Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Cush Rubbers wear out too soon?

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

scotto75
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:46 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Cush Rubbers wear out too soon? Reply with quote

Hi all, I have a CG125 and in the last year I have done 2000 miles commuting everyday, and it looks like I'm having to replace worn Cush drive rubbers for the third time! Why do they keep wearing out so soon?

When I got the bike I replaced them with a cheap set off ebay. They literally lasted a few months before they wore out. I replaced them with a set from Wemoto, but have taken the rear wheel off and have noticed loads of play on the rear sprocket, so looks like another set will have to be ordered. Next ones will be from Silvers, but wonder if the only option is spending over Ä60 on a genuine set from CMSNL?

Is it just a case that aftermarket rubbers are poor quality, or am I doing something wrong?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

arry
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:48 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go with poor quality pattern parts.
____________________
KTM 990 SMT
Royal Enfield Bullet 500
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Nobby the Bastard
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:01 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worn cush drives are the reason you crush cans....
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint 1050 ST
Keeping forums autist free since 2013.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jaffa90
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:32 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the rubber being compressed or shreading to bits?
Also are the new ones making the carrier a push fit?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Paddy.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:10 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pad out with bicycle inner tube cut offs.
____________________
Current ride : Suzuki GSXR1000 L0 - Suzuki SV650 track bike My biking history so far
Rogerborg wrote: Whole life care for a VTR full of quadraspazzed Darrryls and Shoniq'uas cost mad dollah.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

tony_d123
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:46 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Paddy said Thumbs Up
____________________
Blackpool, Lancashire
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

There is a gap of 1 year, 203 days between these two posts...

scotto75
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:14 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, itís been a few months since I posted last and have tried rubber inner tubes, but still canít find a solution to stop the problem. Iíve had two more sets wear out, where the rubber disentegrates leaving just the metal outer and inner.

Someone mentioned on another thread elsewhere that it could be caused by rear brake drag? I use the bike for commuting and in traffic I do accelerate lightly while slightly holding the rear brake to move slowly with traffic. My commute is only a few miles from home, but is this whatís causing them to wear prematurely?

Iím still not prepared to pay CMS the £50 they want for NOS Honda ones, but maybe this is my only option. I will try again with the inner tubes, this time using rubber glue and wrapping a long strip around a sprocket bolt, inserting them into the hub one at a time, and then finally bolting the sprocket back on with all four bolts in the hub.

Does anyone have any better suggestions? Have heard about using the rubber from car sidewalls?

Thanks!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

davebike
Nearly there...



Joined: 15 Nov 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:41 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fit honda Part it will last but costs
Fit cheep shit it will fail

YOU HAVE PROVED the second !!
____________________
Dave
FZ6 Fazer and C90 + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:43 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The small honda cush-drive is a bit of a design bodge, it 'isn't really a cush-drive, but four metastatic bushes in the hub, with, and this is the significant bits Pegs in them through the spocket... and NORMALLY once they are in.. they are an effoff pain in the proverbial to ever get out again....

This makes me wonder.... yes; the parts are probably not the 'best' quality.... b-u-t

You know as a young mechie under-grad I did a 3 month summer placement in a factory that made metalastic bushes..... I worked in the tool room... I designed and made an ape-proof, or at least ape-tolerant release fork for them.... complete asside, but basically the mold is two thick iron plates with holes in it; some-one puts the inner and outer metal sleeves into the mold, then the mold gets put in the injection molding machine that squirts liquid rubber between them... the mold is then heated to vulcanize the rubber... and the machine operators can stand there body-building for an hour or so doing their curls and wot-not with the next set of molds to swap in, when the first has set... well, the apes on night-shift did! But, then they get the set mold out, and they have to lift off the lid, prod the bushes with a fork that fits down the inner sleeves, give them a waggle... I said waggle... NOT try bending the whole damn mold! Yeah... BIT heavy handed them night-shift apes! And waggling the forks to release the bushes they tended to break the tines off them... and they would leave the broken stubs on my work-bench for me to find in the morning! And spend all day trying to drill out the sheared fork tines, turn down new ones in the lath and repair the fork so that they could break it on the next shift!

