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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Any programmers on BCF? Reply with quote

I see hints of it every now and again on here, but never anything concrete.

So who on BCF works in any kind of programming job, or even just enjoys it as a hobby?

For me, it's both. Paid to do it and spend a lot of free time doing it too, because it's fun in a nerdy creative kind of way.

My first job was doing websites but I can do Android apps and some simple Windows Forms stuff too. Have also made a couple of physics sims using C++. I'm dabbling a bit in Wechat mini-apps now too, but they aren't really a thing outside of China so won't be surprised if nobody here has heard of them.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
just enjoys it as a hobby

We Found 2 Clips With "Some Simple Windows Forms Stuff"
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spent 25 years as a software developer, got burnt out and tired of it. Am currently a network and infrastructure technician in the NHS, so most of my coding now is powershell and Excel macros.
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

25+ years as a Software Developer, all sorts of languages and platforms, latterly been working in Angular, Java, PHP and .NET. But will have a crack at most anything Very Happy

Been working at a huge IT services company for yonks, but about to move to a tiny agency, just for a break from the bullshit.

Hobby programming is limited to Python on my Pi!
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 CLS
20 PRINT "hellow rold"
30 PRINT "no not that"
40 PRINT "hello world"
50 PRINT "ther thas betterer"
60 REM going to terlit
70 END
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil Hans wrote:
25+ years as a Software Developer, all sorts of languages and platforms, latterly been working in Angular, Java, PHP and .NET. But will have a crack at most anything Very Happy

Been working at a huge IT services company for yonks, but about to move to a tiny agency, just for a break from the bullshit.

Hobby programming is limited to Python on my Pi!


My work's all in the C#/.Net world, plus all the webby bits for making web applications, so HTML, javascript and all that. Also shifting over to Typescript now as I'm learning React for fun.

I tried Angular but hated it. Made a little website for myself using Angular2 a little while ago, then got a new laptop, after which the setup for new Angular projects kept failing at the very first step. Massive pain in the arse, got bored of staring at a command line and waiting for failed CLI builds and other bullshit, so I shifted over to React and it's been a vastly more pleasant process so far. Never thought I'd be a fan of something made by Facebook in, they've always been a trashy social media and advertising company to me.

The wechat apps I mentioned, they're created using a very similar setup to Angular 2, but are much much nicer to work with. There's even a dedicated IDE specially for them.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Programming for 25 years, professionally three jobs in 15 years.

First job out of college, wrote a server-side web app framework in .net, tuned for data binding on the front end, using AJAX for single page apps before JSON was a thing. Part of the app involved writing a compiler for a subset of C# to handle the data binding in a type-checked way. The web app was effectively type-checked ahead of deployment, so you could be fairly sure it would work, and written in a reactive style which is much more common these days but almost unheard of back in the day. There's more I could say about how state was managed - a GCed micro heap containing just the session data, that let you basically load up the session and evaluate bindings to debug it. It was a lot more productive than Rails for its niche, never mind ASP.NET.

The compiler thing lead me to my second job. I was an engineer at Borland for 7 years, working on the Delphi compiler. Implemented things like anonymous methods with variable capture, wrote the standard generics library, implemented effectively the equivalent of java.lang.reflect / System.Reflection but for Delphi, a native language, including things like virtual method interception - capturing arguments on the stack so that e.g. test mocking libraries could assert on arguments. Also extended the debugger to understand x64, the extra registers and addressing modes, the REX prefix etc.

Getting somewhat burned out working on a dying product like Delphi lead me to quitting, doing a motorcycle tour across Europe, relaxing for a few months, before I hear from the CTO of a startup, where I've been for nearly 6 years, currently chief architect, heading up tech strategy across 3 teams of developers. We're hitting a scaling crunch right now, and I'm rushing around putting in place a variety of interfaces and abstractions to help us measure and improve performance, all the while trying to find the most strategic ways to navigate our product roadmap - i.e. figure out which bits of the technical jigsaw let us get the biggest wins on the product side sooner, and with less technical debt.

In my spare time, I fiddle with a little bit of machine learning, but my appetite for undirected programming these days is pretty low.
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P.
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 28 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot do anything of use, I can write random 'do this on the xbox controller' scripts for my CronusMax.

I do firewalls and ting for work. So, a different line and I'd not consider programming because to me it lacks the investigation and fun factor. Laughing
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 03:49 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:
Programming for 25 years, professionally three jobs in 15 years.

