxides are down about 50% and this at a time when we have people screaming about how thousands of us are choking to death... It's SHITE mate - pure left wing garbage.

All you need do is take a deep breath next time some cherished classic car comes by when you are on the pavement and you'll be amazed how filthy it is. Even my Euro 2 cg125 smells bad by comparison too anything remotely modern, but those old classics really stink the place out.... Then there are the two strokes and we all know what they were like.


Evidence:

" Emissions of nitrogen oxides in 2016 have fallen by 72 per cent since
1970, to 0.89 million tonnes." DEFRA NATIONAL STATISTICS

Page seven of this document. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/681445/Emissions_of_air_pollutants_statistical_release_FINALv4.pdf

There is a lot more in there and you can look as you wish. We are being sold a giant croc of shite on air pollution and deaths.

Check this one out which demonstrates that the supposed 40,000 premture deaths is just made up nonsense That is the conclusion from a Cambridge University statistics department which shows the origin of the claim is simply modeled on foreign data.

"Does Air Pollution Kill 40,000 people a year in the UK?
https://wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.uk/news/does-air-pollution-kill-40000-people-each-year-uk
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 07:27 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpsmith79 wrote:

Unfortunately both of those are the result of regulation in some form or other

Rear number plates now (legally) have to be the rearmost part of a motorcycle (or something to that effect), hence why all new bikes have these ridiculous rear no. plate mounts

And again, i believe the exhaust designs aere all in keeping with the latest EURO 4/5 rules on noise and emissions


Needn't look like that though..

https://cdp.azureedge.net/products/USA/TM/2018/MC/CRUISER/BONNEVILLE_T100/50/NEW_ENGLAND_WHITE_-_INTENSE_ORANGE/2000000005.jpg

2018 Bonneville looks fine to me, exhaust wise, and number plate location,

Or the new Royal Enfield 650's

https://media.zigcdn.com/media/model/2017/Nov/royal-enfield-interceptor-int-650-right_600x300.jpg

Or even the Euro 4 Mash 400

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5336/31302860586_7b5a999743_b.jpg

So, I don' think the exhaust has to look like that, and there's no need for your number plate to be stuck on a litter picker sticking out from the end of the bike !!
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 07:35 - 12 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

BG, I'm not going to disagree with, or dispute what you say but I'm not sure what your point is.
If we've got less polluting vehicles, it's surely down to legislation? Is it wrong to make them even less polluting? Cities may be better than in the past but I wouldn't live in a city centre - they still stink.


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