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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

almostthere wrote:
Bus Wanker Very Happy


Like Hellcat the only reason I opened this thread.

This forum is definitely going downhill, BCF I am disappoint, you know the rules when talking about your ladies.
Tits or GTFO ( the bus)
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Last edited by mentalboy on 00:30 - 10 Oct 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Ever done the job Percy? Why am I asking that? Course you haven't.

The costs of prosecution x 1000's are huge. Why should properly paying passengers have to fund that as well???
There has to be a deterrent too or lots more people would accidently on purpose 'forget' to pay as well. As an ex London
bus driver I have some experience of this kind of thing. Typically when revenue protection (a team of two to four inspectors,
half for upstairs and half for down) get on there's a sudden attempted exodus from the vehicle of all of those who had stayed
on past the point they had paid to get to, or not at all in some cases. Many passengers still use the old sneak on the
back doors while the driver is distracted routine. Not to mention those that 'forget' to tap their oyster cards. I can't
imagine why the holes in peoples memory seem to appear precisely at the moment of payment. Honestly I can't.

Nowadays in addition, a group of maybe 8 or 10 more inspectors wait on the pavement along with a copper or twelve to keep
the peace when the people caught make a (predictable) huge dramatic scene often using the racism word freely and loudly as
many times as possible. Diverse teams of inspectors are used deliberately for this purpose. "You're only doing this because
I'm black/brown/yellow/foreign" doesn't really work when the inspector is also a POC. Oddly it's the first comment you
would hear from certain offenders. Why is that??? The bus isn't allowed to move while this is all going on and you
have to keep the doors open front and rear during the process so I'd clearly hear all the loud, over the top protesting about
how it was everybody else's fault but their own.

Back in the old days just two inspectors would board a bus, travel a few stops while they checked everybodys ticket then
they would get off and wait for the next one. Once upon a time that was plenty to get the job done. I should know, my
own father was a plain clothes revenue inspector for some years himself. He worked for London Transport in a variety
of roles for some 27 years, almost as long as you've been a student. For some reason, the same job needs 4 on the bus
and a mixed team 20 odd Police/PCSO and more revenue staff on the pavement to cope with the numbers. Can only imagine
that extra bodies are needed because the problem has gotten far worse, plus now you are quite likely to get stabbed
for having the gall to bring one of the usual suspects to book for cheating the system. Part and parcel etc... Rolling Eyes

I could give you some descriptions of the typical people you would see being caught out by revenue and are seen
waving their arms about and shouting the toss about foul play when caught. But you won't like the un-biased answer.
I've seen the same person caught three days on the bounce. When you are the 8 o'clock bus every day, the passengers
are all the ones that catch the 8 o'clock bus every day, so you get regulars. Good and bad.

But obviously my years of of IRL experience as a London bus driver mean nothing. I suppose you think it should all
just be free, a common condition of those who lean to the left. Thing is the person whose job it is to drive that bus can
also be booked by revenue for failing to pursue a fare dodger if they should happen to spot someone who should have
gotten off some stops ago. Just to avoid confusion booked means disciplinary action, a common pitfall for not doing ones
job properly. Potentially affecting that persons ability to feed their family as they rely on the wages for the dull, repetitive,
stressful, thankless and soul destroying work that driving a bus is. I'm sure you can only imagine what that feels like.

Fare evasion is usually deliberate and a well practiced tactic by those who do it. I'd say the ratio of POC vs whitey
being caught not paying their way is about 80/20. Maybe making it free for everyone is the answer, but with a typical
double decker bus costing North of 120k. The constant schemes to reduce emissions meaning keeping the fleets new and eco
friendly as possible to comply is an ongoing and continual process. This makes running a bus company quite an expensive
business. As is always the case, the "it should be free" screechers aren't so quick to offer alternative means of paying for
whatever it is they believe they should be entitled to for nothing.


Almost gave an 'interesting' upvote until I saw how much of an unrelated nonsense tirade you decided to turn that into.

Black yoof fair dodgers are quite blatantly a whole different kettle of fish to innocent first offense one-day-out-of-date bus pass users. You just wanted to use this as an excuse to have a rant about your favourite people and chuck a few insults my way for good measure.

Student? Lefty? "It should be free"? Why are you bringing up any of that? Did a cat bite you in the bollocks this morning or something? Because something has definitely triggered you. Get with the times, I stopped being a student almost two years ago and am doing quite fine for myself, entirely thanks to the degree I spent the previous 4 years earning. There are more ways in life than your way.