First job out of college, wrote a server-side web app framework in .net, tuned for data binding on the front end, using AJAX for single page apps before JSON was a thing. Part of the app involved writing a compiler for a subset of C# to handle the data binding in a type-checked way. The web app was effectively type-checked ahead of deployment, so you could be fairly sure it would work, and written in a reactive style which is much more common these days but almost unheard of back in the day. There's more I could say about how state was managed - a GCed micro heap containing just the session data, that let you basically load up the session and evaluate bindings to debug it. It was a lot more productive than Rails for its niche, never mind ASP.NET.

The compiler thing lead me to my second job. I was an engineer at Borland for 7 years, working on the Delphi compiler. Implemented things like anonymous methods with variable capture, wrote the standard generics library, implemented effectively the equivalent of java.lang.reflect / System.Reflection but for Delphi, a native language, including things like virtual method interception - capturing arguments on the stack so that e.g. test mocking libraries could assert on arguments. Also extended the debugger to understand x64, the extra registers and addressing modes, the REX prefix etc.



Pretty cool Thumbs Up

I think I've missed the boat with that kind of programming. It seems mostly to be the domain of people who got into the industry at least a decade earlier.

I mean it surely still exists all over the place, but to get one's foot in the door in programmng the only real option is web stuff and apps nowadays. Still fun though.

What's the employment scene like in the UK these days? I started doing this while in China and will be here for the foreseeable future. Every now and again I have a peek on LinkedIn and see some pretty awesome looking jobs going back in the UK. Is competition pretty fierce?
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 09:28 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started off doing vbscript to automate some windows tasks. Moved on to doing ruby/python and bash for a devops role.

I then move onto a full time python dev role, I've now move back towards a more devops/platform role so mostly doing things like ansible, kubernetes and docker and bash.

I've done a tiny bit of C for fun on some arduino stuff. Mostly hello world type stuff, LED on/off etc.
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noobRider
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
I tried Angular but hated it. ...

Me too, but still having to use it for work. VueJS is great from the little I've done with it.

I'm also 30+ years programming: Perl, PHP, Python, webby stuff and .NET C#.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't but my son does.

He designs (creates?) 3D models for games. Dragons and orcs and people and the like, it's bloody impressive to see.

Stuff like this...

https://i.redditmedia.com/q5tlYRSYHaTgtwR-XYGNeWejPRTHE0xNVzLoaJeNQMs.jpg?w=320&s=20257889a0981eace9368a634a01dfb7

And thats my full knowledge of computer programming Cool
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bioinformatician. This basically involves manipulating and making sense of very large DNA/RNA sequencing data files to find mutations associated with cancer, or look at how genes are expressed differently in cancer etc etc.

It's a situation where it has become very cheap to generate loads of data, but the analysis is a fairly new field so there aren't many, and certainly no good off the shelf commercial methods for doing it. Instead its a load of open source tools that run on the Linux command line, with custom programs for formatting the data to get it to work right or ask new questions. I do all the data processing of the massive files on a Linux super computer.

Downstream of that there is a load of statistics, most of which is written primarily in a statistics language called R, and some in Python. Again, a load of open source tools which are used in a command line like environment (although there are some R GUIs which help you keep track of your variables etc).

As such, I do a bit of Python and C and a boat load of BASH, awk and R.
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did COBOL programming back in the day.

A smattering of BASIC, Fortran, Z80 assembler and Pascal

Now I usea product called Webdev (and Windev) for doing stuff with our access control system
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only C, Java and Python. I hate Python, I wouldn't use it out of choice. No semi-colon, uses indents weirdly, [triggered].

DrDonnyBrago wrote:
I'm a bioinformatician. This basically involves manipulating and making sense of very large DNA/RNA sequencing data files to find mutations associated with cancer, or look at how genes are expressed differently in cancer etc etc.

It's a situation where it has become very cheap to generate loads of data, but the analysis is a fairly new field so there aren't many, and certainly no good off the shelf commercial methods for doing it. Instead its a load of open source tools that run on the Linux command line, with custom programs for formatting the data to get it to work right or ask new questions. I do all the data processing of the massive files on a Linux super computer.

Downstream of that there is a load of statistics, most of which is written primarily in a statistics language called R, and some in Python. Again, a load of open source tools which are used in a command line like environment (although there are some R GUIs which help you keep track of your variables etc).

As such, I do a bit of Python and C and a boat load of BASH, awk and R.


So in summary you are the Daily Mail? Wink
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
What's the employment scene like in the UK these days? I started doing this while in China and will be here for the foreseeable future. Every now and again I have a peek on LinkedIn and see some pretty awesome looking jobs going back in the UK. Is competition pretty fierce?


