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Capital Gains Tax

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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Capital Gains Tax Reply with quote
Probably a stupid question, but if you make significant gains on the sale of shares: how does HMRC actually find out that you did so they know to chin you for tax?

EDIT:

Should clarify context. I know people from other forums who made a lot of money from the GameStop share increase (not myself, I went in for the memes and made a loss, position below). These guys are going on about how they're going to be buying houses, cars, etc but think they don't need to pay tax. I am not a grass but I was wondering if there is some kind of system of checks and measures to stop people getting away with it.

https://i.imgur.com/mwhBVy2.png[/img]
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Last edited by Fat Angry Scotsman on 14:13 - 15 Feb 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
That'll be tax evasion so I'm out.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
That'll be tax evasion so I'm out.


Not asking about how to evade anything. Just wondering if there's some kind of system behind it all.
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
You have to declare them which means signing yourself up for the misery of self-assessment.
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fuller answer which should help:
https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/report-and-pay-capital-gains-tax
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Fuller answer which should help:
https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/report-and-pay-capital-gains-tax


So basically it amounts to reliance on the honour of the person to declare correctly? Seems a bit shit that people can get away with ignoring it, especially in todays world where all transactions are digital.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat_Angry_Scotsman wrote:
arry wrote:
Fuller answer which should help:
https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/report-and-pay-capital-gains-tax


So basically it amounts to reliance on the honour of the person to declare correctly? Seems a bit shit that people can get away with ignoring it, especially in todays world where all transactions are digital.


Yes, people need to self-assess. The risk you run is if HMRC decide to audit either you or perhaps even your broker and they find out you diddled them.

Tax fraud isn't a slap on the wrist type of crime and will cause a nightmare in the future when it comes to credit and whatnot.
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arry
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat_Angry_Scotsman wrote:


So basically it amounts to reliance on the honour of the person to declare correctly? Seems a bit shit that people can get away with ignoring it, especially in todays world where all transactions are digital.


Not sure; I've always declared them because I'm obviously a good boy. One should imagine that financial institutions have an obligation to shop you for tax evasion if you don't, what with Financial Crime Act 2017 in full effect which is supposed to bring charges against financial institutions that facilitate tax evasion, but whether there's any mechanics under the hood of that one I don't know for sure.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat_Angry_Scotsman wrote:
So basically it amounts to reliance on the honour of the person to declare correctly? Seems a bit shit that people can get away with ignoring it, especially in todays world where all transactions are digital.

HMRC has all sorts of ways of tracking undeclared gains and I expect profits from share sales would be right up there. As far as I know you can't sell shares anonymously, and you can't do it down the pub for cash in hand, so you're going to leave a data trail behind you when you do so. I believe stockbrokers etc have to provide HMRC with details of all this stuff too, so I think you'd be on thin ice not to declare any such income. Banks are legally obliged to report possible money-laundering, and large sums suddenly appearing in your account could potentially fall into that category. Whether all this applies to the Gamestop brigade, and whether they've got some way of circumventing normal HMRCF-monitored routes of buying and selling investments I couldn't say.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
henrywilson wrote:
I understand, but why is that so important to you? I mean, those people made some money, and if they don't want to pay taxes, why do you care about that?


Because the revenue has to come from somewhere and when others don't pay their tax, I have to pay even more.

They are stealing MY money.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
henrywilson wrote:
I understand, but why is that so important to you? I mean, those people made some money, and if they don't want to pay taxes, why do you care about that?


Mate for FY 22/23 I am going to pay at least (could be more depending on bonus):

£23,477.27 in income tax on basic salary,
£5,638.84 in national insurance contributions,
£7,475.00 in income tax on dividends.

The government is going to fucking skull me for at least £36,591.11 next year and I am going to get nothing back for it. I don't even use the NHS because I have full private medical cover.

If the bastards can draw blood from me because I am legit with taxes, I want them to draw blood from cunts trying to dodge and duck taxes.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
henrywilson wrote:
I understand, but why is that so important to you? I mean, those people made some money, and if they don't want to pay taxes, why do you care about that?


Mate for FY 22/23 I am going to pay at least (could be more depending on bonus):

£23,477.27 in income tax on basic salary,
£5,638.84 in national insurance contributions,
£7,475.00 in income tax on dividends.

The government is going to fucking skull me for at least £36,591.11 next year and I am going to get nothing back for it. I don't even use the NHS because I have full private medical cover.

If the bastards can draw blood from me because I am legit with taxes, I want them to draw blood from cunts trying to dodge and duck taxes.