Ha! Brains over Brawn! I made up two-part prongs! I turned down some stainless to make the prongs, bored a 6.3mm hole down the middle then cut it to the length of a prong. Then I got a box of Mild steel M6 cap-heads, that have a rolled rather than cut thread.... and cut a 'snap-groove' in them about 1/2 mm deep just beneath the head, so that when they broker, there was 1/2inch of bolt shank left poking out the handle I would get a pair of mole-grips on, rather than have a flush stud to try and line up and drill out on the pillar drill, and then ease out with an EZ-Shear stud extractor.... and used them to screw the prongs onto the fork-handle... Absolutely astounding... the 'bending' of the prong put the stress on the sleeve, which in tern 'pulled' on the M6 screw, rather than tried to 'shear' across the thread cut on the lathe-made prong.... took the buggers a fortnight to NOT break one.... so they took it as a challenge... A-N-D one hung around at the end of shift so they could present me with the broken tool, personally, in victory.... But I detract....

The rubber would have to be REALLY crap to break down, particularly fast... it's black BTW because its loaded with 'soot' or as its called in the trade 'Tread-Stop' or 'filler powder' to bulk up the volume... and if they used an AWFUL lot of tread stop in the mix, cos its cheaper then rubber, yes, it could break down under load more easily.... BUT.... if it was that crumbly from the off, the stuff would be crumbling as you tried to fit the things, to all practical.... NOT beyond credence, B-U-T takes me back to my main suspects, which that your problem ISN'T poor parts.... per-se.

Back to that honda low-rent cush-drive design.... it's a very good bit of product design BTW, having the functionality of a more conventional paddle cush, but without the number of parts to make or assemble..... it's just NOT all that 'serviceable'.

If you look at the schematics; first off the sprocket doesn't bolt to the hub, it has four 'pegs' bolted to the sprocket, that then engage on the metastatic in the hub. Here lies the first potential problem.

The pegs have an M6 nut holding them on the sprocket at the front. On the back... there's just a couple of flats on the peg to stop them turning in the spocket when you bolt them on.... OTMH I think that itrs 8mm accross the flats, and you CAN get a spenner on the back to hold them whilst you tighten the nut on t'other end.... just not with the sprocket on the hub....

This means, that most sprocket pegs never get properly tightened, and 'wobble' on the sprocket and in the bush... which sees the bushed wobbled and ultimately chewed up in quick-time.

Aided-and-abetted, by the fact that many after-market sprockets, made down to lowest cost, often dont have a properly made rebate for the peg flats, and the sprockets themselves can be of more questionable material quality.

But, numpty assembly; the pegs get put in the bushes, or left there held in by rust; the pegs either dont get tightened up, in which case they wobble, and nbuts likely to fall off, OR they do, and the peg rotates on the sprocket, the flat gouging a path out of the rebate that's supposed to hold it, and the flat riding up on the ridge of the rebate making peg go 'cock' to the hole....

The Trick... you put the pegs in the sprocket, first, off the bike, and tighten them up just a bit over 'fingy' tight, with the sprocket on the hub... THEN, you remove sprocket... gently.... put spanner on the flats on the back of the pegs, and a spanner... note spanner, NOT a socket, or heathen forbit a ruddy pair of mole grips! AND you tighten the pegs to the sprocket, nice and carefully, and nice and tightly, WITHOUT letting the peg twist in the rebate at the back.

Now, with the pegs aligned by first fit, the sprocket should drop onto the hub nice and easy.. and the pegs shouldn't rock or wobble in the sprocket to make the bushes break down double-time.

NOW.... before you do that.... clean the effin hub... and do it again, properly.....

There's a groove around the flange the sprocket slots over, and there's supposed to be a bloomin great circlip in there to hold teh sprocket on.....

Usually covered in years of old chain oil turned to cack... this is oft missed by numpty when dissembling, and trying to pry the sprocket off the hub with assortment of long pokie things... that results in the circlip being mangled..... which is not a lot of good, if it survives suffiently for numpty to try re-fit mangled circlip... if so they often drop off or thier own accord, if numpty didn't just shrug, and decide it wasn't really needed anyway....