I personally don't think so, not for good programmers. We've been in hiring mode for the past year - just about filling up our open positions now - and good people are pretty scarce. Last time I checked, there's a ceiling somewhere around 85k currently in London for senior developers, which is probably limiting mobility. Snap (albeit going down the tubes), Facebook, the new Google site - there's a number of decent options that are putting upward pressure on salaries.

Outside of the headline silicon valley companies, decent salaries can be had in finance, and interesting jobs can be had in startups.

If you're a journeyman, there are fewer options, of course.
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King29
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
just enjoys it as a hobby

We Found 2 Clips With "Some Simple Windows Forms Stuff"


We Found 14 Clips With "Lord Percy"
We Found 1,383 Clips With "Ste"
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Re: Any programmers on BCF? Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
So who on BCF works in any kind of programming job, or even just enjoys it as a hobby?


I've done a great deal, mostly in a Systems role, mostly on database and other backend systems.
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winz
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PostPosted: 23:56 - 29 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 90% of my work is WordPress dev at the moment. I'd like to learn something else, but running a small business I like to try and spend my free time away from the screen.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 03:37 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many "25+ years" responses Shocked. When I made this thread I expected one or two generic replies. Definitely interesting to see there are several folk here who've been in it for so long.

barrkel wrote:


I personally don't think so, not for good programmers..


So what qualities does a good programmer need?

I've seen a lot of commentary on this but might as well get some more input on BCF too. Anything to help this relative noob steer himself in the right direction.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 03:43 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
10 Mention "China"
20 GoTo 10

Laughing


public bool TriggerWarning()
{
return page.contains("mpd72 CPT") && page.contains("China");
}
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 04:23 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrDonnyBrago wrote:
I'm a bioinformatician. This basically involves manipulating and making sense of very large DNA/RNA sequencing data files to find mutations associated with cancer, or look at how genes are expressed differently in cancer etc etc.


Does that still involve vaginas? Or are you not a vagina wizard any more?
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

temeluchus wrote:
DrDonnyBrago wrote:
I'm a bioinformatician. This basically involves manipulating and making sense of very large DNA/RNA sequencing data files to find mutations associated with cancer, or look at how genes are expressed differently in cancer etc etc.


Does that still involve vaginas? Or are you not a vagina wizard any more?



Alas, the vaginas are no more. Laughing
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 30 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
So what qualities does a good programmer need?

You'll get as many answers to this as there are companies with different problems to solve.

When we look for a new developer, we look for programming ability and knowledge of common practices.

We have a pure algorithmic problem involving some geometry that admits a number of different solutions with different computational complexity. We look for people with whom you can communicate technical solutions, and who understand complexity theory - big-O analysis of algorithms. We don't necessarily need peopl to come up with the leap of insight to solve the problem, but being able to understand recursion, arrays and loops - basic stuff really - in the context of a solution to a problem is important. Big-O is important to us because we deal with a lot of data and the wrong approach can mean the difference between something taking 10 seconds and 10 days.

We also look for things like ability to write meaningful tests, basic familiarity with unit testing frameworks. Fluency in writing code, working an IDE / editor / tools is also a strong signal.

We don't look for specific competence in any given framework, language or domain. We think smart people can learn another environment easily. People who specialize in a particular general-purpose technology are rather more suspect, for us, especially since we have a mix of C++, Java, Ruby, Javascript - specialists are a little less useful.

Other organizations have different problems. They may have a significant investment in enterprise Java stuff, or specific front end technologists, and they have a pressing need to hire people who can hit the ground running. With those companies, specific knowledge of technologies gives you a head-start - a kind of CV buzzword bingo.

The more senior a position you go for, the more track record of achievement matters. Having evidence from previous jobs that you solved problems and saved money or created lots of value, or changed organizational direction in a beneficial or strategic way. You should look for opportunities to do this earlier in your career to make a difference.

PS: I should add that having domain knowledge + programming ability is a great combo and is probably an easier route to a valuable position, since you don't need to be in the top tier of ability in any single domain - you can be OK in a number different areas, and become unique that way. It does limit the number of positions you can apply for, but you have less competition too. Also, if you ever want to do a startup, having a background in the target industry is essential. Most SV startups are targeted at what young people need because that's all that programmers in college know about. Startups that have a higher probability of success, but not as much growth potential, are usually started by people in their 30s to 50s, who've built up a network in an industry, who know the problems of the industry, and can talk in those terms to their future sales prospects.
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