Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Long term effects of living at high altitude (3000+ metres)

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Dear Auntie BCF... Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:00 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Long term effects of living at high altitude (3000+ metres) Reply with quote

TL;DR:

Any biology types on here know about this?

Internet searching brings up a lot about genetics, evolution, Tibetans, Andeans, and Ethiopians who've been living for generations at high altitudes. There's also information about things that affect these people, but only these people.

I can't really find anything about what happens to low-landers who go and live at high altitude for an extended period of time.

Longer cool-story-bro version:

My girlfriend is a surgeon and needs to go to Luhuo at some point as part of a Chinese government rotation scheme which ensures there are always medical professionals in remote areas.

Luhuo is 3250m above seal level.

It has a fair sized population (enough to justify a little hospital with a team of doctors and surgeons stationed), but its remoteness means very few medical professionals are willing to live there. Either way, my girlfriend must go at some point. There are incentives to get her over, namely higher pay, free accomodation, cheaper living costs, and much more relaxed working conditions, and now that me and her are a fairly serious 'thing', she said she'd be quite willing to go for longer to absorb more of the incentives, if I go along for the ride.

So now I'm thinking about whether I can or should join her. I've just started getting my foot in the door as a freelance programmer, meaning I can work from anywhere, including middle-of-nowhere towns on the Tibetan Plateau. Going to Luhuo for a while sounds like a fantastic adventure to me. It's basically Tibet but with Chinese road signs; the pinnacle of hipster digital nomad traveller douchebaggery which secretly I'd love to try. Plus, living with her would mean I naturally absorb some of her benefits too, e.g. free accommodation.

Problem is, I have no idea how my body would cope with living that high up on a long term basis (3 months minimum). I've been to high altitude before and was actually in a similar region just last weekend, on a little road trip during the national holiday over here. At the highest point we were lightly roaming around an awesome mountain valley at 3800m. I could feel the altitude but not majorly, so I know my body can 'handle' it.

It's different as a long term thing though, because of something to do with the way red blood cells accumulate over many months, making the blood thicker, and pulmonary artery pressure increases, and other assorted stuff that the internet has told me I'm not naturally evolved to cope with. Information seems oddly sparse.

Any biology/mountaineer/climber types on here know anything more about the long term effects of low-land folk living at high altitude..????? Or anything about high altitude at all, beyond the usual "a bit difficult to breathe for a while" stuff?

Cheers.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:18 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose you know athletes use altitude training to boost performance. Some interesting stuff here - https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/michael-rogers-guide-to-tour-de-france-altitude-camp-preparation/
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:35 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIP & dibs on your stuff. Thumbs Up
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Sister Sledge
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Aug 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:44 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take an inhaler?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:59 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe get one of those oxygen tents, sleep nude in it and you'll get sexual powers which could be useful at high altitudes. Thumbs Up
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:11 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/altitude-sickness/

Note cerebral and pulmonary edema Shocked
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:28 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might sound like a silly question but what's your current residential altitude, someone living at 5000' is likely to acclimatise far more easily than a sea level dweller. Altitude affects everyone differently, I used to attribute a hefty smoking habit to better performance at altitude - possibly not something your average doctor will endorse!

Heinrich Harrer's Seven Years makes a three month stint look like an extended holiday. Only you know if you have the mettle of an adventurer or a pussy-whipped momma's boy - although I'm not sure if asking a bunch of sea level dwelling Brits on a biker's forum for advice is an attribute of the former... Laughing
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:37 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Might sound like a silly question but what's your current residential altitude, someone living at 5000' is likely to acclimatise far more easily than a sea level dweller. Altitude affects everyone differently, I used to attribute a hefty smoking habit to better performance at altitude - possibly not something your average doctor will endorse!

Heinrich Harrer's Seven Years makes a three month stint look like an extended holiday. Only you know if you have the mettle of an adventurer or a pussy-whipped momma's boy - although I'm not sure if asking a bunch of sea level dwelling Brits on a biker's forum for advice is an attribute of the former... Laughing


Haw you....

It's the efficiency of your respiratory system that allows you to fair well at altitude. How well you can exchange gas in/through your lungs and how much oxygen your blood can carry.

Smokers do not fair well in respiratory events due to compromised lung capacity and possibly when their haemoglobin is blocked by CO.

I spent time at altitude and was fine.