Pay heed, and pay careful attension around that flange. Again, low grade sprockets aren't necessarily so accurately made, AND that honda cost-cut design, the sprocket is supposed to be able to rotate 'a little' on that flange on the hub.. its that small rotary movement that gives the complience to make it a cush-drive, BUT where a more conventional paddle cush, usually has a small hole for the cush-paddle bearing on the axle and often with an actual bearing or at least phospher bush to let it rotate a bit.... the cost cut Honda design, JUST lets the (notionally!) steel sprocket rotate around that 3" boss on the (notionally!) aluminium hub... It IS NOT a particularly precision bearing, and it gets no other lube but that wot drips off the chain... in time, and no CG is a spring chicken by now.... that boss onm the hub the sprocket fits over WILL wear... A-N-D, if the circlip has been left out, A-N-D the sprocket pegs are a bit wobbly.... that speocket can chew the heck out of the boss....

SO! carefully inspect the boss for damage, and if needs 'dress' the thing with a flat file or emery paper so that the sprocket goes over it nice and neatly and smoothly, and can turn...

THEN big-spenda... splash out on a brand new sprocket circlip to hold it on the boss... whilst you are at it... get a new set of sprockets, devent ones, not cheapo monkey-metal variety, and more, sprocket pegs, and as you are splashing the cash... might as well get nice new nuts with them....

NOW. new bushes.... aught not be hammered to heck, and the inner sleeves should be a good fit on the new pegs.... new pegs should be good fit in the sprocket... and careful attention to double assembly, they should line up well, and verticle. THEN sprocket goes over the nice clean hub-boss... MIGHT if badly chewed with time, be a little loose... but a feck site better than it was... THEN a bit of grease so that sprocket can rotate that nth, and a nice new circlip to hold it all in place.... any 'wobble' in the sprocket and or the pegs into the chush drive AUGHT to be minimised.... A-N-D a well assembled Honda metalkastic hub, SHOULD be pretty much fit and forget, the cush drive rubbers usually lasting as long as the bike, the pegs if properly fitted as long as the bushes, the chain and spockets? Well pays your money, takes your chances, and pay attension to good chain-tension and lube discipline.

It should NOT be knocking out cush-drive metalastics, at THIS rate of knots... as said, they normally last 50oooo miles and twenty years or more, usually as long as the bike, they are NOT like on other bikes with a paddle cush a 'service replaceable part' they are 'if required' at over-haul only....

But, does beg suggestion, for them to be as bad as suggested... when you go to overhaul, pay VERY close attension to the hub, and the wheel bearings, and everything else.... these bushes really ARE the last thing that should 'go' bot the first,. ane certainly not with any kind of regularity.... and while shoddy low quality parts may be suspect, they are not the chief suspect here; and its likely that the breaking bushes are a sympton NOT a cause... so go find the cause... as said, most likely the diligence in fitting the sprocket pegs, and sprocket, and then the state of degradation of them bits in and around.

Best of luck..... Personally? I would be hunting out a decent second hand Chinky-CG-Copy wheel... them bushes do NOT usually like coming out the wheel, and you are as like to do more damage to the hub in the trying, than you fix in the job.. and if they DO come out easy... then odds is that the hubs already been damaged beyond, and new metalastics in shot-holes is not fixing the problem you got really... but your call.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Mark65
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 May 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:04 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I changed mine three times, twice with aftermarket from Wemoto, the fist fell apart in less than a thousand miles I think, the replacements from them were more expensive and they broke apart, finally popped for Honda, they were still in when I sold it after passing test.
Yes they were a bastard to remove, had to chisel them out ( remove the centre then use a sharp chisel down the outer bush then push edges round and they will work loose), much preferred the way the modern ones are installed.
____________________
07 Yamaha YBR125, 07 Honda CG125 , 15 CBR300R (Chocolate Crank, Deaded), 16 CB500FA, 19 Honda Forza 300
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:29 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not exactly the same but I have had this with gear lever Rubbers.

OEM Yamaha ones are £7 something. Pattern range from £1-£3. Yamaha ones last 10-20k Pattern ones last 1-2k.

OEM Parts are often priced as they are for a reason.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.


Last edited by chris-red on 12:32 - 30 Oct 2018; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

scotto75
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:30 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

i tend to use a grinding wheel on the Dremel and a bit of heat, but have ground out a few worn sets now that I probably have affected the hub holes. Not sure replacing everything with Oem stuff is cost effective if the holes are knackered.

I did replace the rear sprocket and so fitted new studs. And it was on a budget so used cheapo stuff. I will strip it back and check the tolerance and play. The circuit may well be past it, or the studs loose in the sprocket.

I guess options are...