I shall now prepare for you to repond in the same way you did last time I managed to flick a nerve, where you tell me all about how you own five thousand homes and could retire tomorrow and can afford to feed diamond encrusted nik-naks to your cat (which bit you in the bollocks this morning), which makes you a much better, more experienced and all round more enlightened person than I could ever dream to be.

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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
All of that is why there's next to no chance of someone being let off when they've made a genuine mistake with something like their pass being one day out of date.


Precisely.

I thought most people on this forum understood how common sense seems to have been eroded. e.g. the big example is speeding tickets and other road offenses, where people complain:

"Haven't they got any real criminals to catch?"
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:

It's a deterrent to stop people travelling for free, like the OP's other half did. In future, no doubt she'll put a reminder to renew her travel card in a calendar like everyone else would. £40 is hardly over the top is it?

That's the point of a small fine. Get over yourself.


I think making a mistake with a bus pass is quite different from flat-out fare dodging.

For a start, if it's an electronic pass it would fail as soon as it reached its use-by date. If it's a basic card pass, then the bus driver is at fault for letting her on without checking properly.

Given that she made it onto the bus, someone or something didn't check if she was allowed on or not. If it's a London bus where she should have Oyster carded her way on, or was any kind of electronic swipe card thing, then yeah fair enough it's her fault. Most other cases are different though. Someone should have checked her pass as she got on. That's how it always works.

Probably worth figuring out the protocol for how passengers are supposed to get on the bus. Why was a person without a valid pass allowed on in the first place? Every bus I've ever used, apart from in London, has required visual inspection of your ticket.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ummmm, there's no chance of people who've made a genuine mistake being let of for the reasons grrr says in his "unrelated nonsense tirade".

People who haven't paid and are being singled out because they're black would be very unhappy if a white person was let off. Shocked
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Probably worth figuring out the protocol for how passengers are supposed to get on the bus. Why was a person without a valid pass allowed on in the first place? Every bus I've ever used, apart from in London, has required visual inspection of your ticket.


You can enter the new London Routemaster in the middle or at the rear, so no visual inspection
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mpd72 CPT
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

Black yoof fair dodgers are quite blatantly a whole different kettle of fish to innocent first offense one-day-out-of-date bus pass users.


So we should only fine black fare dodgers? Sounds a bit racist to me.

Lord Percy wrote:
Student? Lefty? "It should be free"? Why are you bringing up any of that?


If the cap fits...
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mpd72 CPT
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

I think making a mistake with a bus pass is quite different from flat-out fare dodging.


How do you differentiate between the two? Do you really know it was an honest mistake and not chancing it until pay day? Do the inspectors know this?

Lord Percy wrote:
For a start, if it's an electronic pass it would fail as soon as it reached its use-by date. If it's a basic card pass, then the bus driver is at fault for letting her on without checking properly.


Or maybe the bus has doors where you can get on without having to show the drive a valid pass? If not, why the need for ticket inspectors?

At the end of the day, it's a £40 fine, so hardly extortionate. For whatever reason, OP's missus travelled without paying and got caught. Maybe she didn't have time to renew it so chanced it for a day or two, maybe she did forget, nobody knows, including the inspectors.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blah blah Percival. Blah blah. I've worked the job, you haven't. You only have an idea of how you think things should be.
I know how they actually are, given my experience. Your idealism blinds you to reality. In short, what you're saying
Rolling Eyes based upon your vast experience of this exact topic Perce me old perma-child is that I'm wrong and you're right.
Well what an unexpected turn up that is!! I'm truly shocked!!! Either you're just playing dumb or you can't see how
fucking mong-like your post was.

So. Degree boy... Let me break it down for you 3 GCSE stylee.


Lord Percy wrote:

No, 'taking responsibility' amounts to, "Oh sorry, didn't realise, I'll get off the bus."


What? And then no crime has been committed??? Oh, so it's okay to partially travel for free is it? Until you are
sort of caught red handed doing it? Using the same warped, entitled logic, if I'm stopped for driving without (having paid for)
proper and correct insurance (a condition of using the roads, much like paying an appropriate fare/ having a correct
and valid permit is a condition of using public transport
even if you are staff btw), then if I just get out of the car and
continue my journey on foot then there's no case to answer?

Lord Percy wrote:

Being forced to pay an arbitrary fine of £40 is where the problem is.