I was up a double ladder cleaning my gutters.

OK.. I had to come down for a cup of tea after I finished the back but no ill effect so far.

When we do fire training we use SCBA for about ten to fifteen minutes at a time. The smorkirs use about 20% more air as measured by the pressure left in their bottle. They probably breath more often during exertion but cannot extract as much oxygen from the air breathed in.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:41 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
cannot extract as much oxygen from the air breathed in.


I thought the point was that they had adapted to need less oxygen? Still, must be a tipping point where it doesn't pay off anymore.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:49 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
MCN wrote:
cannot extract as much oxygen from the air breathed in.


I thought the point was that they had adapted to need less oxygen? Still, must be a tipping point where it doesn't pay off anymore.


21% of atmosphere at sea level is O2 the rest is N2, small CO2 and tiny other stuff.

Higher altitude has thinner air so less of the shit we need 21%<.

So things that live at high altitude develop a way to suck more 02 from the thin air.
I think we need 17% to break even. 17%< would be in the passing out dept.
(google that for the exact figure)

High Andes type people have more Haemoglobin to deal with the thin air.
Better lung efficiencies.
And of course two hearts.

Athletes train at high altitude to grow more red blood cells. But it takes months. It's kind of like blood doping.
(Only joking about the hearts thing.)
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:02 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:


When we do fire training we use SCBA for about ten to fifteen minutes at a time. The smorkirs use about 20% more air as measured by the pressure left in their bottle. They probably breath more often during exertion but cannot extract as much oxygen from the air breathed in.


Office workers aren't in the same league as us roughtie toughtie Alpinists, now if you'll excuse me I have a large tree to chop down before I slip into some comfy women's clothing...
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:03 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
you'll get sexual powers which could be useful

Depends on whether the girlfriend likes heavy breathers or not.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:05 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


I thought the point was that they had adapted to need less oxygen? Still, must be a tipping point where it doesn't pay off anymore.


21% of atmosphere at sea level is O2 the rest is N2, small CO2 and tiny other stuff.

Higher altitude has thinner air so less of the shit we need 21%<.

So things that live at high altitude develop a way to suck more 02 from the thin air.
I think we need 17% to break even. 17%< would be in the passing out dept.
(google that for the exact figure)

High Andes type people have more Haemoglobin to deal with the thin air.
Better lung efficiencies.
And of course two hearts.

Athletes train at high altitude to grow more red blood cells. But it takes months. It's kind of like blood doping.
(Only joking about the hearts thing.)


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22693177
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:10 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


Smoke heavily beforehand for a few years to 'acclimatise', cease smoking at altitude, take up prior to your next trip. Simples innit. Laughing
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:12 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


From a Tiger Bone and Rhino Horn Snorting culture?

Drs. Ping, Pong, Ching, Chang, Ling, Ding, Bing.

I concur with the findings.

Dealing with less oxygen. Is not a sign of fitness though.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:15 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:


Smoke heavily beforehand for a few years to 'acclimatise', cease smoking at altitude, take up prior to your next trip. Simples innit. Laughing


Don't you climbing types have a fag break at the summit? I haven't been all that high (about 9000ft), but that's what I stopped for Laughing

There's your challenge: first person to have a fag on the summit of Everest Smile
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:22 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
mentalboy wrote:


Smoke heavily beforehand for a few years to 'acclimatise', cease smoking at altitude, take up prior to your next trip. Simples innit. Laughing


Don't you climbing types have a fag break at the summit? I haven't been all that high (about 9000ft), but that's what I stopped for Laughing

There's your challenge: first person to have a fag on the summit of Everest Smile


I have ceased to use that term since the nice young men over here thought it was an invitation...

Proper mountaineers chainsmoke, we just use the fag break as an excuse cos we're knackered. Laughing
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:26 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:

I have ceased to use that term since the nice young men over here thought it was an invitation...


Yes, you've quite buggered the English language over there Wink Laughing

Quote:
we just use the fag break as an excuse cos we're knackered. Laughing


Confused Are we still talking cigarettes here? Laughing
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

dydey90
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:42 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Work from anywhere? I wonder what internets will be available on top of a mountain. I live in the armpit of two major motorways (three if you count the M621) and 15 minutes commute to three city centres and I only have barely passable internets because of 4G.

