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Parliamentary Privilege

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Parliamentary Privilege Reply with quote

Well, I'm really not sure how I feel about this.

Philip Green has been named by Lord Hain as the person who has paid off under a non disclosure agreement people who it is said he insulted/bullied/racially abused.

Lord Hain said he had been contacted by someone “intimately involved” in the case and felt it was his duty to use parliamentary privilege to name Sir Philip.

Now I'm not supporting anyone who abuses his position and is able to hide it because he is rich and can bribe people but.......

1. Lord Hain has got his information from someone 'intimately involved' so is that hearsay? Green is now tainted whether it is true or false and not via a court or even the police.

2. The courts have said the Telegraph could not publish yet someone in parliament can totally over ride the highest courts just because he is in parliament.

3. Like it or not, whoever was involved paid those people a large sum of money to keep them quiet and they accepted it.

4. It seems to me if a non disclosure agreement is legal and upheld by the courts, a politician shouldn't have the safety net of being able to say whatever he wants with no comeback just because he/she is a member of parliament.

Make non disclosure agreements illegal if you want, then the rich couldn't hide but then the workers involved wouldn't get nice bit out of court settlements.

Not sure on this one as I don't think the rich should be able to buy their way out of accusations but neither should a politician name name where there is no comeback on him even if it turns out to be a complete pile of lies.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parliamentary privilege has been used previously to out certain people. I think it may have been used to out Ryan Giggs previously, though can't quite remember.

I also remember an ex MP using it to out a well known doorman who ran a security firm, for using intimidation against many people to secure business.

What I do wonder, is what would happen if PP is used to out an MP who has used their influence to have an NDA put in place? I bet arseholes would be puckering should one turn on the others... Be like a free for all.
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Last edited by Jewlio Rides Again LLB on 20:11 - 25 Oct 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "comeback" is only available to the very rich anyway as suing for libel is incredibly expensive.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

He hasn't denied it. Laughing

New Statesman says:

Quote:
But why was Hain able to do what Green’s lawyers had prevented the Daily Telegraph from doing on its front page this week? Put simply, every MP and peer has the right under parliamentary privilege to say whatever they like during parliamentary proceedings, without the risk of being sued for defamation. This privilege extends to the right of the media to report what they say.


Which sounds fair enough really.

BBC says:

Quote:
Sir Philip said in a statement on Thursday night that he and his company, Arcadia, "take accusations and grievances from employees very seriously and in the event that one is raised, it is thoroughly investigated.

"Arcadia employs more than 20,000 people and in common with many large businesses sometimes receives formal complaints from employees.

"In some cases these are settled with the agreement of all parties and their legal advisers. These settlements are confidential so I cannot comment further on them."
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also thought it was sexual harassment rather than racial?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Parliamentary Privilege Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
neither should a politician name name where there is no comeback on him even if it turns out to be a complete pile of lies.


Hm. While there is no comeback, it seems to be the case that when this happens, there is a great deal of publicity, which has a value.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 25 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really interested in who it was or what he did, more the principle of parliamentary privilege and when it becomes an abuse of that privilege.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 00:34 - 27 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I'm not really interested in who it was or what he did, more the principle of parliamentary privilege and when it becomes an abuse of that privilege.


We do have to consider that he was elected to represent and speak for his constituents. Free speech in a Parliament is more important than the public reputation of a particular high profile individual.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 27 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I'm not really interested in who it was or what he did, more the principle of parliamentary privilege and when it becomes an abuse of that privilege.


The thing is that parliamentary privilege is only an abuse when it's "wrong" in some way. Whether it's wrong is decided by the person's fellows in parliament.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 01:15 - 27 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in two minds about this. My first thought was that "Parliamentary privilege" was an archaic principle (from 1689, as it turns out) only valid before the days when Parliament was instantly televised to the masses, but apparently it always meant the public and media had a right to report what was said in Parliament. Then I thought a non-disclosure pay-out must be a legal, mutually-advantageous agreement, but on the other hand perhaps the abused parties knew they wouldn't win in court against a rich man's lawyers so they grudgingly accepted what little recompense they could get. I'm still not sure what to make of this.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 02:01 - 27 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:


We do have to consider that he was elected to represent and speak for his constituents.


Was. Now in the House of Lords though.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 09:03 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out that the law firm acting for the Telegraph also pay Hain.

But it's only a coincidence that Hain has said what he has, honest Guv.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It also turns out that Hain was almost sent to jail for stealing, and didn't like the guilty until innocent scenario that naming him had. Laughing
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that although I'm fine with Hain naming Green, I hate them both.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't have thought that this would have besmirched Greene's reputation any worse than the stealing all the value out of the bhs pension scheme debacle did.
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 31 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I wouldn't have thought that this would have besmirched Greene's reputation any worse than the stealing all the value out of the bhs pension scheme debacle did.


Well he obviously thought it would, or he wouldn't have spent all that money on the gagging order/non disclosure agreement in the first place
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 31 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem here for me is that Hain decided he knew better than the judges who had decided that Green could have an injunction.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 31 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

panrider_uk wrote:
The problem here for me is that Hain decided he knew better than the judges who had decided that Green could have an injunction.

This. Exactly.

(BTW, how in the name of all that's holy, can it cost £500K to obtain an injunction?)
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 31 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

panrider_uk wrote:
The problem here for me is that Hain decided he knew better than the judges who had decided that Green could have an injunction.


An injunction that he would get, but you wouldn't. If you get arrested for some kind of sexual offence you won't have the sort of privileges Green gets.
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 01:51 - 01 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
panrider_uk wrote:
The problem here for me is that Hain decided he knew better than the judges who had decided that Green could have an injunction.


An injunction that he would get, but you wouldn't. If you get arrested for some kind of sexual offence you won't have the sort of privileges Green gets.


Irrelevant.
He's just completely bypassed the British legal system with impunity.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 01 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

panrider_uk wrote:

Irrelevant.
He's just completely bypassed the British legal system with impunity.


So do the courts.
Why is that a problem in this context?
I would of thought that someone buying favours from them would be looked down on.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 01 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
panrider_uk wrote:

Irrelevant.
He's just completely bypassed the British legal system with impunity.


So do the courts.
Why is that a problem in this context?
I would of thought that someone buying favours from them would be looked down on.


How do the courts bypass the legal system? They are the legal system.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 01 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do the parties who obtained cash for silence have to give it back?

That prostitute who shagged Trump signed a gagging order type thing then blabbed all over the place for even more dosh. Should she give all the money back?

There are loads of nasty Bosses and managers who abuse their position, but there are loads of nice ones too who get shafted by shitty staff who do not meet the standards required, but say they are abused because someone raised their voices at them.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 08 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Injunction dropped or something so it's all coming out Pass the popcorn

'Sir Philip Green paid a female employee more than £1m to keep quiet after she accused him of kissing and groping her'
Like that Italian woman Harvey Weinstein did the same thing to.

'It reported a black male executive also received £1m after Sir Philip said he was "throwing spears in the jungle".'
Shocked

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47179344
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