If you are paying that much in tax you clearly have plenty of income so no fucks given here.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I personally think that we should all pay the same percentage tax. If it was say 10% you would only pay £10 from your £100 pay and £4,000 from your £40,000 pay packet. So the richer does pay more. I'm not wealthy by any means, but it would be fare. Capital gains tax and inheritance tax should be zero as taxes will have been ripped out of those assets at the time of purchase or with the maintenance of the assets. Very simple, very easy, no loopholes and everyone can follow it easily.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
Capital gains tax and inheritance tax should be zero as taxes will have been ripped out of those assets at the time of purchase or with the maintenance of the assets. Very simple, very easy, no loopholes and everyone can follow it easily.


What tax is paid on shares at the point of purchase?
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
henrywilson wrote:
I understand, but why is that so important to you? I mean, those people made some money, and if they don't want to pay taxes, why do you care about that?


Mate for FY 22/23 I am going to pay at least (could be more depending on bonus):

£23,477.27 in income tax on basic salary,
£5,638.84 in national insurance contributions,
£7,475.00 in income tax on dividends.

The government is going to fucking skull me for at least £36,591.11 next year and I am going to get nothing back for it. I don't even use the NHS because I have full private medical cover.

If the bastards can draw blood from me because I am legit with taxes, I want them to draw blood from cunts trying to dodge and duck taxes.


Exactly. Bold of you to post figures as a huge amount of people are brainwashed into thinking the people earning £50k-£150k are the problem, not the oligarchs hoarding millions/billions.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Skudd wrote:
Capital gains tax and inheritance tax should be zero as taxes will have been ripped out of those assets at the time of purchase or with the maintenance of the assets. Very simple, very easy, no loopholes and everyone can follow it easily.


What tax is paid on shares at the point of purchase?


I'm not sure, but I'm sure I paid some sort of tax when I bought shares, but if none at the moment a simple VAT like other products could be paid. Very simple really.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:

What tax is paid on shares at the point of purchase?


I'm not sure, but I'm sure I paid some sort of tax when I bought shares, but if none at the moment a simple VAT like other products could be paid. Very simple really.


VAT is paid on goods and services. Shares are neither.

What you paid was a form of stamp duty. At 1.5% thats not really a lot.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:


Exactly. Bold of you to post figures as a huge amount of people are brainwashed into thinking the people earning £50k-£150k are the problem, not the oligarchs hoarding millions/billions.


Which can only be taxed when the the value is realised (the shares their value is based on are sold) at which time capital gains tax comes into play, or when they die, when inheritance tax comes into play.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:


VAT is paid on goods and services. Shares are neither.

What you paid was a form of stamp duty. At 1.5% thats not really a lot.


Stamp duty is a form of tax.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
Exactly. Bold of you to post figures as a huge amount of people are brainwashed into thinking the people earning £50k-£150k are the problem, not the oligarchs hoarding millions/billions.


I don't understand why you're not allowed to be moderately successful in the UK, especially here in Scotland. Unless you're working class (which mostly doesn't exist anymore in Scotland anyway) or pretending to be working class then you'll be called a Tory, rich cunt or whatever.

I make in the very low six figures, pay all my taxes due and still get shite from cunts who are just, well: jealous. The upper-end of the middle class gets absolutely hammered, since I make over £100,000.00 I lose my personal allowance.

To the people who give the usual pish talk of "well you make enough so no fucks given", how would you like it if the government took £4 off you just because you had a tenner? You wouldn't be happy.

The £50 - 150k demographic are hammered hardest in taxes. Why? The people earning less pay less as a percentage and the people who pay more have other ways to pay themselves, are normally business owners and use their business to pay for things, have more tax-efficient wrappers and ways to hide wealth, etc.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
The Artist wrote:


Exactly. Bold of you to post figures as a huge amount of people are brainwashed into thinking the people earning £50k-£150k are the problem, not the oligarchs hoarding millions/billions.


Which can only be taxed when the the value is realised (the shares their value is based on are sold) at which time capital gains tax comes into play, or when they die, when inheritance tax comes into play.


You pay income tax on dividends derived from the shares in the meantime before selling them as well. Dividends paid after tax was paid on the profit that made the dividend possible.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


To the people who give the usual pish talk of "well you make enough so no fucks given", how would you like it if the government took £4 off you just because you had a tenner? You wouldn't be happy.
.


These people are usually the ones who keep warm by putting their hands in other peoples pockets.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:



To the people who give the usual pish talk of "well you make enough so no fucks given", how would you like it if the government took £4 off you just because you had a tenner? You wouldn't be happy.



If I was in the above £40k a year rate I wouldn't give a fuck about that. I'm a good socialist.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 04 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
As I've said elsewhere. I think tax returns should be a matter of public record. Then you can look up what your boss, MP or co-worker is earning and paying tax on.
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