Also, the most important thing, I’d assume carbs would need some adjustment at altitude? I’ve heard legends of some highly strung bikes not being able to make it up the Isle of Man because of the change in altitude.
____________________
This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:05 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Long term effects of living at high altitude (3000+ metr Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Luhuo is 3250m above seal level.


You'll be fine. Consider taking a weeks' holiday at lower level (about 2,200 metres first, or doing very little at your higher residence for a for the first 10 days.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:08 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Long term effects of living at high altitude (3000+ metr Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Luhuo is 3250m above seal level.


You'll be fine. Consider taking a weeks' holiday at lower level (about 2,200 metres first, or doing very little at your higher residence for a for the first 10 days.


'Puter nerd, just how much not doing 'very little' do you suppose he gets up to? Laughing
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:41 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long term effects, skin cancer. For all short term effects take Viagra which has the obvious side effect that you can enjoy.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:53 - 07 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Long term effects of living at high altitude (3000+ metr Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
'Puter nerd, just how much not doing 'very little' do you suppose he gets up to? Laughing


Ah. Missed that. "Business as usual at 10k+'".
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:23 - 08 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

As sickpup said, there's far more to worry about than breathing difficulties or red blood cell health etc.

The higher you are and especially on snow capped mountains, the greater chance of UV damage and skin cancer if you don't cover up.

Your not at a dangerous altitude to be on the verge of needing oxygen to survive, like probably 90% of Everest climbers do.

Out of interest, have you always lived in China?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 04:49 - 08 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for the replies Karma Karma Karma

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I suppose you know athletes use altitude training to boost performance. Some interesting stuff here - https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/michael-rogers-guide-to-tour-de-france-altitude-camp-preparation/


Interesting read, cheers Thumbs Up

chickenstrip wrote:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/altitude-sickness/

Note cerebral and pulmonary edema Shocked


I've seen the stuff about brain swelling etc ( Shocked ) but I was more concerend about long term effects rather than the short term acute mountain sickness kind of things.

mentalboy wrote:
Might sound like a silly question but what's your current residential altitude, someone living at 5000' is likely to acclimatise far more easily than a sea level dweller. Altitude affects everyone differently,


Currently in Chengdu at 500m. Was born in Leeds which is only 340m at its highest point! So that's what I suppose I might say I'm used to. If it means anything, I have Scottish blood so, erm, maybe I can handle 'Highlands' ever so slightly better than others. Scottish Highlands aren't exactly high though Laughing

MCN wrote:
It's the efficiency of your respiratory system that allows you to fair well at altitude. How well you can exchange gas in/through your lungs and how much oxygen your blood can carry.


A possibly useful fact, which has always been pointless pub bragging ammo until now, is that I can easily swim further underwater than anyone I've ever met, by a quite substantial amount, including folk who swim regularly for exercise. It seems I'm the owner of a good set of respirators, which should help I guess?

dydey90 wrote:
Work from anywhere? I wonder what internets will be available on top of a mountain. I live in the armpit of two major motorways (three if you count the M621) and 15 minutes commute to three city centres and I only have barely passable internets because of 4G.

Also, the most important thing, I’d assume carbs would need some adjustment at altitude? I’ve heard legends of some highly strung bikes not being able to make it up the Isle of Man because of the change in altitude.


One of the joys of socialism (or a government that wants to firmly establish itself in remote regions of geographic importance), is that 4G and fast internet is already available in some real middle-of-nowhere places. A township like Luhuo will definitely have good internet. When I go back to the UK it's honestly stunning just how shit signal is as soon as you step into a field.

As for your comment about carburettors, yeah I've read that too. It's why diaphragm carburettors have a pin with several notches which allow you to change the air intake. In fact, maybe all carburettors have a pin like that, but I've only ever pulled a diaphragm carb apart so that's all I know.

And indeed I would most certainly be trying to get my hands on a motorbike for some cool Himalayan exploration.

sickpup wrote:
Long term effects, skin cancer.


Good point, cheers, didn't think about that one. There's a reason every Tibetan I've seen seems to have hardened leather for skin. Guess it'll be suncream even in winter for me!


stevo as b4 wrote:
Out of interest, have you always lived in China?


Nope, only been here about 2 years in total, maybe 2 and a half. From Yorkshire really.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 5 years, 174 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Dear Auntie BCF... All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.16 Sec - Server Load: 0.3 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 154.49 Kb