Yes yes yes, we can't have adults taking responsibility for their failure to pay or to check their own travel permit is valid can we?
It's not like TFL don't tell you penalties are applicable on their website... What? They do? Oh well that's just downright
as plain as day of them isn't it?

Lord Percy wrote:
Who decided it should be that much?

The bus company usually. In the case of London bus companies then TFL is also involved, you know the mayor and
his people. Poor people use the bus, no point making the fines extortionate. Parking tickets typically cost more
because Drivers are slightly less poor. Otherwise they would be on the bus. See how it works yet???

Lord Percy wrote:
What costs is the £40 covering?

Wages to the 20 odd staff enforcing the fares, per bus. Prosecution costs. You know, that kind of thing.

Lord Percy wrote:
What damages?

Loss of revenue. Hence the name Revenue Protection Inspectors.

Lord Percy wrote:
What injury?

See Above. Plus creating delays for other correctly paying passengers who have to sit on the bus waiting
while dindu and co didn't do it.


Lord Percy wrote:
What if the fine was £1000?

It is is you fuck about and take it to court. That's quite clearly in the TFL T's and C's.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/penalties-and-enforcement

Regardless it would still need to be paid. That's why they are called fines.

TFL wrote:

Fare evasion is a criminal offence that could lead to a fine of up to £1000 and a criminal record.

Penalty fare amount
The penalty fare is £80 - reduced to £40 if you pay within 21 days. If you don't pay the penalty fare (or successfully appeal) within 21 days, we will take further action.


Lord Percy wrote:
Whose side would you be on then?

The same side as before. The right side.

Lord Percy wrote:
But it doesn't surprise me that you can't see it that way.

Rolling Eyes Ditto comrade.

Lord Percy wrote:

I shall now prepare for you to repond in the same way you did last time I managed to flick a nerve, where you tell me all about how you own five thousand homes and could retire tomorrow and can afford to feed diamond encrusted nik-naks to your cat (which bit you in the bollocks this morning), which makes you a much better, more experienced and all round more enlightened person than I could ever dream to be.

Thumbs Up Smile

Look out! Your envy is showing. You saved me the time anyway. I'll have to repond like that some other time.
When of course, I figure out what repond means??? Honestly, the calibre of graduates today really is dire.
Half of them shouldn't even be in charge of a bus. BTW, I've done two hours work this week I'll have you know. Given
that I haven't filled out a job application in some 12 years I think that at least counts as semi retired by now. Thumbs Up
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
BTW, I've done two hours work this week I'll have you know. Given
that I haven't filled out a job application in some 12 years I think that at least counts as semi retired by now. Thumbs Up


Dance! that's the repond I was looking for, thanks Very Happy
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hold on Percy, how does that equate to the speeding fine I have possibly picked up?

I was doing 80ish on a dual carriageway. Until I was caught i was fine, no kittens were killed. No on lost anything. I should just get let off cause I'm nice and I wasn't watching the speedo. Genuine mistake and all that chap. Thumbs Up
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

What annoys me about you mr grrr is that I tend to mightily respect what you seem to have got going for yourself, including the bus driver stories. But then you wade in with massive internet hardman tirades laden with unrelated insults and ruin it all.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Hold on Percy, how does that equate to the speeding fine I have possibly picked up?

I was doing 80ish on a dual carriageway. Until I was caught i was fine, no kittens were killed. No on lost anything. I should just get let off cause I'm nice and I wasn't watching the speedo. Genuine mistake and all that chap. Thumbs Up



I thought most people on this forum and a lot of people generally were against speed limits and/or speeding fines for that exact reason, specially the national speed limit.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 09 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not against speed limits. I'm just against ME being done for breaking them.
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King29
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 17 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rang up and paid the £40. This is because my wife is argumentative, and would end up in court.

"I'm not paying it, it was one day out of date."

She would also have been argumentative in court as well. Easiest was just to pay it.

Thanks all anyway.
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 20 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
almostthere wrote:
Bus Wanker Very Happy


Like Hellcat the only reason I opened this thread.

This forum is definitely going downhill, BCF I am disappoint, you know the rules when talking about your ladies.
Tits or GTFO ( the bus)


Yep me too - only opened to hope to find bus wanker or post bus wanker.
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Omega
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PostPosted: 17:12 - 21 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd send a quick e-mail explaining that I'm a regular customer using weekly/monthly passes and that it was just an honest mistake after years of happy travelling.

I did this with a parking fine and was happy to see it cancelled shortly afterwards. (Friend had put the ticket on the dashboard upside down).
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