1 - bodge it with some inner tube rubber
2 - fork out some cash on some oem ones
3 - find a newer rear wheel

You may be right Teflon about finding a better rear wheel.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

talkToTheHat
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:57 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pattern fubber parts can be *really* bad, I had the cush rubber replaced on my second GZ125, forked out extra for genuine only to find local disreputable garage had put a pattern part in when it turned into a sloppy mess within months. Only kept the bike for a few months after that so I can't say how good the genuine suzuki part was.
____________________
Bandit. does. everything.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Snod Blatter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:21 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are not alone, I fitted Washi rubbers (from Wemoto) to the rear wheel of my CB250 and they quickly looked like this:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cIq-o7_-pBs/WpvX6W7rNfI/AAAAAAAABSM/8kw934TJv-IXASdMTsw4Ly5OtknW27-TgCLcBGAs/s1600/2017-10-08-1012.jpg

The wheel is scrap now, there's nothing left of the lip on the hub that would hold the circlip in place. I would've caught it sooner but I was on a Euro tour at the time, on my way down through France I had to take an angle grinder to the sprocket bolts/pins to stop them catching on the inside of the swingarm!

I emailed Wemoto about it, they said they'd never heard a bad word about them - maybe it'd be nice if other people tell them about their own experiences.
____________________
1994 CB250, 1984 CBX250RS-E, 1989 K100RS, 1995 TRX850, 2016 Z250SL
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

scotto75
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:49 - 01 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last set I had were from Wemoto too. Wonít be buying them again.

I was talking to friend who has old Brit bikes and he said bodging with inner tubes or rubber from car tyres was fairly common. I may try and experiment first. I also have a mini lathe which a mate has lent me. Havenít used it yet but could see if itís possible to make some custom polyeurethane bushes instead, maybe?!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

virus
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:50 - 01 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id check your sprocket carrier bearing whilst your at it, if thats gone it can lead to extra load on the cush drive which will increase wear.
____________________
own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

scotto75
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:37 - 01 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thatís a good shout, thanks.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

scotto75
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:10 - 01 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

virus wrote:
Id check your sprocket carrier bearing whilst your at it, if thats gone it can lead to extra load on the cush drive which will increase wear.


The CG sprocket mounts directly onto the hub, held on by a circlip. Thereís no sprocket carrier, the only bearings are the rear wheel ones, but I will check for play between the sprocket, circlip and hub as Teflon mentions.
____________________
Honda Ď73 CB350, Ď80 CG125, Ď88 CG125, '73 Triumph T140V
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

bikenut
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:57 - 03 Nov 2018    Post subject: tyre Reply with quote

Nice maxxis tyre, you like them??

anyways how are the "bushed" cush drive coping with the chain lube you use ??

I assume the drive pins are a ok ?

The maxxis tyred wheel, can oversized bushes be obtained and the mounting holes bored out to accept them, not sure how much meat is left thou.....or machined out and a "sleeve" inserted to accept the oe bushed cush drive.....

ah well the circlip groove is missing, you must have had some warning summut was up ? and did nothing about it ? a pre europe service to include the chain and cush drive system......
____________________
nuts about bikes
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Snod Blatter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:33 - 03 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the Cheng Shin (actually not even called a Maxxis!) to be perfectly adequate for anything I could throw at it, but then on the whole I have mostly used it in bone dry, baking hot Spain and France..

The wheel is scrap, there are plenty about so I'll just get another. I did replace the cush rubbers and chain/sprockets before I left, that's why I know they were Washi items from Wemoto.. Anyway, the original cush rubbers lasted until I changed at 87.2K, at 89.2K I had the 'Shin fitted and while the wheel was out I noticed the rubbers looked worse for wear. Unfortunately I was setting off to catch the ferry that night and no other bikes were ready so I set off anyway.. After another 4K the rubbers look like you see above - utter crap. The hub was so close to breaking that I think it had maybe 20 miles left in it, it scared me more than finding out the frame had cracked in the middle!

Good trip, that Laughing
____________________
1994 CB250, 1984 CBX250RS-E, 1989 K100RS, 1995 TRX850, 2016 Z250SL
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 1 year, 35 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: enterprise (www) - Page Generation Time: 4.34 Sec - Server Load: 1.07 - MySQL Queries: 17 - CDN Objects: 46 - Page Size: 123.77 Kb